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The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items an hour

DougN7 9y ago
My father always taught me you earn money with your back (unskilled labor), your mind (skills) or your money (investments). Everyone can do unskilled labor so supply and demand dictates it will pay less and obviously be more physically demanding. Almost everyone can improver their situation by gaining skills/education. It’s a truism because everyone won’t.
blubb-fish 9y ago
I stopped buying from Amazon about a year ago for the following reasons: - too many fake reviews - unclear geographic origin of sellers (twice accidentally had to wait couple weeks for items to arrive from China) - too many counterfeit products - obnoxious Prime services being imposed on me - Prime Video is so far below Netflix in comparison - regarding any aspect - it's not even funny - many stories of Amazon bullying customers - too many items that have been obviously previously returned and been badly repacked - greedy fees are existential threats to publishing houses - Amazon abuses its staff --- and now the interesting insight. getting rid of Amazon is not even close to as difficult or uncomfortable as banning Facebook from one's life or trying to buy only fair trade. it was super simple and not in the slightest an inconvenience. I use idealo.de for comparing prices and order straight from any of the other hundreds of shops on there.
UncleEntity 9y ago
Kind of makes me wonder how many "items" I shifted an hour when my job was to pull the newspapers off the press in (IIRC) 50 "item" bundles? For a lot less money too, basically made enough for gas to get back and forth to community college and some beer/pot now and again -- ah, to be young again...
machiaweliczny 9y ago
He doesn't have to work there. Why not leave?
- asdjasldkjkljd 9y ago
  I think you're overestimating the mobility of someone who's willing to take a job for 18k a year.
- slater 9y ago
  A stunningly ignorant reply.
  - bcit-cst 9y ago
    "Let them eat cake ?"
    - fullshark 9y ago
      “Why doesn’t he learn to code?”
  - albertgoeswoof 9y ago
    But he really doesn’t have to work there. He lives with his parents and doesn’t spend any of the money he earns anyway.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - specializeded 9y ago
      You all really need to learn to read the article before spewing your shite eveywhere, there is literally an entire paragraph dedicated to why.
      - albertgoeswoof 9y ago
        I read the article, he’s claiming he’s stuck because he won’t get JSA if he leaves. But he has no outgoings, no costs or anything. He’s saving 1k every month! So he can quit anytime he likes, and do anything he wants
maxxxxx 9y ago
When we celebrate entrepreneurs like Bezos we should also keep in mind that this success comes on the backs of a lot of people who work in bad conditions. These people are invisible to us. Amazon could easily afford to hire more people for the workload but instead they choose to squeeze everything out of existing employees.
- baxtr 9y ago
  True point. But then again, we as consumers demand everything to become cheaper and cheaper so that we can buy more stuff we probably don’t need. You could argue that he’s just fulfilling our desire within current labor laws.
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    It's not a true point because Amazon could not easily choose to hire more people for the workload, given the assumption that people will choose to shop wherever they get the lowest prices. The assumption seems valid considering the domination of Walmart and Asda in the past few decades. The margins on retail are tiny as it is, so I highly doubt Amazon could easily hire more people.
- d4rti 9y ago
  Silicon Valley is more like the Gilded Age capitalists than they tell themselves.
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    Except that Amazon is a Seattle company.
    - smnrchrds 9y ago
      Silicon Valley is commonly used as a figure of speech to refer to the entire tech industry. Similar to how Wall Street is used to refer to the financial industry, or Hollywood to the movie industry, or Washington to the entire federal government.
ggregoire 9y ago
> I scan the items the trucks bring in from distributors and place them into the right cart for the robots to take to the correct place in the warehouse. I'm actually surprised his job has not been replaced by robots yet.
- dbcurtis 9y ago
  From what I see going on in logistics robotics, I give it two years for anything shipped in box with a bar code, especially if incoming freight is palletized.
- krapp 9y ago
  >I'm actually surprised his job has not been replaced by robots yet. Meat robots are still cheaper.
baxtr 9y ago
What a sad story. I’ve been thinking about quitting amazon because of these people. However, it’s just so convenient that I find myself still ordering stuff there. Maybe, I should reconsider.
albertgoeswoof 9y ago
In other words, if you do a job that requires no education, training or experience, you get paid a low wage. This guys comes across as really entitled, he’s 24 years old, lives at home and doesn’t spend any of his money anyway. He even claims he’s “stuck” because he’ll lose his benefits if he quits. Why am I supposed to feel sorry for him? His life is pretty sweet.
- jameskilton 9y ago
  Why do you immediately think you're supposed to feel sorry for him? Yet at the same time you come across as entitled enough to insult this guy for sharing his story. Wise words I learned long ago: "Never pass up a chance to keep your mouth shut".
- foepys 9y ago
  > His life is pretty sweet. No, it is absolutely not. I cannot see how being forced to live with one's mother, unable to quit the current job to get higher education is "sweet". It's things like these that keep poor people poor and make rich people richer. What happens if he wants to start a family? It's impossible to responsibly raise children in those conditions if he doesn't do it with someone that is a lot better off than him. Social mobility is quite hard for men, so the chance is very slim that his children will not grow up poor, too.
  - grawprog 9y ago
    No his life sucks. But he's a whiny piece of shit. He doesn't have to live with his mother, he doesn't have to accept government benefits and he doesn't have to work at Amazon. He just doesn't want to try so fuck him. I work under harder conditions, more hours a week for about the same money as this asshole. The difference is I don't cry like a fucking baby to the internet about how hard my life is. He just sounds fucking pathetic. It's called dealing with your shit. Everyone needs to fucking do it if you can't that's your problem. Everything he said was just a fucking excuse as to why he can't make his life how he wants
  - tzakrajs 9y ago
    But he is saving money when many people are only making it paycheck to paycheck. That luxury is not afforded to all.
Libturd 9y ago
this guy and the shut-ins on this site think he has it hard? LOOOOL.
ersiees 9y ago
(i) I think as pointed out in the last paragraph, the state is as guilty as Amazon in letting something like this happen. If Amazon would not bring workers to the legal/market limit. There would be another company to pick at here. (ii) No corporation cares about being ethical correct. Companies only purpose is to generate (more) profits and this can be even more easily (without moral burdens) achieved if (like in big corporations) there are a lot of layers of abstraction between the decision makers view and the workers view. (iii) I think if Amazon would be a nice company something like this would not happen.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  * I think if Amazon would be a nice company something like this would not happen.* Or they would be out competed by another company that isn't so nice.
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  > the state is as guilty as Amazon in letting something like this happen. Higher wages and regulations mean fewer jobs. With automation the way it is and is progressing, more laws and regulations are counterproductive.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    That's not what a previous tory chancellor thought he though that subsiding low-quality Mc Jobs with taxpayers money was immoral.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    We have had a minimum wage in the UK for a long time now and it hasn't resulted in the increased unemployment many predicted.
bluedino 9y ago
>> now I work such anti-social hours, it’s difficult to meet up. As your friends finish school and find jobs, some end up on different shifts and different schedules. Chances are you have things in common with your new co-workers, socialize with them.
- albertgoeswoof 9y ago
  In this case he does work with robots so I’m not sure this really applies...
ktzar 9y ago
The minimum salary in the UK is roughly £12k/year... He's still making 50% more than the lowest paid employees.
- polshaw 9y ago
  No, it's not.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    The Median is £22,044 before tax
- _Wintermute 9y ago
  I think the HN/US crowd might have warped opinions on typical earnings. I've seen (and applied to) graduate jobs at £16,000 a year, the median in the UK is somewhere around £20,000 last time I checked.
grawprog 9y ago
Ok...so...he described what it's like to have a job. And... I'm not understanding the point of this. It's too bad his job sucks and he's discovered working takes your free time and joy for life. I will take my tiny violin and play him some Fallout Boy and Greenday covers while he cries for me.
payne92 9y ago
Virtually every industry has jobs like this, and many of those jobs are more physically demanding and much more dangerous. (And in some cases, pay much less). People seem happy to complain about warehouse working conditions and pay, yet give no thought to where their packages, vegetables, fruits, grains, fish, gas, oil, shrubs, houses, lumber, etc. come from.
yorby 9y ago
sometimes I order stuff from china and I get it in less than 1 week even if it feels like I don't even pay for shipping, why don't they make more warehouses overseas? (For example, I ordered a cheap webcam on Aliexpress for $2.50 including shipping... I got it in about 5 days)
mrtksn 9y ago
I was a bit curious about the background of the person in the article so i did some Googling and it looks like he studied game development at South Essex College. I find this interesting, is game development less paid or hard to get employed kind if a career? This Amazon job must be a gig to finance him his actual career ambitions I would guess. It's fairly common for people to work at low quality jobs that have flexibility to finance their projects or education.
- albertgoeswoof 9y ago
  Game development is often attended by people who like to play games but for whatever reason don’t make the jump to making games. Probably because it’s not easy and takes years of studying and dedication to get good at, ironically unlike playing games
- frou_dh 9y ago
  You underestimate the volume of young people bumbling through all the game-related college programs. I bet only a minority end up with sufficient skill/drive to release a real game or have a good industry career.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    And gave dev forces you to work a lot longer than 4 ten hour shifts a week.
- IkmoIkmo 9y ago
  I've had a little exposure to the game dev industry, and I've rarely met anyone who actually studied game development. Kind of in the same way that nobody goes to university to study web development. People come from different backgrounds, either academic or self-taught, and end up in web/game dev. Game dev ends up, I feel, attracting a lot of people who couldn't self-start. i.e. those with no programming or art skills, who then study a huge mix of 2d, 3d, art, programming, sound studio stuff, marketing, corporate finance, and basically everything at the 101/intro level. Kind of become a jack of all trades, master of none. That's great at the higher (10+ years of experience) level, where you're catapulted into a directing role that steers many different departments. (running the factory) But at the entry level it just means you're doing specialised low-level work without having a specialised skill. (putting nuts on bolts). I'm generalising of course, there's probably a number of excellent programs attracting excellent talent. But I think by and large game dev studies (particularly the pioneer programs around 2006-2014) probably aren't the funnel through which talent flows or is created in the industry. As for less paid, yeah in general it's typically less paid historically. I'd say it falls within the category of the art industry. Typically that means low median wages and high levels of earnings disparity.
sixtypoundhound 9y ago
To be honest, it sounds like he's mildly depressed. Or has lost the will to keep looking for a better deal. Having been in the same place, I am reluctant to place the blame on Amazon for his state - if you don't like your job, look for another one. THAT is very much on you. I'm not unsympathetic - I've been in some real hell holes and utter bullshit situations... but remember your agency, man!
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mgiannopoulos 9y ago
Not many articles on people working tough jobs in mines, farms, etc. What's so special about Amazon's warehouses?
- droopyEyelids 9y ago
  Amazon markets itself as a futuristic company that is making people's lives better. A coal mine sure doesn't, and it's not as surprising to find out they run off the blood of the miners. For most of us, it's a big change in thinking to look at the Amazon website as an interface to exploitation & human misery.
- walshemj 9y ago
  Its an American company :-) there are far worse warehouse jobs in the Uk. Though as Jeff owns the WP I thought they would have given him a bye, the Guardian publish a sleazy piece offering justification of the hacks caught up in the NI hacking scandal for example.
indubitable 9y ago
According to the article he's putting away 1000 pounds, or about $1400 per month. Let's imagine he puts all his money into an index fund and they continue hitting about 8%. He's a millionaire before his 40th birthday, if he started when he was 18. And that's if he never receives a raise or finds a better paying job. And at that point he's pulling in $80k a year in growth/interest alone. That's not an easy 22 years, but on the other hand that this sort of life outcome for somebody who's job is basically moving boxes is possible seems like huge success of our economic system. And that's in the worst case scenario of him never finding more productive work.
- zenlikethat 9y ago
  Except that he needs to pay to, y'know, eat and have a place to live and all that other life stuff. I'm assuming he doesn't want to live with his parents forever, even if they're cutting him a deal. 8% is likely an unrealistic growth rate anyway.
  - indubitable 9y ago
    The $1400 was after he paid for eating/shelter. He's paying his parents $280 for rent - something he could do similarly by hooking up with some roommates. It's not glorious, yet he has the ability within his grasp to have an economic state of life that I suspect north of 90% of 40 year olds would trade their lives for. For a man who moves boxes for a living! Here [1] is a calculator for investment fund returns. They're quite insane. Pick the absolute worst period for returns bust to bust 2000 to 2010 and you're still looking at a positive return. 1990 to present and you're looking at 10%. 2000 to present, going through both busts, is 6%. 2010 to present is 14%. 8% is not unreasonable - let's say it accounts for him possibly getting a raise sometime in the next 22 years. [1] - https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/
    - zenlikethat 9y ago
      So just live with your parents for 20 years, hope the market goes well, and you'll be a millionaire? Looking at postings around the area where the worker lives, an apartment is about 4x the cost of what's he's paying for both rent AND food (https://essex.craigslist.co.uk/d/flats-housing-for-rent/search/apa https://essex.craigslist.co.uk/d/flats-housing-for-rent/sear...). That's not even accounting for unexpected medical expenses, trying to start a family, etc., and all the other expensive stuff in life. I'm not even all that sympathetic to the worker in the article, but "just park all of your money in an index fund and you'll be a millionaire" is quite naive.
juicyfroot 9y ago
Then don't work there. That's 18k you would not get sitting on your ass.
pmoriarty 9y ago
Anyone interested in this should listen to this RadioLab episode where a reporter goes to work as a picker at a fulfillment warehouse: https://www.radiolab.org/story/brown-box/ https://www.radiolab.org/story/brown-box/
paulus_magnus2 9y ago
£0.04 per item shipped. (220 working days x 8h) as a customer i'm happy to pay another 4p per item shipped to have workers only process 125 items/h. But capitalism doesn't work this way. Bezos would just pocket the 4p and keep squeezing the workers to the max.
- razorunreal 9y ago
  Pretty sure he's not the only worker involved in shipping your item.
- thatthatis 9y ago
  Per item received. He's a receiver. He opens boxes, scans the barcode, and puts the item into a box behind him. 15 seconds per touch is a good rate, but it's not breakneck for this work. Without side work, you could realistically do these in 5-10 seconds.
bigbrooklyn 9y ago
I work in an amazon FC (in the US), and not in any leadership roles. I recently moved to a new state, and I found amazon. I applied and within about 2 weeks I was working. I'm about 5 months in and it's actually decent. > If I’ve learned anything from doing this job, it’s that money can’t replace time. I work four nights a week in an Amazon warehouse near my home Is this a bad thing ? I'd rather do 4x 10 hour days, than 5x 8 hour days. I can work my ass off for 4 days and sleep for day 5, and still have 2 days off. My co-workers seem to like this as well. > I have to put away each item in 15 seconds or less, and get through 250 in an hour, or I’ll be given a warning by a manager. Stepping away from my station to, say, get a drink of water can have a big impact on my performance. Amazon has a lot of fulfillment centers. Customer obsession is #1. In order for customers to get their package on time, amazon needs metrics. A lot of associates work alone or in a small team, also their is minimal supervision. Metrics allow for managers and corporate to know many things, including whether employees are "on-task". The required rate changes in different departments. If his FC has robotics, then they deal with small items. 250 small items an hour isn't bad. I'm not too sure about his building but I have all day to make rate. At the end of the day your average rate per hour should be >= X. > During my half-hour breaks I rush downstairs to have something to eat. It’s stressful – and it definitely affects my health, standing up for hours on end. I worry I may pass out if I don’t rest during my meal breaks. I’ve lost a lot of weight since I started. You don't need to rush, at least where I work. It's actually a benefit if you take your time. You have 30 minutes from the time you clock out, and it's about a 45 second walk to break rooms. If you feel like your going to pass out, you should not be working in a warehouse. It can be a workout environment, depending on where you are placed. However, you will be standing anytime your not on break, and that can sometimes get annoying. Amazon provides amazing time-off flexibility through an employee portal. If I ever feel too tired to work, and I have time-off available, I can just go tell my manager, HEY IM LEAVING. He says ok (or don't leave, I need you!), and the ball is in your court. Amazon provides benefits from day 1, not usually found in warehouses. They also provide "Variable Pay Compensation". Every month you get a BONUS ! Provided you did not have unscheduled time off, you will get extra money based on your hours. Peak times just doubles how much you receive. I barely worked in December, and my vcp for that month is just under $300. You don't need to do anything special, its always just added to your payout. One employee can never tell the whole story (including me). Different buildings with different people in all of them.
grawprog 9y ago
My comments on this article seem pretty heavily disagreed with but here's my point. He doesn't want to work at amazon, he doesn't want to lose his benefits. Yet he spends almost no money in rent and does nothing so likely has a good amount of money saved up. He enjoys painting figurines and such things. Why not try and find a way to market that skill? It can certainly be done. Even while keeping his amazon job. Find ways to make money outside work. He clearly has the time and money to set some goals and put a plan into action. If he's so unhappy maybe do that? He works 4 days a week. I work 6 days and manage to fo visit my friend once a week, cook proper meals for myself, program, play music and have hobbies I enjoy doing. Many of the things he said were straight up 'I can't be bothered to do this so my life sucks' That is entirely his choice. Sometimes you have to take chances in life if you're unhappy. He should have enough money saved up to be able to live off it for a while. If he's too scared to lose his benefits and pursue what he wants that's his choice. I would respect him far more if this was a story about how he quit amazon, tried to change his life and failed than this. Even failure is more respectable because at least he tried to take his life into his own hands. This is just a whiny rant about how he's too scared to live life. It's his life, it's up to him to do what he wants.

My father always taught me you earn money with your back (unskilled labor), your mind (skills) or your money (investments). Everyone can do unskilled labor so supply and demand dictates it will pay less and obviously be more physically demanding. Almost everyone can improver their situation by gaining skills/education. It’s a truism because everyone won’t.

blubb-fish 9y ago

I stopped buying from Amazon about a year ago for the following reasons: - too many fake reviews - unclear geographic origin of sellers (twice accidentally had to wait couple weeks for items to arrive from China) - too many counterfeit products - obnoxious Prime services being imposed on me - Prime Video is so far below Netflix in comparison - regarding any aspect - it's not even funny - many stories of Amazon bullying customers - too many items that have been obviously previously returned and been badly repacked - greedy fees are existential threats to publishing houses - Amazon abuses its staff --- and now the interesting insight. getting rid of Amazon is not even close to as difficult or uncomfortable as banning Facebook from one's life or trying to buy only fair trade. it was super simple and not in the slightest an inconvenience. I use idealo.de for comparing prices and order straight from any of the other hundreds of shops on there.

UncleEntity 9y ago

Kind of makes me wonder how many "items" I shifted an hour when my job was to pull the newspapers off the press in (IIRC) 50 "item" bundles? For a lot less money too, basically made enough for gas to get back and forth to community college and some beer/pot now and again -- ah, to be young again...

machiaweliczny 9y ago

He doesn't have to work there. Why not leave?

asdjasldkjkljd 9y ago
I think you're overestimating the mobility of someone who's willing to take a job for 18k a year.
slater 9y ago
A stunningly ignorant reply.
- bcit-cst 9y ago
  "Let them eat cake ?"
  - fullshark 9y ago
    “Why doesn’t he learn to code?”
- albertgoeswoof 9y ago
  But he really doesn’t have to work there. He lives with his parents and doesn’t spend any of the money he earns anyway.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - specializeded 9y ago
    You all really need to learn to read the article before spewing your shite eveywhere, there is literally an entire paragraph dedicated to why.
    - albertgoeswoof 9y ago
      I read the article, he’s claiming he’s stuck because he won’t get JSA if he leaves. But he has no outgoings, no costs or anything. He’s saving 1k every month! So he can quit anytime he likes, and do anything he wants

maxxxxx 9y ago

When we celebrate entrepreneurs like Bezos we should also keep in mind that this success comes on the backs of a lot of people who work in bad conditions. These people are invisible to us. Amazon could easily afford to hire more people for the workload but instead they choose to squeeze everything out of existing employees.

baxtr 9y ago
True point. But then again, we as consumers demand everything to become cheaper and cheaper so that we can buy more stuff we probably don’t need. You could argue that he’s just fulfilling our desire within current labor laws.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  It's not a true point because Amazon could not easily choose to hire more people for the workload, given the assumption that people will choose to shop wherever they get the lowest prices. The assumption seems valid considering the domination of Walmart and Asda in the past few decades. The margins on retail are tiny as it is, so I highly doubt Amazon could easily hire more people.
d4rti 9y ago
Silicon Valley is more like the Gilded Age capitalists than they tell themselves.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  Except that Amazon is a Seattle company.
  - smnrchrds 9y ago
    Silicon Valley is commonly used as a figure of speech to refer to the entire tech industry. Similar to how Wall Street is used to refer to the financial industry, or Hollywood to the movie industry, or Washington to the entire federal government.

ggregoire 9y ago

> I scan the items the trucks bring in from distributors and place them into the right cart for the robots to take to the correct place in the warehouse. I'm actually surprised his job has not been replaced by robots yet.

dbcurtis 9y ago
From what I see going on in logistics robotics, I give it two years for anything shipped in box with a bar code, especially if incoming freight is palletized.
krapp 9y ago
>I'm actually surprised his job has not been replaced by robots yet. Meat robots are still cheaper.

baxtr 9y ago

What a sad story. I’ve been thinking about quitting amazon because of these people. However, it’s just so convenient that I find myself still ordering stuff there. Maybe, I should reconsider.

albertgoeswoof 9y ago

In other words, if you do a job that requires no education, training or experience, you get paid a low wage. This guys comes across as really entitled, he’s 24 years old, lives at home and doesn’t spend any of his money anyway. He even claims he’s “stuck” because he’ll lose his benefits if he quits. Why am I supposed to feel sorry for him? His life is pretty sweet.

jameskilton 9y ago
Why do you immediately think you're supposed to feel sorry for him? Yet at the same time you come across as entitled enough to insult this guy for sharing his story. Wise words I learned long ago: "Never pass up a chance to keep your mouth shut".
foepys 9y ago
> His life is pretty sweet. No, it is absolutely not. I cannot see how being forced to live with one's mother, unable to quit the current job to get higher education is "sweet". It's things like these that keep poor people poor and make rich people richer. What happens if he wants to start a family? It's impossible to responsibly raise children in those conditions if he doesn't do it with someone that is a lot better off than him. Social mobility is quite hard for men, so the chance is very slim that his children will not grow up poor, too.
- grawprog 9y ago
  No his life sucks. But he's a whiny piece of shit. He doesn't have to live with his mother, he doesn't have to accept government benefits and he doesn't have to work at Amazon. He just doesn't want to try so fuck him. I work under harder conditions, more hours a week for about the same money as this asshole. The difference is I don't cry like a fucking baby to the internet about how hard my life is. He just sounds fucking pathetic. It's called dealing with your shit. Everyone needs to fucking do it if you can't that's your problem. Everything he said was just a fucking excuse as to why he can't make his life how he wants
- tzakrajs 9y ago
  But he is saving money when many people are only making it paycheck to paycheck. That luxury is not afforded to all.

Libturd 9y ago

this guy and the shut-ins on this site think he has it hard? LOOOOL.

ersiees 9y ago

(i) I think as pointed out in the last paragraph, the state is as guilty as Amazon in letting something like this happen. If Amazon would not bring workers to the legal/market limit. There would be another company to pick at here. (ii) No corporation cares about being ethical correct. Companies only purpose is to generate (more) profits and this can be even more easily (without moral burdens) achieved if (like in big corporations) there are a lot of layers of abstraction between the decision makers view and the workers view. (iii) I think if Amazon would be a nice company something like this would not happen.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
* I think if Amazon would be a nice company something like this would not happen.* Or they would be out competed by another company that isn't so nice.
jimmywanger 9y ago
> the state is as guilty as Amazon in letting something like this happen. Higher wages and regulations mean fewer jobs. With automation the way it is and is progressing, more laws and regulations are counterproductive.
- walshemj 9y ago
  That's not what a previous tory chancellor thought he though that subsiding low-quality Mc Jobs with taxpayers money was immoral.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  We have had a minimum wage in the UK for a long time now and it hasn't resulted in the increased unemployment many predicted.

bluedino 9y ago

>> now I work such anti-social hours, it’s difficult to meet up. As your friends finish school and find jobs, some end up on different shifts and different schedules. Chances are you have things in common with your new co-workers, socialize with them.

albertgoeswoof 9y ago
In this case he does work with robots so I’m not sure this really applies...

ktzar 9y ago

The minimum salary in the UK is roughly £12k/year... He's still making 50% more than the lowest paid employees.

polshaw 9y ago
No, it's not.
- walshemj 9y ago
  The Median is £22,044 before tax
_Wintermute 9y ago
I think the HN/US crowd might have warped opinions on typical earnings. I've seen (and applied to) graduate jobs at £16,000 a year, the median in the UK is somewhere around £20,000 last time I checked.

grawprog 9y ago

Ok...so...he described what it's like to have a job. And... I'm not understanding the point of this. It's too bad his job sucks and he's discovered working takes your free time and joy for life. I will take my tiny violin and play him some Fallout Boy and Greenday covers while he cries for me.

payne92 9y ago

Virtually every industry has jobs like this, and many of those jobs are more physically demanding and much more dangerous. (And in some cases, pay much less). People seem happy to complain about warehouse working conditions and pay, yet give no thought to where their packages, vegetables, fruits, grains, fish, gas, oil, shrubs, houses, lumber, etc. come from.

yorby 9y ago

sometimes I order stuff from china and I get it in less than 1 week even if it feels like I don't even pay for shipping, why don't they make more warehouses overseas? (For example, I ordered a cheap webcam on Aliexpress for $2.50 including shipping... I got it in about 5 days)

mrtksn 9y ago

I was a bit curious about the background of the person in the article so i did some Googling and it looks like he studied game development at South Essex College. I find this interesting, is game development less paid or hard to get employed kind if a career? This Amazon job must be a gig to finance him his actual career ambitions I would guess. It's fairly common for people to work at low quality jobs that have flexibility to finance their projects or education.

albertgoeswoof 9y ago
Game development is often attended by people who like to play games but for whatever reason don’t make the jump to making games. Probably because it’s not easy and takes years of studying and dedication to get good at, ironically unlike playing games
frou_dh 9y ago
You underestimate the volume of young people bumbling through all the game-related college programs. I bet only a minority end up with sufficient skill/drive to release a real game or have a good industry career.
- walshemj 9y ago
  And gave dev forces you to work a lot longer than 4 ten hour shifts a week.
IkmoIkmo 9y ago
I've had a little exposure to the game dev industry, and I've rarely met anyone who actually studied game development. Kind of in the same way that nobody goes to university to study web development. People come from different backgrounds, either academic or self-taught, and end up in web/game dev. Game dev ends up, I feel, attracting a lot of people who couldn't self-start. i.e. those with no programming or art skills, who then study a huge mix of 2d, 3d, art, programming, sound studio stuff, marketing, corporate finance, and basically everything at the 101/intro level. Kind of become a jack of all trades, master of none. That's great at the higher (10+ years of experience) level, where you're catapulted into a directing role that steers many different departments. (running the factory) But at the entry level it just means you're doing specialised low-level work without having a specialised skill. (putting nuts on bolts). I'm generalising of course, there's probably a number of excellent programs attracting excellent talent. But I think by and large game dev studies (particularly the pioneer programs around 2006-2014) probably aren't the funnel through which talent flows or is created in the industry. As for less paid, yeah in general it's typically less paid historically. I'd say it falls within the category of the art industry. Typically that means low median wages and high levels of earnings disparity.

sixtypoundhound 9y ago

To be honest, it sounds like he's mildly depressed. Or has lost the will to keep looking for a better deal. Having been in the same place, I am reluctant to place the blame on Amazon for his state - if you don't like your job, look for another one. THAT is very much on you. I'm not unsympathetic - I've been in some real hell holes and utter bullshit situations... but remember your agency, man!

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mgiannopoulos 9y ago

Not many articles on people working tough jobs in mines, farms, etc. What's so special about Amazon's warehouses?

droopyEyelids 9y ago
Amazon markets itself as a futuristic company that is making people's lives better. A coal mine sure doesn't, and it's not as surprising to find out they run off the blood of the miners. For most of us, it's a big change in thinking to look at the Amazon website as an interface to exploitation & human misery.
walshemj 9y ago
Its an American company :-) there are far worse warehouse jobs in the Uk. Though as Jeff owns the WP I thought they would have given him a bye, the Guardian publish a sleazy piece offering justification of the hacks caught up in the NI hacking scandal for example.

indubitable 9y ago

According to the article he's putting away 1000 pounds, or about $1400 per month. Let's imagine he puts all his money into an index fund and they continue hitting about 8%. He's a millionaire before his 40th birthday, if he started when he was 18. And that's if he never receives a raise or finds a better paying job. And at that point he's pulling in $80k a year in growth/interest alone. That's not an easy 22 years, but on the other hand that this sort of life outcome for somebody who's job is basically moving boxes is possible seems like huge success of our economic system. And that's in the worst case scenario of him never finding more productive work.

zenlikethat 9y ago
Except that he needs to pay to, y'know, eat and have a place to live and all that other life stuff. I'm assuming he doesn't want to live with his parents forever, even if they're cutting him a deal. 8% is likely an unrealistic growth rate anyway.
- indubitable 9y ago
  The $1400 was after he paid for eating/shelter. He's paying his parents $280 for rent - something he could do similarly by hooking up with some roommates. It's not glorious, yet he has the ability within his grasp to have an economic state of life that I suspect north of 90% of 40 year olds would trade their lives for. For a man who moves boxes for a living! Here [1] is a calculator for investment fund returns. They're quite insane. Pick the absolute worst period for returns bust to bust 2000 to 2010 and you're still looking at a positive return. 1990 to present and you're looking at 10%. 2000 to present, going through both busts, is 6%. 2010 to present is 14%. 8% is not unreasonable - let's say it accounts for him possibly getting a raise sometime in the next 22 years. [1] - https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/
  - zenlikethat 9y ago
    So just live with your parents for 20 years, hope the market goes well, and you'll be a millionaire? Looking at postings around the area where the worker lives, an apartment is about 4x the cost of what's he's paying for both rent AND food (https://essex.craigslist.co.uk/d/flats-housing-for-rent/search/apa https://essex.craigslist.co.uk/d/flats-housing-for-rent/sear...). That's not even accounting for unexpected medical expenses, trying to start a family, etc., and all the other expensive stuff in life. I'm not even all that sympathetic to the worker in the article, but "just park all of your money in an index fund and you'll be a millionaire" is quite naive.

juicyfroot 9y ago

Then don't work there. That's 18k you would not get sitting on your ass.

pmoriarty 9y ago

Anyone interested in this should listen to this RadioLab episode where a reporter goes to work as a picker at a fulfillment warehouse: https://www.radiolab.org/story/brown-box/ https://www.radiolab.org/story/brown-box/

paulus_magnus2 9y ago

£0.04 per item shipped. (220 working days x 8h) as a customer i'm happy to pay another 4p per item shipped to have workers only process 125 items/h. But capitalism doesn't work this way. Bezos would just pocket the 4p and keep squeezing the workers to the max.

razorunreal 9y ago
Pretty sure he's not the only worker involved in shipping your item.
thatthatis 9y ago
Per item received. He's a receiver. He opens boxes, scans the barcode, and puts the item into a box behind him. 15 seconds per touch is a good rate, but it's not breakneck for this work. Without side work, you could realistically do these in 5-10 seconds.

bigbrooklyn 9y ago

I work in an amazon FC (in the US), and not in any leadership roles. I recently moved to a new state, and I found amazon. I applied and within about 2 weeks I was working. I'm about 5 months in and it's actually decent. > If I’ve learned anything from doing this job, it’s that money can’t replace time. I work four nights a week in an Amazon warehouse near my home Is this a bad thing ? I'd rather do 4x 10 hour days, than 5x 8 hour days. I can work my ass off for 4 days and sleep for day 5, and still have 2 days off. My co-workers seem to like this as well. > I have to put away each item in 15 seconds or less, and get through 250 in an hour, or I’ll be given a warning by a manager. Stepping away from my station to, say, get a drink of water can have a big impact on my performance. Amazon has a lot of fulfillment centers. Customer obsession is #1. In order for customers to get their package on time, amazon needs metrics. A lot of associates work alone or in a small team, also their is minimal supervision. Metrics allow for managers and corporate to know many things, including whether employees are "on-task". The required rate changes in different departments. If his FC has robotics, then they deal with small items. 250 small items an hour isn't bad. I'm not too sure about his building but I have all day to make rate. At the end of the day your average rate per hour should be >= X. > During my half-hour breaks I rush downstairs to have something to eat. It’s stressful – and it definitely affects my health, standing up for hours on end. I worry I may pass out if I don’t rest during my meal breaks. I’ve lost a lot of weight since I started. You don't need to rush, at least where I work. It's actually a benefit if you take your time. You have 30 minutes from the time you clock out, and it's about a 45 second walk to break rooms. If you feel like your going to pass out, you should not be working in a warehouse. It can be a workout environment, depending on where you are placed. However, you will be standing anytime your not on break, and that can sometimes get annoying. Amazon provides amazing time-off flexibility through an employee portal. If I ever feel too tired to work, and I have time-off available, I can just go tell my manager, HEY IM LEAVING. He says ok (or don't leave, I need you!), and the ball is in your court. Amazon provides benefits from day 1, not usually found in warehouses. They also provide "Variable Pay Compensation". Every month you get a BONUS ! Provided you did not have unscheduled time off, you will get extra money based on your hours. Peak times just doubles how much you receive. I barely worked in December, and my vcp for that month is just under $300. You don't need to do anything special, its always just added to your payout. One employee can never tell the whole story (including me). Different buildings with different people in all of them.

grawprog 9y ago

My comments on this article seem pretty heavily disagreed with but here's my point. He doesn't want to work at amazon, he doesn't want to lose his benefits. Yet he spends almost no money in rent and does nothing so likely has a good amount of money saved up. He enjoys painting figurines and such things. Why not try and find a way to market that skill? It can certainly be done. Even while keeping his amazon job. Find ways to make money outside work. He clearly has the time and money to set some goals and put a plan into action. If he's so unhappy maybe do that? He works 4 days a week. I work 6 days and manage to fo visit my friend once a week, cook proper meals for myself, program, play music and have hobbies I enjoy doing. Many of the things he said were straight up 'I can't be bothered to do this so my life sucks' That is entirely his choice. Sometimes you have to take chances in life if you're unhappy. He should have enough money saved up to be able to live off it for a while. If he's too scared to lose his benefits and pursue what he wants that's his choice. I would respect him far more if this was a story about how he quit amazon, tried to change his life and failed than this. Even failure is more respectable because at least he tried to take his life into his own hands. This is just a whiny rant about how he's too scared to live life. It's his life, it's up to him to do what he wants.