7 ms·

I'm in the same boat as you. I hate politics and back-stabbing environments. Why can't everybody just do what it's supposed to do in a work environment?

XorNot 9y ago
People who "hate politics" tend to create a lot of it. Being politically savvy/expedient is as much about knowing how to get along with people as it is getting what you want.
- ozim 9y ago
  As much it is not about hating politics but hating mischievous backstabbers. Getting along with people does not mean licking their behind. People who instead of spending most time licking someones bottom instead of doing actuall work are problem. Also they spend their time thinking how to throw someone under the bus instead of adding value. So beeing savvy/expedient is not a problem.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Since I made the original comment I just want to clarify that I made no judgement on political savvy. My point was that there are a lot dimensions to smartness so "smart leader" is a meaningless word by itself. Smart in what way?
- FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
  I'm of the same cloth, I'm not fond of interpersonal politics in a working environment but I've came to accept it's part and parcel of live, work is no exception. Politics is not so much about politicising ethics or your workplace. It's the nuances about creating a positive work environment, finding compromise in decisions, creating common ground and finding a balance between honesty and caring for others. The nuance is there but it's entirely in the grey. It's not black and white. There's a quote from Russell Brand that comes to mind who from what I recall, was quoting his own father: "A man that says a space is a spade is fit only to wield one"
- AnthonyMouse 9y ago
  > People who "hate politics" tend to create a lot of it. There is a reason for that. Politics is basically the process of pasting kludges together until the net result is something that no powerful group hates enough to be willing to smash it all to smithereens with a sledgehammer. But if you objectively look at any of the kludges individually, or even the overall result after a few years, it's a horrific mess. A horrific mess at a Nash equilibrium. So as soon as you start picking apart any subsection of the omnishambles, everything falls out of balance and someone starts screaming for you to stop. And it is a horrific mess that should be smashed to smithereens with a sledgehammer every few years, but the only way to do that is to wipe the slate clean and start over from scratch with multilateral negotiations between two hundred separate parties. Which is a ton of work that nobody wants to do when they can get away with kicking the can down the road for another year. So anybody who tries to smash up any part of the mess has to fight everyone who would rather keep the status quo than do the work to fix it right now.
  - gbacon 9y ago
    “Politics and crime, they are the same thing.” All three movies are now on Netflix.
  - marcosdumay 9y ago
    > but the only way to do that is to wipe the slate clean and start over from scratch with multilateral negotiations between two hundred separate parties Hum... Have you ever seen negotiations between hundreds of different parties? They way to do that is getting enough force to change an incentive, and changing it; then going after enough force to change another one, and changing it. Let the people fight over the new incentive far from you.
  - hux_ 9y ago
    Lot of black and white, 1+1=2 type statements here. Politics is about dealing with uncertainity and ambiguity. The real world is full of it. If your parents can't stand each other but tomorrow you get cancer and this dsyfunctional unit has to deal politics applies. Good politics makes things better. Writing down on a piece of paper - these truths are self evident that all men are created equal does not make it so in the real world. That's an example of ambiguity. There is no question of smashing things up and hitting a reset button when dealing with ambiguity. Here too good politics applies cause everyone in the room knows the statement is false but good politics can bring everyone into the room and keep them there and make them decide they are going to change the "truth". Young people like you, aren't exposed to ambiguity or expected to solve ambiguities, cause you have enough on your plate accumulating knowledge about all the unambiguous stuff. It is easy for a young person to get it into his head, that all problems are pointless to work on if the text book is only filled with ambiguous problems. Which is why students textbooks aren't filled with them. The flip side is some students get it into their heads that all problems are unambiguous. They are the ones that misunderstand politics. Leave alone what good politics can do.

XorNot 9y ago

People who "hate politics" tend to create a lot of it. Being politically savvy/expedient is as much about knowing how to get along with people as it is getting what you want.

ozim 9y ago
As much it is not about hating politics but hating mischievous backstabbers. Getting along with people does not mean licking their behind. People who instead of spending most time licking someones bottom instead of doing actuall work are problem. Also they spend their time thinking how to throw someone under the bus instead of adding value. So beeing savvy/expedient is not a problem.
maxxxxx 9y ago
Since I made the original comment I just want to clarify that I made no judgement on political savvy. My point was that there are a lot dimensions to smartness so "smart leader" is a meaningless word by itself. Smart in what way?
FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
I'm of the same cloth, I'm not fond of interpersonal politics in a working environment but I've came to accept it's part and parcel of live, work is no exception. Politics is not so much about politicising ethics or your workplace. It's the nuances about creating a positive work environment, finding compromise in decisions, creating common ground and finding a balance between honesty and caring for others. The nuance is there but it's entirely in the grey. It's not black and white. There's a quote from Russell Brand that comes to mind who from what I recall, was quoting his own father: "A man that says a space is a spade is fit only to wield one"
AnthonyMouse 9y ago
> People who "hate politics" tend to create a lot of it. There is a reason for that. Politics is basically the process of pasting kludges together until the net result is something that no powerful group hates enough to be willing to smash it all to smithereens with a sledgehammer. But if you objectively look at any of the kludges individually, or even the overall result after a few years, it's a horrific mess. A horrific mess at a Nash equilibrium. So as soon as you start picking apart any subsection of the omnishambles, everything falls out of balance and someone starts screaming for you to stop. And it is a horrific mess that should be smashed to smithereens with a sledgehammer every few years, but the only way to do that is to wipe the slate clean and start over from scratch with multilateral negotiations between two hundred separate parties. Which is a ton of work that nobody wants to do when they can get away with kicking the can down the road for another year. So anybody who tries to smash up any part of the mess has to fight everyone who would rather keep the status quo than do the work to fix it right now.
- gbacon 9y ago
  “Politics and crime, they are the same thing.” All three movies are now on Netflix.
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  > but the only way to do that is to wipe the slate clean and start over from scratch with multilateral negotiations between two hundred separate parties Hum... Have you ever seen negotiations between hundreds of different parties? They way to do that is getting enough force to change an incentive, and changing it; then going after enough force to change another one, and changing it. Let the people fight over the new incentive far from you.
- hux_ 9y ago
  Lot of black and white, 1+1=2 type statements here. Politics is about dealing with uncertainity and ambiguity. The real world is full of it. If your parents can't stand each other but tomorrow you get cancer and this dsyfunctional unit has to deal politics applies. Good politics makes things better. Writing down on a piece of paper - these truths are self evident that all men are created equal does not make it so in the real world. That's an example of ambiguity. There is no question of smashing things up and hitting a reset button when dealing with ambiguity. Here too good politics applies cause everyone in the room knows the statement is false but good politics can bring everyone into the room and keep them there and make them decide they are going to change the "truth". Young people like you, aren't exposed to ambiguity or expected to solve ambiguities, cause you have enough on your plate accumulating knowledge about all the unambiguous stuff. It is easy for a young person to get it into his head, that all problems are pointless to work on if the text book is only filled with ambiguous problems. Which is why students textbooks aren't filled with them. The flip side is some students get it into their heads that all problems are unambiguous. They are the ones that misunderstand politics. Leave alone what good politics can do.