6 ms·

The author says in the middle of the post: " I believe this is the key in retaining young Canadian tech talent in Canada. If an intern has a great experience a

The author says in the middle of the post: " I believe this is the key in retaining young Canadian tech talent in Canada. If an intern has a great experience at a Canadian tech company, they are more likely to sacrifice the additional compensation in US to remain in Canada. Sell them on the culture, not the money." And then says: " Tech CEOs in Canada often complain about the brain drain issue, but only a few companies like Shopify and Wealthsimple are actually putting money where their mouth is." Really, if you wanna "Sell" them on something, it should be the money, sure I'd go for culture if we are talking 10-15% salary difference, but if it's 50%, I'll find something that pays 50% more with a decent culture.

Scoundreller 9y ago
Or those that remain in Canada can't get a US visa for some reason. e.g. not a Canadian citizen, or otherwise can't meet TN1 requirements (not having a degree). Or have a significant other that can't get a visa.
TylerE 9y ago
Why not both? Sell them on culture, but the compensation still needs to be not insulting.
ttul 9y ago
Vancouver tech CEO here. We Canadian CEOs would love to pay our staff more, but our companies frankly suck compared to the powerhouse companies in the US. We just aren’t profitable enough. I think if you dig around, you will find that US tech companies are far better funded and thus working on things that generate more upside - for everyone. Another thing to consider is that there is a massive bull market going on. And tech is at the frothy end of it. Those RSUs are great when stock is valuable and companies are flush. When the market tanks, they won’t be so hot anymore.
- linguist_1 9y ago
  Second grade tech attracts second grade employees and second grade funding. That's the law of the market. Vancouver is interesting because it's also where a lot of american firms set shops in order to house employees that can't qualify for a US visa.
- piva00 9y ago
  How is the investors' risk mentality over there in Canada? I don't think the problem is profitability but simply money: US startups/companies have easier access to money as investors are willing to take more risks. I see the same effect here in Europe, companies have to run more "tightly" and carefully because money is not easy to come, not many will have a deep line of credit if their companies' life depend on money, getting new rounds of investment is expensive so you have to do with the money you have now and the little revenue you are getting.
  - ttul 9y ago
    There is way less risk tolerance in Canada. But more crucially, government policy does not reward risk taking so favorably, and a heavy presence of government in the funding of tech through a generous tax credit crowds out private investment. All this being said, I think it’s even more significant that tech investment and talent is concentrated on the Bay Area, and to a more corporate extent on Seattle with Amazon and Microsoft. Also, Canadian companies and employees whine too much. My attitude is: if you think you’d be better off in the US, it’s easy to just move there. You will earn more, and your company will be exposed to more funding AND much hotter competition for talent. So you’d better have a really amazing idea.
  - apercu 9y ago
    Canada (at least Ontario, I can't speak for the rest of the country) is significantly more risk averse than the US. On one hand it's a little annoying (you sort of have to talk a certain language here (meaning, project managers all use the same phrases, executives all talk the same, etc...) to truly fit in and rocking the boat isn't really celebrated. On the other hand, Canadians don't celebrate failure (think Trump or someone else who has multiple bankruptcies taking down companies and negatively affecting the workers) anywhere near as much as we Americans seem to.
  - nasalgoat 9y ago
    We had to go to the US to get funding, and even then it's not an equity investment, instead it's convertible. Canadians are simply risk-adverse, or are more comfortable with oil and gas or basic financial services.
- chrisseaton 9y ago
  But maybe if you paid more, you'd reduce the brain drain, and then maybe you'd be able to do better work and be more profitable? Paying more is an investment.
  - ttul 9y ago
    That’s possible, but why would I pay more when I can get great people at the market rate here? I mean, I work with really great people from all over the world.
    - chrisseaton 9y ago
      I thought you said that there was a brain-drain problem that people wanted to fix? If you are getting people that as as talented as you need at prices you want to pay then there's no brain-drain problem is there? But you also said the companies just didn't do as well as the US companies. Maybe with better pay you could attract better people to help fix that. I mean you're the one who said that there was a problem - the companies don't make enough money. That's why'd you want to pay more.
      - whack 9y ago
        If you look at most successful companies, high-cash-compensation comes after the company has become successful enough to afford it, not the other way around. Back when Facebook/Google were unestablished startups, their cash compensation wasn't anything to brag about.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
linguist_1 9y ago
That CEO is delusional. The work culture is actually miles ahead in the United States too. A lot of it has to do with the respect that comes with a good salary. You are far more likely to treat an employee worth 120k as less expandable than someone worth 60k.

Scoundreller 9y ago

Or those that remain in Canada can't get a US visa for some reason. e.g. not a Canadian citizen, or otherwise can't meet TN1 requirements (not having a degree). Or have a significant other that can't get a visa.

TylerE 9y ago

Why not both? Sell them on culture, but the compensation still needs to be not insulting.

ttul 9y ago

Vancouver tech CEO here. We Canadian CEOs would love to pay our staff more, but our companies frankly suck compared to the powerhouse companies in the US. We just aren’t profitable enough. I think if you dig around, you will find that US tech companies are far better funded and thus working on things that generate more upside - for everyone. Another thing to consider is that there is a massive bull market going on. And tech is at the frothy end of it. Those RSUs are great when stock is valuable and companies are flush. When the market tanks, they won’t be so hot anymore.

linguist_1 9y ago
Second grade tech attracts second grade employees and second grade funding. That's the law of the market. Vancouver is interesting because it's also where a lot of american firms set shops in order to house employees that can't qualify for a US visa.
piva00 9y ago
How is the investors' risk mentality over there in Canada? I don't think the problem is profitability but simply money: US startups/companies have easier access to money as investors are willing to take more risks. I see the same effect here in Europe, companies have to run more "tightly" and carefully because money is not easy to come, not many will have a deep line of credit if their companies' life depend on money, getting new rounds of investment is expensive so you have to do with the money you have now and the little revenue you are getting.
- ttul 9y ago
  There is way less risk tolerance in Canada. But more crucially, government policy does not reward risk taking so favorably, and a heavy presence of government in the funding of tech through a generous tax credit crowds out private investment. All this being said, I think it’s even more significant that tech investment and talent is concentrated on the Bay Area, and to a more corporate extent on Seattle with Amazon and Microsoft. Also, Canadian companies and employees whine too much. My attitude is: if you think you’d be better off in the US, it’s easy to just move there. You will earn more, and your company will be exposed to more funding AND much hotter competition for talent. So you’d better have a really amazing idea.
- apercu 9y ago
  Canada (at least Ontario, I can't speak for the rest of the country) is significantly more risk averse than the US. On one hand it's a little annoying (you sort of have to talk a certain language here (meaning, project managers all use the same phrases, executives all talk the same, etc...) to truly fit in and rocking the boat isn't really celebrated. On the other hand, Canadians don't celebrate failure (think Trump or someone else who has multiple bankruptcies taking down companies and negatively affecting the workers) anywhere near as much as we Americans seem to.
- nasalgoat 9y ago
  We had to go to the US to get funding, and even then it's not an equity investment, instead it's convertible. Canadians are simply risk-adverse, or are more comfortable with oil and gas or basic financial services.
chrisseaton 9y ago
But maybe if you paid more, you'd reduce the brain drain, and then maybe you'd be able to do better work and be more profitable? Paying more is an investment.
- ttul 9y ago
  That’s possible, but why would I pay more when I can get great people at the market rate here? I mean, I work with really great people from all over the world.
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    I thought you said that there was a brain-drain problem that people wanted to fix? If you are getting people that as as talented as you need at prices you want to pay then there's no brain-drain problem is there? But you also said the companies just didn't do as well as the US companies. Maybe with better pay you could attract better people to help fix that. I mean you're the one who said that there was a problem - the companies don't make enough money. That's why'd you want to pay more.
    - whack 9y ago
      If you look at most successful companies, high-cash-compensation comes after the company has become successful enough to afford it, not the other way around. Back when Facebook/Google were unestablished startups, their cash compensation wasn't anything to brag about.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

linguist_1 9y ago

That CEO is delusional. The work culture is actually miles ahead in the United States too. A lot of it has to do with the respect that comes with a good salary. You are far more likely to treat an employee worth 120k as less expandable than someone worth 60k.