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It already it. Most people middle class and up work way more than they strictly need to for simple wellbeing. It's just that our standards and expectation for w

It already it. Most people middle class and up work way more than they strictly need to for simple wellbeing. It's just that our standards and expectation for wellbeing shifts, and shifts quickly.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
I'd say "are in the workplace way more" ... >"Now, the workday is ripe for another disruption. Research suggests that in an eight-hour day, the average worker is only productive for two hours and 53 minutes." https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-average-worker-is-productive-for-this-many-hours.html https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-aver... // Other studies show the most productive workers take long breaks (~25% of working time).
- Simon_says 9y ago
  I feel that's more a symptom of people doing work they loathe. When there's intrinsic motivation for doing work, people are productive for the overwhelming majority of the time spent working, and breaks magically evaporate.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    The trouble is when you start doing something for money it always seems to drain any intrinsic motivation you had.
    - phil21 9y ago
      Not at all. I think too many technologists (including myself these days) sit behind far too many layers of abstractions. Coding a quick Perl script to solve a real world problem on a factory floor and watching a dozen machinists start grinning and get way more productive is something I've been paid to do, and I never got unmotivated by. One of those jobs where you simply stay until the job is done, and don't feel put out in the least you got home at 11pm. It's when you're slogging away 12 factors removed on some crap you know is utterly meaningless to anyone - even if it's in tooling you like - that's when I get severe motivational problems. I'd rather work as a cashier at a gas station where at least I can see the effect I have on society with my labor.
- mseebach 9y ago
  I'd argue that this definition of "productive" is insufficient. Conveniently, the link to the study is broken (and to "vouchercloud.com", not BLS, the stated source of the study), so it's hard to check the numbers. My point is, few people can walk up to a keyboard and program "productively" for three hours -- and then do the same thing the next day again indefinitely. Hidden in those productive hours is a lot of informal coordination, necessary for those three hours to be actually productive. By no means is it given that 8 hours is the optimal workday, nor that the way we generally structure work is the most efficient, but luckily, our field is especially receptive to radical experiments, so someone will surely try this any day now. (/s)
Clubber 9y ago
>Most people middle class and up work way more than they strictly need to for simple wellbeing. Sort of. For the week, I would agree, for a lifetime, not so sure about that. I mean what happens when you are unable to work? That could come sooner or later, but when it does come, you will need a chunk of change to get you through the rest of your life. Also, at the other end of life, children can't work until 16, so someone needs a chunk of change to take care of them too.
- mseebach 9y ago
  The trick is to abstain from all luxuries in life (thus, the "strictly need" qualifier). Of course, we don't really want to do without the luxuries, so we work to earn their cost -- and we also don't want to do without them in old age/during sickness, and so we even more to have savings. But a roof over your head and beans in your bowl, including savings for a few decades of this without working, isn't really hard to achieve at all.
  - monaghanboy 9y ago
    As a small example, I met someone at the gym the other day who told me living in the South Bay without a car would suck. I was surprised; I've never learned how to drive, nor have I owned a car, and I consider this a blessing. I bike 25 minutes to work, 20 minutes to the gym, and less to most other places I need to go. And I'm healthier for it. I never became acclimated to owning a car, and every time I consider buying one, I just can't justify the value add. I don't even mean that financially it wouldn't net out (it certainly wouldn't), but the cognitive overhead of having to manage yet another thing doesn't really appeal to me. And then there's the thought of passively sitting in a box for about an hour a day in lieu of being out in the open air, which sounds awful.

It already it. Most people middle class and up work way more than they strictly need to for simple wellbeing. It's just that our standards and expectation for wellbeing shifts, and shifts quickly.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago

I'd say "are in the workplace way more" ... >"Now, the workday is ripe for another disruption. Research suggests that in an eight-hour day, the average worker is only productive for two hours and 53 minutes." https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-average-worker-is-productive-for-this-many-hours.html https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-aver... // Other studies show the most productive workers take long breaks (~25% of working time).

Simon_says 9y ago
I feel that's more a symptom of people doing work they loathe. When there's intrinsic motivation for doing work, people are productive for the overwhelming majority of the time spent working, and breaks magically evaporate.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  The trouble is when you start doing something for money it always seems to drain any intrinsic motivation you had.
  - phil21 9y ago
    Not at all. I think too many technologists (including myself these days) sit behind far too many layers of abstractions. Coding a quick Perl script to solve a real world problem on a factory floor and watching a dozen machinists start grinning and get way more productive is something I've been paid to do, and I never got unmotivated by. One of those jobs where you simply stay until the job is done, and don't feel put out in the least you got home at 11pm. It's when you're slogging away 12 factors removed on some crap you know is utterly meaningless to anyone - even if it's in tooling you like - that's when I get severe motivational problems. I'd rather work as a cashier at a gas station where at least I can see the effect I have on society with my labor.
mseebach 9y ago
I'd argue that this definition of "productive" is insufficient. Conveniently, the link to the study is broken (and to "vouchercloud.com", not BLS, the stated source of the study), so it's hard to check the numbers. My point is, few people can walk up to a keyboard and program "productively" for three hours -- and then do the same thing the next day again indefinitely. Hidden in those productive hours is a lot of informal coordination, necessary for those three hours to be actually productive. By no means is it given that 8 hours is the optimal workday, nor that the way we generally structure work is the most efficient, but luckily, our field is especially receptive to radical experiments, so someone will surely try this any day now. (/s)

Clubber 9y ago

>Most people middle class and up work way more than they strictly need to for simple wellbeing. Sort of. For the week, I would agree, for a lifetime, not so sure about that. I mean what happens when you are unable to work? That could come sooner or later, but when it does come, you will need a chunk of change to get you through the rest of your life. Also, at the other end of life, children can't work until 16, so someone needs a chunk of change to take care of them too.

mseebach 9y ago
The trick is to abstain from all luxuries in life (thus, the "strictly need" qualifier). Of course, we don't really want to do without the luxuries, so we work to earn their cost -- and we also don't want to do without them in old age/during sickness, and so we even more to have savings. But a roof over your head and beans in your bowl, including savings for a few decades of this without working, isn't really hard to achieve at all.
- monaghanboy 9y ago
  As a small example, I met someone at the gym the other day who told me living in the South Bay without a car would suck. I was surprised; I've never learned how to drive, nor have I owned a car, and I consider this a blessing. I bike 25 minutes to work, 20 minutes to the gym, and less to most other places I need to go. And I'm healthier for it. I never became acclimated to owning a car, and every time I consider buying one, I just can't justify the value add. I don't even mean that financially it wouldn't net out (it certainly wouldn't), but the cognitive overhead of having to manage yet another thing doesn't really appeal to me. And then there's the thought of passively sitting in a box for about an hour a day in lieu of being out in the open air, which sounds awful.