8 ms·

I'm in a similar situation, but from what I gather lifestyle factors heavily into the "do I need/want a car" equation. Kids, for example, usually mandate a car.

by d4mi3n 9y ago

I'm in a similar situation, but from what I gather lifestyle factors heavily into the "do I need/want a car" equation. Kids, for example, usually mandate a car. Outdoor activities or any hobby that requires you haul around a lot of gear can also make having your own transportation a lot more appealing.

cozzyd 9y ago
I see people taking strollers on the bus all the time...
- icebraining 9y ago
  Same here. Also bicycles with extra seats, if you happen to live in a city with some minimal infrastructure for it.
- jethro_tell 9y ago
  we take our kids on the bus its fine, but not practical for daily commute, we drop all 4 of us off at a different spot on the way into the city. Just no good way to do that on the bus. once they are both in school, (and the school that is being remodeled so one of them is going across town, we should be able to take transit daily and the kids can walk too from school. There's more to it than if they can walk on and off the bus.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
That strongly depends on where you live. Kids don't require a car in New York, but I can't imagine living in a suburb of Dallas without one.
- lhorie 9y ago
  Lifestyle plays a part in where and how you live though. Kids may not require a car in downtown Toronto, but all the nice kid-oriented programs are uptown, where you do need a car to get around. Similarly, living in SF with two kids, I don't technically _need_ a car since MUNI coverage is decent, but we have a fast-paced lifestyle: it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, etc, etc... in a single day. Much like a house becomes a home, the car becomes a "base": it's a place for snacks and naps for the kids, for radio music and breaks, it's where we leave the bags of things to be returned to the mall after brunch, or the three layers of sweaters that are too hot to wear at noon but we'll definitely need on the way home at dusk, it's where we take pictures of the latest ice cream mess and where we have yelling contests when we get lost even though we have 2 GPS-enabled devices running. We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring, far more exhausting, and far less fun.
  - wpietri 9y ago
    A tangent: > the car becomes a "base" This is the biggest divide I see when talking with people about future ownership of self-driving cars: will they consume it as an on-demand service, or will they own it outright? Some are vehemently in the "I'd never own a car again" camp, and others say "I'll buy one right away". People with kids seem much more likely to say the latter. It's not just transportation, it's a mobile room of the house.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      I imagine that depends on the kid's age. When they're small, having a "mobile room" (I love this concept) is great - a place to store the car seat, the stroller, extra clothes, diapers, some backup formula, etc. As they get older, they need less and less accoutrements, until everything they need can fit in their pockets.
    - kasey_junk 9y ago
      If we are casting votes, put me in the “very soon won’t own a car” camp and it’s because I have a kid. My wife and I each gave up cars we loved because they didn’t make sense for our new kid oriented life. The econobox we have instead we both hate and will likely replace with “nothing” when it becomes cost stupid to own. I might buy a car after that but it will be pure toy.
  - NKZZ 9y ago
    > it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, The idea of going to physical stores to browse articles has become mind numbing to me. 'Regularly going to costco, ikea' when I can just order on amazon, get ikea to deliver to my home, get non-perishable/fresh food online from supermarkets that do home deliveries, have 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for (European cities are nice like that). > We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring Maybe for you. > far more exhausting Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting than going through the mad labyrinth of Ikea that was built to keep you in the store for the longest time possible. Just the thought of having to find the exit again makes me feel hypertension.
sebleon 9y ago
> Outdoor Activities Renting a car (via Getaround, Zipar) on weekends can be cost effective
- jgust 9y ago
  I don't find Zipcar all that affordable except for the very shortest of trips (read: < 3 hours). Anything over that and you're better off renting a vehicle for the day through traditional routes.
  - kazinator 9y ago
    I can get a car from AVIS for $30 to $40 CAD per day (not including gas: typically that is another $10-12 or so). I have a membership in a car share, but I rarely bother with it for the above reason. For an hour or two or something, it's good. Most recently used it for trips to emergency. I mean, the co-op car is out there on the street, walking distance, whereas you need a reservation for the rental car, can only get it during the opening hours, from an outfit that is several miles away. Yet, there is no guarantee that the share cars will be there for emergencies; it's just luck. If it's 3 a.m. the odds are excellent. 3 p.m. on a Saturday; not so good.
  - yeukhon 9y ago
    Same experience. I can rent for $100 for the full day. Problem is usually I have to pick up the car from the airport since local garages office hours are limited. There is very few available on the weekend.
    - markkanof 9y ago
      Zipcar usually has both and hourly and day rate. The day rate is typically something like $85 and the process of picking up the car is typically much easier than a traditional rental.
      - yeukhon 9y ago
        Don’t forget you have to add up taxes and other shitty fees. They come out like $100+ for Zipcar. Those $7.5 an hour deal is hard to get because they run out quick and then the ones left are far to pick up - at that point just call Uber or give up...
ihaveajob 9y ago
We do have a car and a toddler. The car sits idle most days, maybe once a week we get on it to go somewhere where it's inconvenient by bike or transit. For his first year we didn't have a car. This is in SF and Berkeley. A lot of people, even those with kids, could perfectly ditch their cars, rent occasionally and come out ahead in terms of costs (and lifestyle).
- j2bax 9y ago
  One thing I've wondered is how people deal with car seats with Uber/Lyft/Taxi's. Do they carry their own with them and take the time to install it and uninstall it? Do you just take the bus and not worry about a car seat?
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Taxi's are usually exempt, Uber will provide a car seat for a surcharge of $10 in some locations, not sure about Lyft.
    - throwaway1X2 9y ago
      > Taxi's are usually exempt From local laws. From physical laws they are not. As a kid long time ago, I was sitting in a Fiat 124 when a bus driver wasn't paying attention to the road ahead and hit the stationary car on intersection in full city speed, thankfully it was direct hit from behind and there was nothing in front of the car, so there were no serious and only some very light injuries, but it was ugly. But I cannot image having a kid sitting freely in a lap nowadays just because the car in question is exempt from regulations. There doesn't even have to be a collision, emergency braking (either human or autonomous) is enough to throw the kid off against the car interior and sustain injuries (yep, had that too in the old no-rear-seat-belt-times when an ambulance without siren appeared oncoming wrong way, almost bit my tongue off). Don't use restraint systems just when they are required by regulations. And especially in nowadays tenfold traffic.
      - jacquesm 9y ago
rosege 9y ago
or a dog
gaius 9y ago
Outdoor activities or any hobby that requires you haul around a lot of gear Indeed, this is something that gets totally missed by advocates of on-demand self-driving yadda yadda, because they live in densely populated cities and socialise and get entertainment almost exclusively online. That demographic is overrepresented on HN. Most people who own cars who might use them to commute during the week use them for fun stuff at the weekends too, for which glorified taxis are just not suitable.
- funwithjustin 9y ago
  That's what Zipcar (or its competitors) is for. In most cases us city-dwellers still save money on short-term rentals over the cost of car ownership.
  - gaius 9y ago
    A zipcar’s not really for the use case of a weekend away tho’. It would be a traditional rental like Hertz or Avis, then you have to pick it up the night before, load it, then when you get back late unload it, drop it off, then get back home by some other means...
    - xapata 9y ago
      Why not? I use ZipCar for long weekends frequently.
      - ebragg09 9y ago
        well, because it has a max 180 mile per day limit with per-mile costs above that. So if you're staying overnight, that's one thing, but doing a 2 hour, go kayaking, 2 hours back type drive doesn't work.
        xapata 9y ago
        2 hours each way for a day-trip?! I'm always shocked that people suggest that much driving as a proportion of the total trip time.
deepGem 9y ago
Depends on where you live. Even with kids, you don't need a car in London. You can rent cars over the weekends. Hauling groceries is a PITA but with a good backpack, this is also solved. If you live in some place like Barbican, everything is around your doorstep, so no need to haul groceries. The downside - you pay higher rents. Outdoor activities - you can rent over the weekends unless you are kayaking, skiing or climbing and don't want to haul gear in and out of your car every time you reach home.
acranox 9y ago
It still depends where you live. A city with good public transit and cycling infra structure and stuff you can walk to, still means you can have a kid and not need a car.

by d4mi3n 9y ago

cozzyd 9y ago

I see people taking strollers on the bus all the time...

icebraining 9y ago
Same here. Also bicycles with extra seats, if you happen to live in a city with some minimal infrastructure for it.
jethro_tell 9y ago
we take our kids on the bus its fine, but not practical for daily commute, we drop all 4 of us off at a different spot on the way into the city. Just no good way to do that on the bus. once they are both in school, (and the school that is being remodeled so one of them is going across town, we should be able to take transit daily and the kids can walk too from school. There's more to it than if they can walk on and off the bus.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

That strongly depends on where you live. Kids don't require a car in New York, but I can't imagine living in a suburb of Dallas without one.

lhorie 9y ago
Lifestyle plays a part in where and how you live though. Kids may not require a car in downtown Toronto, but all the nice kid-oriented programs are uptown, where you do need a car to get around. Similarly, living in SF with two kids, I don't technically _need_ a car since MUNI coverage is decent, but we have a fast-paced lifestyle: it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, etc, etc... in a single day. Much like a house becomes a home, the car becomes a "base": it's a place for snacks and naps for the kids, for radio music and breaks, it's where we leave the bags of things to be returned to the mall after brunch, or the three layers of sweaters that are too hot to wear at noon but we'll definitely need on the way home at dusk, it's where we take pictures of the latest ice cream mess and where we have yelling contests when we get lost even though we have 2 GPS-enabled devices running. We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring, far more exhausting, and far less fun.
- wpietri 9y ago
  A tangent: > the car becomes a "base" This is the biggest divide I see when talking with people about future ownership of self-driving cars: will they consume it as an on-demand service, or will they own it outright? Some are vehemently in the "I'd never own a car again" camp, and others say "I'll buy one right away". People with kids seem much more likely to say the latter. It's not just transportation, it's a mobile room of the house.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    I imagine that depends on the kid's age. When they're small, having a "mobile room" (I love this concept) is great - a place to store the car seat, the stroller, extra clothes, diapers, some backup formula, etc. As they get older, they need less and less accoutrements, until everything they need can fit in their pockets.
  - kasey_junk 9y ago
    If we are casting votes, put me in the “very soon won’t own a car” camp and it’s because I have a kid. My wife and I each gave up cars we loved because they didn’t make sense for our new kid oriented life. The econobox we have instead we both hate and will likely replace with “nothing” when it becomes cost stupid to own. I might buy a car after that but it will be pure toy.
- NKZZ 9y ago
  > it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, The idea of going to physical stores to browse articles has become mind numbing to me. 'Regularly going to costco, ikea' when I can just order on amazon, get ikea to deliver to my home, get non-perishable/fresh food online from supermarkets that do home deliveries, have 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for (European cities are nice like that). > We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring Maybe for you. > far more exhausting Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting than going through the mad labyrinth of Ikea that was built to keep you in the store for the longest time possible. Just the thought of having to find the exit again makes me feel hypertension.

sebleon 9y ago

> Outdoor Activities Renting a car (via Getaround, Zipar) on weekends can be cost effective

jgust 9y ago
I don't find Zipcar all that affordable except for the very shortest of trips (read: < 3 hours). Anything over that and you're better off renting a vehicle for the day through traditional routes.
- kazinator 9y ago
  I can get a car from AVIS for $30 to $40 CAD per day (not including gas: typically that is another $10-12 or so). I have a membership in a car share, but I rarely bother with it for the above reason. For an hour or two or something, it's good. Most recently used it for trips to emergency. I mean, the co-op car is out there on the street, walking distance, whereas you need a reservation for the rental car, can only get it during the opening hours, from an outfit that is several miles away. Yet, there is no guarantee that the share cars will be there for emergencies; it's just luck. If it's 3 a.m. the odds are excellent. 3 p.m. on a Saturday; not so good.
- yeukhon 9y ago
  Same experience. I can rent for $100 for the full day. Problem is usually I have to pick up the car from the airport since local garages office hours are limited. There is very few available on the weekend.
  - markkanof 9y ago
    Zipcar usually has both and hourly and day rate. The day rate is typically something like $85 and the process of picking up the car is typically much easier than a traditional rental.
    - yeukhon 9y ago
      Don’t forget you have to add up taxes and other shitty fees. They come out like $100+ for Zipcar. Those $7.5 an hour deal is hard to get because they run out quick and then the ones left are far to pick up - at that point just call Uber or give up...

ihaveajob 9y ago

We do have a car and a toddler. The car sits idle most days, maybe once a week we get on it to go somewhere where it's inconvenient by bike or transit. For his first year we didn't have a car. This is in SF and Berkeley. A lot of people, even those with kids, could perfectly ditch their cars, rent occasionally and come out ahead in terms of costs (and lifestyle).

j2bax 9y ago
One thing I've wondered is how people deal with car seats with Uber/Lyft/Taxi's. Do they carry their own with them and take the time to install it and uninstall it? Do you just take the bus and not worry about a car seat?
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Taxi's are usually exempt, Uber will provide a car seat for a surcharge of $10 in some locations, not sure about Lyft.
  - throwaway1X2 9y ago
    > Taxi's are usually exempt From local laws. From physical laws they are not. As a kid long time ago, I was sitting in a Fiat 124 when a bus driver wasn't paying attention to the road ahead and hit the stationary car on intersection in full city speed, thankfully it was direct hit from behind and there was nothing in front of the car, so there were no serious and only some very light injuries, but it was ugly. But I cannot image having a kid sitting freely in a lap nowadays just because the car in question is exempt from regulations. There doesn't even have to be a collision, emergency braking (either human or autonomous) is enough to throw the kid off against the car interior and sustain injuries (yep, had that too in the old no-rear-seat-belt-times when an ambulance without siren appeared oncoming wrong way, almost bit my tongue off). Don't use restraint systems just when they are required by regulations. And especially in nowadays tenfold traffic.
    - jacquesm 9y ago

rosege 9y ago

or a dog

gaius 9y ago

Outdoor activities or any hobby that requires you haul around a lot of gear Indeed, this is something that gets totally missed by advocates of on-demand self-driving yadda yadda, because they live in densely populated cities and socialise and get entertainment almost exclusively online. That demographic is overrepresented on HN. Most people who own cars who might use them to commute during the week use them for fun stuff at the weekends too, for which glorified taxis are just not suitable.

funwithjustin 9y ago
That's what Zipcar (or its competitors) is for. In most cases us city-dwellers still save money on short-term rentals over the cost of car ownership.
- gaius 9y ago
  A zipcar’s not really for the use case of a weekend away tho’. It would be a traditional rental like Hertz or Avis, then you have to pick it up the night before, load it, then when you get back late unload it, drop it off, then get back home by some other means...
  - xapata 9y ago
    Why not? I use ZipCar for long weekends frequently.
    - ebragg09 9y ago
      well, because it has a max 180 mile per day limit with per-mile costs above that. So if you're staying overnight, that's one thing, but doing a 2 hour, go kayaking, 2 hours back type drive doesn't work.
      - xapata 9y ago
        2 hours each way for a day-trip?! I'm always shocked that people suggest that much driving as a proportion of the total trip time.

deepGem 9y ago

Depends on where you live. Even with kids, you don't need a car in London. You can rent cars over the weekends. Hauling groceries is a PITA but with a good backpack, this is also solved. If you live in some place like Barbican, everything is around your doorstep, so no need to haul groceries. The downside - you pay higher rents. Outdoor activities - you can rent over the weekends unless you are kayaking, skiing or climbing and don't want to haul gear in and out of your car every time you reach home.

acranox 9y ago

It still depends where you live. A city with good public transit and cycling infra structure and stuff you can walk to, still means you can have a kid and not need a car.