4 ms·

Would you wish this kind of work on members of your family or friends? If not who do you think should be doing these jobs?

fwdpropaganda 9y ago
I'm not the person you were addressing, but I'll bite anyway. The members of my family have dreams, but any free time they have they spend it on Facebook. I don't WISH these jobs on them, but this is exactly the skills they have.
adventured 9y ago
Who exactly doesn't have family & friends that have done exactly these types of jobs at some point? Are we talking about the gold lined streets of Norway, as the 0.1% example that is supposed to represent the real condition of humanity among the other 7.6 billion people? I've never known someone that hasn't done these types of basic work jobs at some point their lives. That's not an exaggeration. It can be working a marina boating dock during the summer, pumping gas for minimum wage at 20 years old. It can be cutting yards & doing basic property maintenance work for $15 / hour at 25 years old. It can be a cashier at Walmart for $11 or $12 / hour. It can be working at a liquor store, doing cashier work, filling shelves, running product into the cooler, and vacuuming before going home at night. There are millions of basic jobs like that need to be done.
dogma1138 9y ago
Would this job be better if they were paid £22,000? £30,000? £45,000? Regardless of the pay it would always be a shitty job because it’s hard manual labor. There are worse jobs for sure but there is virtually no plausible amount of money that would make this job a good job other than the premise that any job is better than no job. And we are at fault here we want cheap stuff delivered ASAP even in the middle of the night.
- walshemj 9y ago
  For the UK its not a bad wage looking locally to me its often 7.50 or 8 an hour. And Amazon may not be the bets employer they are far better than JD sports! https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/29/140-jd-sports-staff-hospital-warehouse-rochdale https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/29/140-jd-spor... When you have members of the conservative government making noises about the owner of JD sports not being a fit and proper person to run a public company you know there is some really bad shit happening
- polskibus 9y ago
  It would be better if they were paid more. They would be able to afford reskilling or work 1/5 less and reduce stress on their body.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    How much more? Retraining isn’t a factor of money especially in the UK it’s a factor of will and time.
    - polskibus 9y ago
      Not if your are exhausted after work or if your working hours prevent you from attending courses, for example night shifts leaving you tired at the morning. Try doing warehouse job for a week, see how much willpower you will have left. Also time is sometimes convertible to money, esp. if you have children. You don't have much time left if you have to work long hours, but if you can pay someone to do cleaning, etc.for you, then you are directly buying time.
- danbruc 9y ago
  [...] but there is virtually no plausible amount of money that would make this job a good job [...] I think I would happily do that if it paid well enough so that I only had to work, say, three months or less a year.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    There are pretty hard seasonal jobs that can pay 50-60K for a season (3-4 months), e.g seasonal fishing. Even in the UK you can find fishing jobs that pay £1500-2000 a week during peak season which means you can earn what Amazon pays in 2.5 months but it’s much harder than sorting items at a warehouse.
    - walshemj 9y ago
      Its almost the most dangerous job in the UK though
      - dogma1138 9y ago
        Not in the top 10 (well the list only goes to 8 but number 8 is already only 1 deaths per year) in the UK. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/07/deadliest-jobs-uk-much-pay/amp/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/07/deadliest-job...
        walshemj 9y ago
        Its the death rate % I was talking about. According to the industry's trade body, Seafish, there are 126 deaths per 100,000 fishermen each year; "many times higher" than any other sector of UK industry http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-13947723 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-13947723
        dogma1138 9y ago
        I don't get where the BBC gets those numbers, unless there are only like 5000 fishermen in the UK which would somehow make the 126 deaths per 100,000 sound plausible. http://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/pdf/ag-fatal-1617.pdf http://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/pdf/ag-fatal-1617.pdf Also please note the the vast majority of injuries and fatalities seems to be in farming rather than fishing those statistics are unified but the causes are broken down. The individual deaths and causes are also listed http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/fatalities/2016-17.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/fatalities/2016-17.htm I couldn't find one that related directly to fishing. Don't get me wrong fishing is dangerous but I haven't seen anything that would indicate that it's one of the most dangerous jobs in the UK.
- IkmoIkmo 9y ago
  I think it's important to recognise what it means if this was a 45k paying job. And I say job not in the sense of a 1-man employment contract, but job as in 'set of tasks that needs doing', with 45k as the budget. What it means is that you could pay two people 22k, plus some overhead, to do this 'job' or 'set of tasks'. And you could let them alternate a day and evening schedule, such that they can interact with other human beings, their friends, family. And you could require each to be 10% less productive, such that they can have a normal break where they can interact with other human beings. The takeaway from this article wasn't that the remuneration was poor. It's typical for a menial job and not any worse than what we ever had in the past. The takeaway was that all the other work conditions are designed in an inhuman (not inhumane, but inhuman) manner, working like a robot with robots. His complaints aren't a lack of money, that's evident from the fact he lives with his parents and barely does anything fun despite having the money. His complaints were a lack of human interaction, having a shitty rhythm, sleeping away his off-time, not seeing his friends, no longer talking to his parents, working with robots. That can be fixed, if we budgeted even just 30k for this set of tasks. That doesn't mean he gets paid more per year.
sweeneyrod 9y ago
My father worked in a mattress factory, which I imagine was fairly similar. Perhaps Amazon is worse in some ways (lack of human contact) but I bet it's a lot safer and has less heavy lifting. I'm sure he's glad he wasn't stuck there for decades, but I don't think he thought it was nightmarishly terrible at the time. And even the dullest-seeming jobs are usually enjoyed by a a few people.
kenny87 9y ago
My 50 year old mother in-law had this job. After the big recession she lost her job and was unemployed for several years. So compared to the alternative (and that is the key point!) I am absolutely happy she had that job.
varcharlie 9y ago
If I was a father and my son was between the ages of 18-26, with no college degree and on government benefits (I’m taking a guess at the subjects age here) this is EXACTLY the type of work I’d want him to do. Something that teaches him the value of hard work and discipline. Let’s face it, there are likely hundreds, possibly thousands of people employed at that amazon warehouse. Many of them have the same job as he does. I don’t see every single one of them complaining or writing blogs about how their job ruins their life. This man CHOSE to take an overnight shift, which he admitted does not ever change. He works 4 days a week. Does he realize how common sleep problems is? Many people who work 5-6 days a week Have sleep problems as well. Sometimes I only get a couple hours of sleep, maybe 4 or 3, but I still get up when my alarm goes off and head in to work. This is part of being a responsible adult. I’m not sure when his 10 hour shift begins or ends, but seeing as he’s only getting 4 hours of sleep he has plenty of time to look for a new job if he isent satisfied with his current employment situation. Amazon tells it’s warehouse employees what is expected of them on day one of training and many employees research a new employer before actually going to work for them or accepting a job. I’m sorry but as a fellow millennial, one who has also done jobs which could be complained about (standing on my feet for 14 hours working a double shift, bussing all my tables and cleaning my entire section before being given permission to go home or being told to clean more if the manager doesn’t think it’s clean enough) it pisses me off to see such entitlement. When I was in the situation, I worked 6 or 7 days a week and my days off were never consistent. I could easily work 12 days straight and I had coworkers who hadn’t had a day off in years because they work two jobs. I’m sorry but this guys sob stories about not being able to enjoy video games, only getting 4 hours of sleep sometimes, not being able to take small breaks when he’s on the clock, and not being able to quit because he will get sanctioned and lose his government benefits is absolute horse shit.5$3 guy works 4 days a week. If he spent 3 days a week looking for a new job, making the job search his second job, he could easily find another job... but chances are he’d Find things to complain about at that job too. Chances are that for someone with his qualifications, that amazon job is probably the best job in his area. That job isn’t for everyone. This guy thinks that standing on his feet is unhealthy, yet the new trend is for people working 9-5s to use standing desks since sitting down can affect blood circulation and lead to heart disease or vascular disease. I don’t normally comment here, but felt obligated.
- 9y ago

fwdpropaganda 9y ago

I'm not the person you were addressing, but I'll bite anyway. The members of my family have dreams, but any free time they have they spend it on Facebook. I don't WISH these jobs on them, but this is exactly the skills they have.

adventured 9y ago

Who exactly doesn't have family & friends that have done exactly these types of jobs at some point? Are we talking about the gold lined streets of Norway, as the 0.1% example that is supposed to represent the real condition of humanity among the other 7.6 billion people? I've never known someone that hasn't done these types of basic work jobs at some point their lives. That's not an exaggeration. It can be working a marina boating dock during the summer, pumping gas for minimum wage at 20 years old. It can be cutting yards & doing basic property maintenance work for $15 / hour at 25 years old. It can be a cashier at Walmart for $11 or $12 / hour. It can be working at a liquor store, doing cashier work, filling shelves, running product into the cooler, and vacuuming before going home at night. There are millions of basic jobs like that need to be done.

dogma1138 9y ago

Would this job be better if they were paid £22,000? £30,000? £45,000? Regardless of the pay it would always be a shitty job because it’s hard manual labor. There are worse jobs for sure but there is virtually no plausible amount of money that would make this job a good job other than the premise that any job is better than no job. And we are at fault here we want cheap stuff delivered ASAP even in the middle of the night.

walshemj 9y ago
For the UK its not a bad wage looking locally to me its often 7.50 or 8 an hour. And Amazon may not be the bets employer they are far better than JD sports! https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/29/140-jd-sports-staff-hospital-warehouse-rochdale https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/29/140-jd-spor... When you have members of the conservative government making noises about the owner of JD sports not being a fit and proper person to run a public company you know there is some really bad shit happening
polskibus 9y ago
It would be better if they were paid more. They would be able to afford reskilling or work 1/5 less and reduce stress on their body.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  How much more? Retraining isn’t a factor of money especially in the UK it’s a factor of will and time.
  - polskibus 9y ago
    Not if your are exhausted after work or if your working hours prevent you from attending courses, for example night shifts leaving you tired at the morning. Try doing warehouse job for a week, see how much willpower you will have left. Also time is sometimes convertible to money, esp. if you have children. You don't have much time left if you have to work long hours, but if you can pay someone to do cleaning, etc.for you, then you are directly buying time.
danbruc 9y ago
[...] but there is virtually no plausible amount of money that would make this job a good job [...] I think I would happily do that if it paid well enough so that I only had to work, say, three months or less a year.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  There are pretty hard seasonal jobs that can pay 50-60K for a season (3-4 months), e.g seasonal fishing. Even in the UK you can find fishing jobs that pay £1500-2000 a week during peak season which means you can earn what Amazon pays in 2.5 months but it’s much harder than sorting items at a warehouse.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    Its almost the most dangerous job in the UK though
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      Not in the top 10 (well the list only goes to 8 but number 8 is already only 1 deaths per year) in the UK. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/07/deadliest-jobs-uk-much-pay/amp/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/07/deadliest-job...
      - walshemj 9y ago
        Its the death rate % I was talking about. According to the industry's trade body, Seafish, there are 126 deaths per 100,000 fishermen each year; "many times higher" than any other sector of UK industry http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-13947723 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-13947723
        dogma1138 9y ago
        I don't get where the BBC gets those numbers, unless there are only like 5000 fishermen in the UK which would somehow make the 126 deaths per 100,000 sound plausible. http://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/pdf/ag-fatal-1617.pdf http://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/pdf/ag-fatal-1617.pdf Also please note the the vast majority of injuries and fatalities seems to be in farming rather than fishing those statistics are unified but the causes are broken down. The individual deaths and causes are also listed http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/fatalities/2016-17.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/fatalities/2016-17.htm I couldn't find one that related directly to fishing. Don't get me wrong fishing is dangerous but I haven't seen anything that would indicate that it's one of the most dangerous jobs in the UK.
IkmoIkmo 9y ago
I think it's important to recognise what it means if this was a 45k paying job. And I say job not in the sense of a 1-man employment contract, but job as in 'set of tasks that needs doing', with 45k as the budget. What it means is that you could pay two people 22k, plus some overhead, to do this 'job' or 'set of tasks'. And you could let them alternate a day and evening schedule, such that they can interact with other human beings, their friends, family. And you could require each to be 10% less productive, such that they can have a normal break where they can interact with other human beings. The takeaway from this article wasn't that the remuneration was poor. It's typical for a menial job and not any worse than what we ever had in the past. The takeaway was that all the other work conditions are designed in an inhuman (not inhumane, but inhuman) manner, working like a robot with robots. His complaints aren't a lack of money, that's evident from the fact he lives with his parents and barely does anything fun despite having the money. His complaints were a lack of human interaction, having a shitty rhythm, sleeping away his off-time, not seeing his friends, no longer talking to his parents, working with robots. That can be fixed, if we budgeted even just 30k for this set of tasks. That doesn't mean he gets paid more per year.

sweeneyrod 9y ago

My father worked in a mattress factory, which I imagine was fairly similar. Perhaps Amazon is worse in some ways (lack of human contact) but I bet it's a lot safer and has less heavy lifting. I'm sure he's glad he wasn't stuck there for decades, but I don't think he thought it was nightmarishly terrible at the time. And even the dullest-seeming jobs are usually enjoyed by a a few people.

kenny87 9y ago

My 50 year old mother in-law had this job. After the big recession she lost her job and was unemployed for several years. So compared to the alternative (and that is the key point!) I am absolutely happy she had that job.

varcharlie 9y ago

If I was a father and my son was between the ages of 18-26, with no college degree and on government benefits (I’m taking a guess at the subjects age here) this is EXACTLY the type of work I’d want him to do. Something that teaches him the value of hard work and discipline. Let’s face it, there are likely hundreds, possibly thousands of people employed at that amazon warehouse. Many of them have the same job as he does. I don’t see every single one of them complaining or writing blogs about how their job ruins their life. This man CHOSE to take an overnight shift, which he admitted does not ever change. He works 4 days a week. Does he realize how common sleep problems is? Many people who work 5-6 days a week Have sleep problems as well. Sometimes I only get a couple hours of sleep, maybe 4 or 3, but I still get up when my alarm goes off and head in to work. This is part of being a responsible adult. I’m not sure when his 10 hour shift begins or ends, but seeing as he’s only getting 4 hours of sleep he has plenty of time to look for a new job if he isent satisfied with his current employment situation. Amazon tells it’s warehouse employees what is expected of them on day one of training and many employees research a new employer before actually going to work for them or accepting a job. I’m sorry but as a fellow millennial, one who has also done jobs which could be complained about (standing on my feet for 14 hours working a double shift, bussing all my tables and cleaning my entire section before being given permission to go home or being told to clean more if the manager doesn’t think it’s clean enough) it pisses me off to see such entitlement. When I was in the situation, I worked 6 or 7 days a week and my days off were never consistent. I could easily work 12 days straight and I had coworkers who hadn’t had a day off in years because they work two jobs. I’m sorry but this guys sob stories about not being able to enjoy video games, only getting 4 hours of sleep sometimes, not being able to take small breaks when he’s on the clock, and not being able to quit because he will get sanctioned and lose his government benefits is absolute horse shit.5$3 guy works 4 days a week. If he spent 3 days a week looking for a new job, making the job search his second job, he could easily find another job... but chances are he’d Find things to complain about at that job too. Chances are that for someone with his qualifications, that amazon job is probably the best job in his area. That job isn’t for everyone. This guy thinks that standing on his feet is unhealthy, yet the new trend is for people working 9-5s to use standing desks since sitting down can affect blood circulation and lead to heart disease or vascular disease. I don’t normally comment here, but felt obligated.

9y ago