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> The $6 billion price tag was ridiculous. I looked up construction costs for European high speed rail lines earlier. The best estimate I could find state cost

> The $6 billion price tag was ridiculous. I looked up construction costs for European high speed rail lines earlier. The best estimate I could find state costs between 12 - 40 million euros per kilometer. For the 119 miles of this train, that lands you between 2.3 to 5.7 billion euros. So the $6 billion doesn't sound that unreasonable.

kelnos 9y ago
I can't find it now, but I recall an article from about a year ago that compared per-mile/km transit costs in the US and various cities in Europe. The costs in the US were ridiculously higher. I don't recall if there was a conclusion as to why. So comparing to a comparable project in Europe isn't really representative, unfortunately.
rayiner 9y ago
It costs us 5-7x as much as Europe per mile to build rail: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subw.... That article addresses tunnels, but there is no reason to expect it would be different for above ground rail. Indeed, it could be worse. The eminent domain and environmental review problems that plague our system are worse for an above ground project.
- adventured 9y ago
  It looks like Texas is going to do 240 miles for ~$12 billion, without public money. Comparable to European rail costs. https://www.texastribune.org/2017/12/20/texas-scrapped-toll-lanes-2017-while-bullet-train-survived-legislature/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/12/20/texas-scrapped-toll-... https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/65298/bullet-train-texas/ https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/65298/bullet-tra...
- kbart 9y ago
  Subway!=ground rail. The former is vastly more expensive. Brand new, two line high-speed ground rail costs 10-30 millions €/km[0], while the cost of underground kilometer typically is 200-300 millions €/km in Europe and sometimes up to billions in USA[1]. 0. https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-construct-a-kilometer-of-railway-track-in-Europe https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-construct-a-k... 1. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/1/14112776/new-york-second-avenue-subway-phase-2 https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/1/14112776/ne...
  - rayiner 9y ago
    OP suggested that the HSR budget was realistic if we looked at the per mile cost of European high speed rail. My point is that if it costs us 5-7x as much as Europe to build subway, it’s unrealistic to expect we can build above ground rail for the same price as Europe.

kelnos 9y ago

I can't find it now, but I recall an article from about a year ago that compared per-mile/km transit costs in the US and various cities in Europe. The costs in the US were ridiculously higher. I don't recall if there was a conclusion as to why. So comparing to a comparable project in Europe isn't really representative, unfortunately.

rayiner 9y ago

It costs us 5-7x as much as Europe per mile to build rail: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subw.... That article addresses tunnels, but there is no reason to expect it would be different for above ground rail. Indeed, it could be worse. The eminent domain and environmental review problems that plague our system are worse for an above ground project.

adventured 9y ago
It looks like Texas is going to do 240 miles for ~$12 billion, without public money. Comparable to European rail costs. https://www.texastribune.org/2017/12/20/texas-scrapped-toll-lanes-2017-while-bullet-train-survived-legislature/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/12/20/texas-scrapped-toll-... https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/65298/bullet-train-texas/ https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/65298/bullet-tra...
kbart 9y ago
Subway!=ground rail. The former is vastly more expensive. Brand new, two line high-speed ground rail costs 10-30 millions €/km[0], while the cost of underground kilometer typically is 200-300 millions €/km in Europe and sometimes up to billions in USA[1]. 0. https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-construct-a-kilometer-of-railway-track-in-Europe https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-construct-a-k... 1. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/1/14112776/new-york-second-avenue-subway-phase-2 https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/1/14112776/ne...
- rayiner 9y ago
  OP suggested that the HSR budget was realistic if we looked at the per mile cost of European high speed rail. My point is that if it costs us 5-7x as much as Europe to build subway, it’s unrealistic to expect we can build above ground rail for the same price as Europe.