9 ms·

> You see, despite being volatile, Bitcoin still solves important issues. Which ones? Can you use bitcoin to pay for some food? Or to get your roof fixed?

by arkh 9y ago

ihsw2 9y ago
There is a difference between currencies and stores of value -- its viability as the former is weak at best but it is formidable in the latter. Now, that said, its worth as a speculative investment vehicle is proven. Low cost to acquire, low cost to sell, abundant, minimally appreciates in value over an 18-month period (much less a quarter-century), resistant to tampering (setting aside external price manipulation), high popularity -- few other speculative investment vehicles outside of the finance industry have had such success. Granted, its staying power is an unknown and whether it will be around when it reaches its 25-year age is something else to consider.
- Jtsummers 9y ago
  A store of value is the function of an asset that can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved. Bitcoin is crappy as a store of value, you cannot predictably sell your position in BTC to any other currency for the same or greater amount that you put in before. Actual stores of value include real estate, bonds, currency (real currency, not crypto"currency" that can't be used as a currency), and collectibles. Stocks are not stores of value. Their prices are too volatile. Cryptocurrencies, presently, are not stores of value. Their prices are too volatile.
stickydink 9y ago
Yes and, yes http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/food/serving/All http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/food/serving/All http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/contractors/ http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/contractors/
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  460 restaurants and 22 contractors. In the entire world. You're proving the point you're attempting to debunk.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    That's like pointing out that there were only a few "highways" a decade after the car was invented...
    - soVeryTired 9y ago
      Or like pointing out there were only a few zeppelin routes when the Hindenburg launched.
    - ceejayoz 9y ago
      There were plenty of roads in the late 1800s.
- georgeecollins 9y ago
  That's hilarious. I can use bitcoin to buy a sandwich in Jacksonville Florida. Who knew?
  - thousandautumns 9y ago
    Venezuela is saved!
    - dang 9y ago
      Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
      - thousandautumns 9y ago
        Perhaps I shouldn't have been snarky, but my point is that being able to buy a very limited amount of items in sparse areas throughout the world with Bitcoin is at odds with the idea that Bitcoin has value for people in countries with volatile, spiraling economies, which was the original point being made. I felt that was a substantive enough point to be made. But I apologize regardless.
throwaway1X2 9y ago
> Can you use bitcoin to pay for some food? Or to get your roof fixed? This is a bit of false argument. One of the most universally recognized value stores is gold. Yet, can you use gold to pay for some food? Try marching into Tesco, grab some groceries, drop the gold bar on the counter and expect change... Yes, if you overpay it 50-times (a 1 oz gold bar for 20 EUR groceries), someone (cashier, other customer, anybody) will accept it on their personal risk (maybe it is fake? who in sane mind would pay with gold at grocery store?), pay for you, take your gold and give you the groceries. But by definition: no, you cannot pay for food with gold/Bitcoin/diamonds/stocks/land/weapons/tobacco/alcohol/other food... At most, you can barter it. One of the most ridiculous cases I have seen lately is comparing Bitcoin fees with paying for coffee. Do you pay for coffee with gold bars? Do you pay for coffee with international non-SEPA bank transfers (expect 30 EUR fee, more than BTC, and weeks-long fulfillment)? Yes, Bitcoin was originally intended as "pay-for-coffee" currency. No, it isn't that anymore, it shifted more towards value store, settlement money between large entities, alternative to global bank transfers. My favorite counterexample is: Can you run from war conflict with money or gold under your shirt? You will be searched, stripped from cash and possibly detained. Or learn 20 English words, run naked and input those 20 words into the computer on the other end of the world. Do you think this is a overinflated example applied only to the worst parts of the world, where nobody have the money with them anyway? We, in the civilized world don't have any of such oppressions, right? Try leaving European Union with more than 10 000 EUR... During my business flights (especially to Arabic countries, where people were returning from shopping trips in Vienna etc.), I have seen quite a few folks detained just because of the cash they had on person.
- arkh 9y ago
  So the important problem fixed by Bitcoin is getting some value which can be electronicaly moved. I guess banks never thought of offering this kind of service. Thanks Satoshi!
  - mrb 9y ago
    ...which can be electronicaly moved without giving away control of your funds to a company/government who can easily seize, devalue, or prevent you from accessing your funds. That's the important issue that bitcoin solves. Do you understand what being decentralized & permissionless mean? And the power shift it implies on a social level?

> You see, despite being volatile, Bitcoin still solves important issues. Which ones? Can you use bitcoin to pay for some food? Or to get your roof fixed?

by arkh 9y ago

> You see, despite being volatile, Bitcoin still solves important issues. Which ones? Can you use bitcoin to pay for some food? Or to get your roof fixed?

ihsw2 9y ago

There is a difference between currencies and stores of value -- its viability as the former is weak at best but it is formidable in the latter. Now, that said, its worth as a speculative investment vehicle is proven. Low cost to acquire, low cost to sell, abundant, minimally appreciates in value over an 18-month period (much less a quarter-century), resistant to tampering (setting aside external price manipulation), high popularity -- few other speculative investment vehicles outside of the finance industry have had such success. Granted, its staying power is an unknown and whether it will be around when it reaches its 25-year age is something else to consider.

Jtsummers 9y ago
A store of value is the function of an asset that can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved. Bitcoin is crappy as a store of value, you cannot predictably sell your position in BTC to any other currency for the same or greater amount that you put in before. Actual stores of value include real estate, bonds, currency (real currency, not crypto"currency" that can't be used as a currency), and collectibles. Stocks are not stores of value. Their prices are too volatile. Cryptocurrencies, presently, are not stores of value. Their prices are too volatile.

stickydink 9y ago

Yes and, yes http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/food/serving/All http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/food/serving/All http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/contractors/ http://spendbitcoins.com/places/c/contractors/

ceejayoz 9y ago
460 restaurants and 22 contractors. In the entire world. You're proving the point you're attempting to debunk.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  That's like pointing out that there were only a few "highways" a decade after the car was invented...
  - soVeryTired 9y ago
    Or like pointing out there were only a few zeppelin routes when the Hindenburg launched.
  - ceejayoz 9y ago
    There were plenty of roads in the late 1800s.
georgeecollins 9y ago
That's hilarious. I can use bitcoin to buy a sandwich in Jacksonville Florida. Who knew?
- thousandautumns 9y ago
  Venezuela is saved!
  - dang 9y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
    - thousandautumns 9y ago
      Perhaps I shouldn't have been snarky, but my point is that being able to buy a very limited amount of items in sparse areas throughout the world with Bitcoin is at odds with the idea that Bitcoin has value for people in countries with volatile, spiraling economies, which was the original point being made. I felt that was a substantive enough point to be made. But I apologize regardless.

throwaway1X2 9y ago

> Can you use bitcoin to pay for some food? Or to get your roof fixed? This is a bit of false argument. One of the most universally recognized value stores is gold. Yet, can you use gold to pay for some food? Try marching into Tesco, grab some groceries, drop the gold bar on the counter and expect change... Yes, if you overpay it 50-times (a 1 oz gold bar for 20 EUR groceries), someone (cashier, other customer, anybody) will accept it on their personal risk (maybe it is fake? who in sane mind would pay with gold at grocery store?), pay for you, take your gold and give you the groceries. But by definition: no, you cannot pay for food with gold/Bitcoin/diamonds/stocks/land/weapons/tobacco/alcohol/other food... At most, you can barter it. One of the most ridiculous cases I have seen lately is comparing Bitcoin fees with paying for coffee. Do you pay for coffee with gold bars? Do you pay for coffee with international non-SEPA bank transfers (expect 30 EUR fee, more than BTC, and weeks-long fulfillment)? Yes, Bitcoin was originally intended as "pay-for-coffee" currency. No, it isn't that anymore, it shifted more towards value store, settlement money between large entities, alternative to global bank transfers. My favorite counterexample is: Can you run from war conflict with money or gold under your shirt? You will be searched, stripped from cash and possibly detained. Or learn 20 English words, run naked and input those 20 words into the computer on the other end of the world. Do you think this is a overinflated example applied only to the worst parts of the world, where nobody have the money with them anyway? We, in the civilized world don't have any of such oppressions, right? Try leaving European Union with more than 10 000 EUR... During my business flights (especially to Arabic countries, where people were returning from shopping trips in Vienna etc.), I have seen quite a few folks detained just because of the cash they had on person.

arkh 9y ago
So the important problem fixed by Bitcoin is getting some value which can be electronicaly moved. I guess banks never thought of offering this kind of service. Thanks Satoshi!
- mrb 9y ago
  ...which can be electronicaly moved without giving away control of your funds to a company/government who can easily seize, devalue, or prevent you from accessing your funds. That's the important issue that bitcoin solves. Do you understand what being decentralized & permissionless mean? And the power shift it implies on a social level?