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List of oldest companies: Before 1300
- gf263 9y agoFascinating. Is it Japanese culture to maintain the family business?
- mywittyname 9y agoI believe that it is tradition for the founding family to adopt the next generation head of the business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption#Economic_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption#Econom...
- liberte82 9y agoThat seems like cheating.
- travmatt 9y agoRoman political families regularly adopted heirs as well. Rome’s first emperor Augustus was the adopted heir of Julius Casaer.
- oelmekki 9y agoAnd to further the argument, the fact that one decided to put his blood son as emperor (Marcus Aurelius) is often seen has one of the early cause of roman decline. https://www.realclearhistory.com/2017/03/16/commodus_and_the_decline_of_roman_empire_1814.html https://www.realclearhistory.com/2017/03/16/commodus_and_the...
- craftyguy 9y agoYea this would be extremely OP in ck2.
- billmalarky 9y agoIs it though if the family traditions and ideology are passed on through the adopted member?
- jotm 9y agoSeems pretty advanced, actually, compared to the incestuous relationships to keep the bloodlines in Europe...
- hawktheslayer 9y agoI was very surprised to see a pub (Sean's) owned by Boy George on this list!
- 1337biz 9y agoBought it probably for its history. He always seemed a genuine good person behind the flashy persona.
- justincormack 9y agohe only "owned it briefly in 1987" according to Wikipedia
- billmalarky 9y agoIt's probably worth mentioning that his drug use has led to some pretty abhorrent behavior. That said I'm a believer that people should be judged on the sum of all their actions not reduced to their worst moments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_George#Conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_George#Conviction
- JoeAltmaier 9y agoUniversities aren't included?
- crazypyro 9y agoFrom the Wiki page, its all companies 'excluding associations and educational, government, or religious organizations'.
- freehunter 9y agoIf you listed universities, it seems like you'd have to list churches as well, and then they would dominate the list. They're not really "companies", more like organizations. The page even says "excluding associations and educational, government, or religious organizations."
- darkhorn 9y agoYou must be United Statian who thinks that every organization must exist for profit and othervise it is evil communist, including garbage collectors, social security, police and military, educatiın, ambulance etc
- sctb 9y agoPlease don't post trollish generalizations like this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- darkhorn 9y agoIt makes United Statians question and compare their policies with other developed nations. Now, the USA has really big issue like social security, university education and militarized police etc
- mrarjen 9y agoWeihenstephan is still one of my fav breweries. Would be nice to see articles regarding how some of these companies managed to keep going for this long.
- trevyn 9y ago“Be in a timeless industry” seems to have heavy weighting :-) Most are hospitality or alcohol production, it looks like.
- jjuhl 9y ago"Be in a timeless industry” - then there should be at least one brothel in the list..
- fileeditview 9y agoI have a hunch that brothels are rarely a family business.. so that might be a reason why there is none. :)
- SolarNet 9y agoTimeless would probably include "timelessly legal" as a component.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- iagooar 9y agoThe oldest restaurant in Europe is in Wroclaw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piwnica_Świdnicka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piwnica_Świdnicka I once went there without knowing the fact, and it amazed me. It feels so different to sit between those old walls, trying to imagine how the place used to be before or during WWII, or in the 13th century...
- kaeluka 9y agoStiftskeller St. Peter is much older, according to this list: before 803.
- lukasm 9y agoMaybe the difference is that Stiftskeller offered rooms so it's not technically a restaurant?
- philjohn 9y agoI grew up in Waterloo, Belgium. There's a museum there where one half is dedicated to the Battle of Waterloo, and the other side is a museum of the town history. There's a photo of the road right outside the building taken during German occupation with swastika banners lining either side ... and then you look out the window and see the current scene, it's eerie.
- turc1656 9y agoIt's really incredible to see something like this. I was disheartened to see that Kongō Gumi was acquired in 2006 after 1,400+ years in business. It's just hard to wrap your mind around. But to see hotels and wineries that have existed for over a millennia is really quite amazing.
- known 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianyifang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianyifang in 1416 is the first Chinese Restaurant
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoThe history says that restaurant was established in 1850s when the owners hired a chef from the original Bianyifang, and that the name was common amongst several restaurants. Sounds like a separate business to me.
- keymone 9y agoit's incredible to realize that there still exists (technically) a company that was a thousand years old in 1500s.
- geofft 9y agoWow, this web page looks like it hasn't been updated since 1439: http://www.luebeckaltstadthotel.de/ http://www.luebeckaltstadthotel.de/
- jrowley 9y agoI appreciate their animated gifs.
- patja 9y agoWhen you are successful and have stood the test of time, who needs a website? In 100 years or so, there probably won't be such a thing as html in popular use any longer.
- zerr 9y agoThe web design company (http://www.online-media-werbeagentur.de/ http://www.online-media-werbeagentur.de/) seems out of business though :)
- ambrosite 9y agoThe copyright date is 2006. It's amazing that a site design like this would have been built as late as 2006. It looks more like something from 1996. Oh, and I just noticed that if you change the language to German, there is a link to a photo gallery: http://www.luebeckaltstadthotel.de/tischbein.htm http://www.luebeckaltstadthotel.de/tischbein.htm
- MatthewWilkes 9y agoI had a fun run-in with this q couple of years ago. We had a field in company profile fkr the year of founding whose validator was '4 digits'.
- gboudrias 9y agoI laughed, but this reminds me of an article that was posted here a while ago: http://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-time http://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programm... It's very easy to get dates wrong.
- rplnt 9y agoI think it's hard to argue it's the same company in some cases. The breweries in particular used to be a brewery in said city (the city had right to have a brewery). Different owners, different locations, later different legal companies, periods of inactivity, etc.. The continuity is lost beyond "there was a brewery in this town 600 year ago".
- gist 9y agoThe list is interesting entertainment but I am skeptical about how they determine oldest other than what a wikipedia page says in some cases. It's not like we are talking about dates which have been certified by experts at auction houses for personal property.
- zerokernel 9y agoI'll just throw in here that faking contracts and certificates has been a huge business in the last ~1200 years or so in Europe. Many cities who claimed to have been founded a thousand years ago (or whatever) had to cede those claims since the historical papers were faked (usually hundreds of years ago).
- navidfarhadi 9y agoThe oldest name on this list that stood out to me is Weihenstephan brewery, founded in 1040 in Bavaria, Germany. They have some of the finest lagers I have ever tried. If you enjoy crisp, refreshing lager beers, I highly recommend their beers. My favorite one is probably the Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier, followed by the Hefeweissbier Dunkel. Note: I am not affiliated in any way with the company, I just highly enjoy their beers.
- pavel_lishin 9y agoSeconding. Weihenstephaner is usually my beer of choice if it's on the menu.
- Fenrisulfr 9y agoAmazing beer, agreed. Another recommendation: My favorite Munich-style weiss beer is from Franziskaner (founded in 1363). It's in my top 3 beers of all time.
- navidfarhadi 9y agoFranziskaner weissbier is also one of my favorites, right up there with Weihenstephaner hefeweissbier. Both are top 5 German beers in my book for sure. They are both extremely easy to find in California (SF Bay Area) as well, which is great!
- emmelaich 9y agoI rate the the Schöfferhofer above the Franziskaner. But only just.
- namdnay 9y agoFunnily enough, my all-time favourite weissbier is the Kumulus from Airbrau, the only beer brewed in an airport terminal! It sounds like a gimmick, but it's actually really good.
- justincormack 9y agoOf course lager was only invented in the nineteenth century, so presumably they made very different beers before that.
- GotAnyMegadeth 9y agoI felt quite sad to read the fate of the top of that list > Kongō Gumi Co., Ltd. (株式会社金剛組 Kabushiki Gaisha Kongō Gumi) is a Japanese construction company which was the world's oldest continuously ongoing independent company, operating for over 1,400 years until it was absorbed as a subsidiary of Takamatsu in 2006.
- TomMarius 9y agoIt wasn't absorbed just because, the company has collapsed.
- billmalarky 9y agoThe future of Hoshi Inn (#4 on list) is uncertain as well, see my other comment for details https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16187837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16187837
- mongol 9y agoStoraEnso is marked as Finland, but that is due to a recent merger and the location of the HQ of the current company. The company Stora Kopparberg operated a mine in Falun, Sweden from which company shares exist from 1288.
- perseusprime11 9y agoDon't recognize most of them but the other day I learned Nokia was incorporated in 1871 and it is still around.
- turc1656 9y agoI just noticed that Stella Artois is 650 years old!
- perseusprime11 9y agoand still doing good...Here's their superbowl ad: http://adage.com/article/special-report-super-bowl/stella-artois-super-bowl-ad-starring-matt-damon/311945/ http://adage.com/article/special-report-super-bowl/stella-ar...
- INTPenis 9y agoNintendo is also pretty darn old. Founded in 1889 and has been making games since the start. Talk about reinventing yourself with the market, or in recent history, inventing the market.
- alangibson 9y agoHirter beer still sucks, even if it has been around since 1270.
- krsdcbl 9y agoFunny, i actually really like Hirter - specially their more traditional red beers
- billmalarky 9y agoI've had the amazing opportunity to stay at Hoshi Inn (4th oldest on the list)! I keep the card on my desk (https://i.imgur.com/AyWUGhg.png https://i.imgur.com/AyWUGhg.png :-) The courtyard garden the inn is built around is absolutely stunning, and the hot springs were the best out of all the ryokans we stayed at in Japan. The best part though is the hotel is actively managed and operated by the family - these wonderful people will meet you at the door. There is concern about the future of the hotel, as the son who was assumed to take on ownership of the inn passed away suddenly, leaving the responsibility to the adult daughter. She's seems exceptionally capable (not to mention is incredibly pleasant), but she is unmarried/childless and seems unsure of her desire to marry or assume ownership of the inn. Clearly it would not be the same if the business continued on operated by someone outside the family. I highly recommend watching this short film about the situation: https://vimeo.com/114879061 https://vimeo.com/114879061 edit: replaced "bloodline" with "family" as I've been told Japanese culture resolves bloodline continuity issues via adult adoption.
- justincormack 9y agoIt is traditional in Japan to adopt people into family firms. eg see http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/japanese-adoption-rates-majority-adult-men-a7524301.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/japanese-adoption-ra...
- billmalarky 9y agoWell that's an interesting solution! Japanese culture is not without its faults, but it is just so damn fascinating. Sigh... I need to go back.
- laurentoget 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_in_ancient_Rome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_in_ancient_Rome interesting similarity between Japan and ancient Rome, there.
- 9y ago
- crappybird 9y agoShould not the church be on top of this list?
- turc1656 9y agoThis list looks like it includes for-profit only. Also, with the church, it's "company" status is relegated on a per-country basis, usually to gain non-profit taxation benefits. So it's a little murky there.
- ddebernardy 9y agoChurches are some of the wealthiest organizations out there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_organizations#Religious_organizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_organizatio... And let's get serious, some "church" related activities are hardly not-for-profits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg
- geofft 9y agoThat list doesn't include states, which are pretty wealthy. And I'd say you should include states as much as churches in the comparison, because the Catholic Church, at least, is historically much more akin to a state or empire than to a business. (I think your argument could apply to the more recently formed churches.) As for your video link, that's about televangelism, which is extremely recent. Even Tetzel wasn't really in it for his own personal profit.
- interfixus 9y agoI was thinking there would be a very good case for the Vatican to occupy the number one spot. Whether seen solely as the papal organisation , or as a kind of continuation of the (Western) Roman Empire, these guys have been in day to day business for at least close to two thousand years. And have the archives to prove it. Wanna check up on some royal correspondance from the year 500? They may well have the actual letters stashed away somewhere. Also: I don't really think the for-profit filter disqualifies them here.
- strictnein 9y agoEqually interesting would a list of companies that lasted for 500, 750, or a 1000 years but then failed. Imagine being the last person to run a 1000 year old company.
- INTPenis 9y agoWell the oldest company on that list was bought and now only exists as a subsidiary. Imagine being the person behind that decision. To end a 1500 year old dynasty with the stroke of a pen.
- jjuhl 9y agoGiven that prostitution often claims to be the oldest game in town, it's surprising that there are no brothels in this list.
- turc1656 9y agoI suspect that's because pretty much every country/civilization in the past 2,000 years at some point or another has banned prostitution as a matter of law/force.
- pjmlp 9y agoThings changed a bit since Babylon days, about 3,000 years ago.
- dragonwriter 9y agoEven if there were a continuous prostitution enterprise operating over a sufficient timeline (which is not entirely implausible) legal and social acceptance issues would make it unlikely to be a continuous fixed location (brothel) or even a continuous overt business organization.
- matthewmcg 9y agoIs "Enterprise rental" some sort of auto-text substitution error?
- dragonwriter 9y agoWell, it's not what I intended, so probably. Fixed.
- geoffreyhale 9y ago"...excluding associations and educational, government, or religious organizations." And yet it lists "government owned institution" Monnaie de Paris, "government-owned" Royal Mint, et cetera... Ignoring those rule-breakers, 7 of Europe's top 10 are alcohol-related, while Japan holds the top 5 with primarily Hotel and Construction companies.
- SSLy 9y agoIf you squint your eyes just right you could consider the Latin Catholic Church to be one of these.
- dragonwriter 9y agoWell, religious institutions are expressly excluded, so, no, neither the Roman Catholic Church nor the (dominant) subset thereof known as the Latin Rite (either of which might be want is intended by “Latin Catholic Church”) would qualify.
- jweir 9y agoOne take away from this list is that no software firms have survived. I would recommend hotels or booze if you want a business to last.
- divbzero 9y agoThis was likely said in jest but also contains a solid kernel of truth. On the other hand, the same forces that make for high turnover in the software industry also make it more fertile for new startups.
- Cyberdog 9y agoThe list ends at 1700. There weren't many software companies around at the time. (Oh, wait, is that the joke? Sorry.)
- ergest 9y agoServe an eternal need and you'll have an eternal business
- Zenst 9y agoThere sure is alot of pub and accommodation entries, but then that is one area that technology and indeed, industrialization and the other progressive phases in society have not impacted as much as other industries. On a positive and encourage note - not one single manufacturer of weapons listed at all.
- cjalmeida 9y agoLikely because guns went through a lot of recent technology disruptions. Nonetheless, Colt was founded in 1855 and is doing fine. Unless laser handguns become a thing I don't see them going down for the foreseeable future.
- linopolus 9y agoSorry to disappoint you: 1526 Beretta Italy Firearms 1578 Klett Germany Firearms 1674 Sabatti Italy Firearms
- Zenst 9y agoAh, darn, I missed those somehow, oh well. Appreciate the correction - learn more from being wrong.
- nkg 9y agoSurprise! The oldest company in Ireland is a pub.
- jotm 9y agoWell, what did you expect, a potato farm? :D
- cholter 9y agoAs a history buff I would love to see a similar list of these companies filtered down to the ones that are still using the original building. It is so rare that you see centuries-old organizations/businesses/anything that still use the same buildings that they were created with
- atomic77 9y agoSomething I can't help but notice: all of the countries on the list are currently wealthy, advanced economies. Cause or effect?
- jotm 9y agoThey didn't bother with lesser known countries, good record keeping, fewer wars, definition of company.
- jedberg 9y agoBoth? Most likely it's because those countries have strong traditions of record keeping and have been fairly stable culturally.
- atomic77 9y agoMaybe it's a reflection of a sort of long term, virtuous loop. Stability brings wealth, wealth reinforces the need for stability. Shocks can occur (e.g. Japan and Germany most recently) but note how quickly they're right back where they were, at least on multi-generational timescale.
- krick 9y ago"Wealthy, advanced economies" is quite extensible concept. There are some small, not so wealthy countries on the list. No real correlation here. And if you are wondering, why Nigeria is not on the list — well, isn't it obvious? I mean, even if the country was very successful during its history, but barely keeping on the float right now — probably the 1000 y.o. family business wouldn't be currently active as well.
- twobyfour 9y agoThe older tiers of this list seem to be heavily dominated by Japan, Germany, and Switzerland. Is that reflective of something other than the demographics of non-"New World" contributors to Wikipedia?
- linopolus 9y agoThe US were founded in 1787, Columbus reached America in 1492, so how do you expect to find companies there older than that?
- Kluny 9y agoThere were people in America before Columbus got there. I guess it's a safe bet though, that even if they had companies, they didn't survive.
- shmerl 9y agoMore likely, they didn't think in the terms of companies to begin with.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- twobyfour 9y agoRight, obviously they're not going to be in the New World. The question is why those countries, of all the ones in the Old World? There's very little in France, the UK, Norway, Albania, India, Syria, and a heck of a lot of other places with thousands of years of history.
- davidw 9y agoRelative stability, and good written records are probably a reasonable part of the answer.
- dmead 9y agoMissing this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avedis_Zildjian_Company https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avedis_Zildjian_Company
- RandallBrown 9y agoZildjian is on the list, it's just not from before 1300.
- rurban 9y agoThis list looks very suspicious when the largest company ever, the VOC founded 1602 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company founded is not listed there. Apparently only small family companies are listed, not the big ones. The 2nd biggest company of those times, the Fugger copper mining company founded 1494, dissolved 1657 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger is also not listed, neither the 3rd largest, the Welser banking and merchant companies. Welsersche Handelsgesellschaft 1490 and ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welser
- ViktorV 9y agoI suppose that the company has to be functioning in the present too.
- btomar 9y agoWhy is there no East India Company in this list?
- artur_makly 9y agoGreat list of potential startup names too!
- thiscatis 9y agoSo many breweries!
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoThe theme here appears to be food and shelter. I'd also wager that some students in Japan were given an assignment to research an old company or business and then place it on the list.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoSo you see that in the edit history - like 30 users from Japan all adding new entries on the same day?
- microcolonel 9y agoThere are world religions younger than Kongō Gumi.
- jpatokal 9y agoI hate to rain on the parade, but many of the ancient Japanese inn entries are a bit dubious. They're mostly based on traveler's reports that there was an inn at X/a new hot spring was found at X in year Y being conflated with the fact that there's an inn at X now: they may well be the same, but it's hardly ironclad proof of continuous operation.
- throwwwwaway9 9y ago>>but it's hardly ironclad proof of continuous operation. Beats the rest of the evidence, no? Also, we're not betting our lives in this...
- bewatson 9y agoInterestingly, the list lower on the page that has companies from 1300 to 1399 is twice as long. Does anyone know if something significant happened in the world that leaves so many more companies from that century around?
- lobo_tuerto 9y agoWow Japan totally dominates the lists! I wonder how they do that.