4 ms·

Lifestyle plays a part in where and how you live though. Kids may not require a car in downtown Toronto, but all the nice kid-oriented programs are uptown, wher

by lhorie 9y ago

Lifestyle plays a part in where and how you live though. Kids may not require a car in downtown Toronto, but all the nice kid-oriented programs are uptown, where you do need a car to get around. Similarly, living in SF with two kids, I don't technically _need_ a car since MUNI coverage is decent, but we have a fast-paced lifestyle: it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, etc, etc... in a single day. Much like a house becomes a home, the car becomes a "base": it's a place for snacks and naps for the kids, for radio music and breaks, it's where we leave the bags of things to be returned to the mall after brunch, or the three layers of sweaters that are too hot to wear at noon but we'll definitely need on the way home at dusk, it's where we take pictures of the latest ice cream mess and where we have yelling contests when we get lost even though we have 2 GPS-enabled devices running. We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring, far more exhausting, and far less fun.

wpietri 9y ago
A tangent: > the car becomes a "base" This is the biggest divide I see when talking with people about future ownership of self-driving cars: will they consume it as an on-demand service, or will they own it outright? Some are vehemently in the "I'd never own a car again" camp, and others say "I'll buy one right away". People with kids seem much more likely to say the latter. It's not just transportation, it's a mobile room of the house.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  I imagine that depends on the kid's age. When they're small, having a "mobile room" (I love this concept) is great - a place to store the car seat, the stroller, extra clothes, diapers, some backup formula, etc. As they get older, they need less and less accoutrements, until everything they need can fit in their pockets.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  If we are casting votes, put me in the “very soon won’t own a car” camp and it’s because I have a kid. My wife and I each gave up cars we loved because they didn’t make sense for our new kid oriented life. The econobox we have instead we both hate and will likely replace with “nothing” when it becomes cost stupid to own. I might buy a car after that but it will be pure toy.
NKZZ 9y ago
> it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, The idea of going to physical stores to browse articles has become mind numbing to me. 'Regularly going to costco, ikea' when I can just order on amazon, get ikea to deliver to my home, get non-perishable/fresh food online from supermarkets that do home deliveries, have 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for (European cities are nice like that). > We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring Maybe for you. > far more exhausting Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting than going through the mad labyrinth of Ikea that was built to keep you in the store for the longest time possible. Just the thought of having to find the exit again makes me feel hypertension.
- lhorie 9y ago
  > Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting Fair. But on the other hand, having ice cream and meatballs at Ikea is a thing. You also need to account for cost of delivery and for returning things. And that's just ikea-related things we do. > 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for That describes downtown of any half decent metropolitan city anywhere, not just europe. I already mentioned the issue with that though: you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers. Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, lift lock tour, trips of various lengths are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. Driving three towns over to ride in a carousel one afternoon "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done just for the heck of it. Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-fusion-sushi-roll metrosexual lifestyle? Sure. But I think having a car opens a wider breadth of experiences.
  - NKZZ 9y ago
    > you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers With two, that would be complicated. It's really not that uncommon to see parents ride with one though, with that sort of equipment : https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide/ https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide... > Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, trips of various lengths, lift lock tour are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. That really depends on location. Living in a southern French town that has public transportation (bus and tramway) that leads to nice beach towns in 20 to 30 min, fishing is not an activity we lack. Leaving the city to get to the bordering countryside for activities like picking fruits, nuts and wild vegetables also takes about 30 min. When I was a kid I didn't need for my father to be home and drive me around if I wanted to go out and have fun eating wild nuts and berries. France has a powerful train network and no matter where you live here, you're always close to a ski station, kinda. > Drive three towns over one afternoon to ride in a carousel "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done for the heck of it. And the sort of attitude your grand-children will rightly judge you for considering the horrible impact your vacuous consumerism you're calling 'breadth' of experiences is having on this world. I would have abstained from this remark were it not for this latter quip : > Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-crepe metrosexual lifestyle? So, if we're not proudly rolling coal we are instagramming metrosexuals, probably wearing fedoras and tipping it at m'lady? have you gone and looked at a mirror yet? This thread in general was one of the most revealing thing I've ever read about Americans and their view of the world. Particularly the guy who wouldn't even walk one kilometer : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 And the other one to comment on wutaboutwinter. Maybe it's time we hit the reset button on civilization.
hycaria 9y ago
Consuming less never enters the equation, does it ?
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  You try consuming less after you have a kid.
  - jpetso 9y ago
    Also considering the other sub-thread, it does appear that having kids will incentivize consuming more. There are gaping needs that are most easily solved with big cars, big houses, etc., and I don't think it's necessarily productive to chastise anyone for not going out of your way to avoid these choices. For people who are considering having kids in the future and care about consuming less, consider that the largest positive ecological impact you can probably make is to have fewer kids. It's important to consider this before deciding on kids, because once they're around, the house is stacked against you in terms of switching to (or retaining) low-consumption habits.
  - hycaria 9y ago
    I always hear this. Yet some families manage to travel or sail the world with a few belongings. It's just social pressure, not vital need.

by lhorie 9y ago

wpietri 9y ago

A tangent: > the car becomes a "base" This is the biggest divide I see when talking with people about future ownership of self-driving cars: will they consume it as an on-demand service, or will they own it outright? Some are vehemently in the "I'd never own a car again" camp, and others say "I'll buy one right away". People with kids seem much more likely to say the latter. It's not just transportation, it's a mobile room of the house.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
I imagine that depends on the kid's age. When they're small, having a "mobile room" (I love this concept) is great - a place to store the car seat, the stroller, extra clothes, diapers, some backup formula, etc. As they get older, they need less and less accoutrements, until everything they need can fit in their pockets.
kasey_junk 9y ago
If we are casting votes, put me in the “very soon won’t own a car” camp and it’s because I have a kid. My wife and I each gave up cars we loved because they didn’t make sense for our new kid oriented life. The econobox we have instead we both hate and will likely replace with “nothing” when it becomes cost stupid to own. I might buy a car after that but it will be pure toy.

NKZZ 9y ago

> it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, The idea of going to physical stores to browse articles has become mind numbing to me. 'Regularly going to costco, ikea' when I can just order on amazon, get ikea to deliver to my home, get non-perishable/fresh food online from supermarkets that do home deliveries, have 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for (European cities are nice like that). > We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring Maybe for you. > far more exhausting Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting than going through the mad labyrinth of Ikea that was built to keep you in the store for the longest time possible. Just the thought of having to find the exit again makes me feel hypertension.

lhorie 9y ago
> Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting Fair. But on the other hand, having ice cream and meatballs at Ikea is a thing. You also need to account for cost of delivery and for returning things. And that's just ikea-related things we do. > 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for That describes downtown of any half decent metropolitan city anywhere, not just europe. I already mentioned the issue with that though: you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers. Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, lift lock tour, trips of various lengths are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. Driving three towns over to ride in a carousel one afternoon "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done just for the heck of it. Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-fusion-sushi-roll metrosexual lifestyle? Sure. But I think having a car opens a wider breadth of experiences.
- NKZZ 9y ago
  > you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers With two, that would be complicated. It's really not that uncommon to see parents ride with one though, with that sort of equipment : https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide/ https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide... > Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, trips of various lengths, lift lock tour are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. That really depends on location. Living in a southern French town that has public transportation (bus and tramway) that leads to nice beach towns in 20 to 30 min, fishing is not an activity we lack. Leaving the city to get to the bordering countryside for activities like picking fruits, nuts and wild vegetables also takes about 30 min. When I was a kid I didn't need for my father to be home and drive me around if I wanted to go out and have fun eating wild nuts and berries. France has a powerful train network and no matter where you live here, you're always close to a ski station, kinda. > Drive three towns over one afternoon to ride in a carousel "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done for the heck of it. And the sort of attitude your grand-children will rightly judge you for considering the horrible impact your vacuous consumerism you're calling 'breadth' of experiences is having on this world. I would have abstained from this remark were it not for this latter quip : > Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-crepe metrosexual lifestyle? So, if we're not proudly rolling coal we are instagramming metrosexuals, probably wearing fedoras and tipping it at m'lady? have you gone and looked at a mirror yet? This thread in general was one of the most revealing thing I've ever read about Americans and their view of the world. Particularly the guy who wouldn't even walk one kilometer : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 And the other one to comment on wutaboutwinter. Maybe it's time we hit the reset button on civilization.

hycaria 9y ago

Consuming less never enters the equation, does it ?

pavel_lishin 9y ago
You try consuming less after you have a kid.
- jpetso 9y ago
  Also considering the other sub-thread, it does appear that having kids will incentivize consuming more. There are gaping needs that are most easily solved with big cars, big houses, etc., and I don't think it's necessarily productive to chastise anyone for not going out of your way to avoid these choices. For people who are considering having kids in the future and care about consuming less, consider that the largest positive ecological impact you can probably make is to have fewer kids. It's important to consider this before deciding on kids, because once they're around, the house is stacked against you in terms of switching to (or retaining) low-consumption habits.
- hycaria 9y ago
  I always hear this. Yet some families manage to travel or sail the world with a few belongings. It's just social pressure, not vital need.