7 ms·

Automobile ownership is dumb, but ridesharing isn't the answer either. Cities need to invest in public infrastructure, especially fast efficient public transit.

Automobile ownership is dumb, but ridesharing isn't the answer either. Cities need to invest in public infrastructure, especially fast efficient public transit. People should also rediscover the joy of human power (walk, bike, run).

bpicolo 9y ago
I'm sure people in the US would love to walk to work, but the layout of US cities doesn't lend itself to that. People tend to live pretty dang far from where they work in the US.
- brndnmtthws 9y ago
  Move to a different city.
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    I don't believe 200 million people in NYC would lessen the impact of the sprawl effect.
  - y2bd 9y ago
    What are some cities with decent enough public transportation and urban planning for pedestrians that also don’t suffer from lack of housing/exhorbitant housing prices? The top cities I can think of that satisfy the former unfortunately also have the latter.
    - WaxProlix 9y ago
      Some of us have both! It'd be nice if it were as simple a tradeoff as that.
    - theseatoms 9y ago
      Chicago
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - gms7777 9y ago
      There are also a number of small cities that have decent enough public transportation and are fairly cheap, but fall short on job availability.
    - cozzyd 9y ago
      In the US, Chicago, Philadelphia and possibly Baltimore. In other countries, many many more cities.
  - rhombocombus 9y ago
    That's a non-starter for a lot of folks. Intellectual pursuit, family obligations, money, or a combination of those things can conspire to keep people somewhere whether they like their situation or not. I left academia so I could move where I please, but there was a steep price attached to that, and I wouldn't expect everyone to make the same decision.
  - Symmetry 9y ago
    There isn't enough room for everybody to do that and, without big changes in zoning laws, there never will be.
  - DougN7 9y ago
    I don't mean to be rude, but you need to get out of your bubble and see how the rest of the world lives. I hope you're living your dream, but everyone has different dreams, constraints, etc and they're not all inferior because they are different from yours.
- Jemmeh 9y ago
  And even when you live close it's not always safe to walk. There is no sidewalk near my house for a few miles. I live in a fairly nice area and so I do still see some people attempting to bike but I also constantly see them almost get ran over. It's a curvy road with ditches on each side so it's hard to get out of the way. And then when I -did- live close to work (about 2 blocks) I had to cross the town's main street, where I was catcalled about every day and on multiple occasions had a man follow me home even after telling them politely each time that I was not interested. Horray. People here don't walk. So you stand out. When I was in the city I could wear a big heavy coat and most people will ignore you because you look poor/ugly, here even in my most ratty coat people still followed me...ugh.
msmith10101 9y ago
Couldn't agree more. Ridesharing is a terrible solution to the transportation problem. And the artificial markets that Uber/Lyft have created here are not sustainable.
vlozko 9y ago
That's the bubble mentality of someone who lives in the city and/or doesn't have a family. How about you try hauling a baby in a stroller, diaper bag, and two other kids to a metro train (if you're so lucky to have one close) and then onto a bus. Ride sharing doesn't solve those problems, either, especially since you'd be in need of carseats. So no, automobile ownership is not dumb. There's plenty of use cases where it's the obvious solution.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  That is a fairly normal and commonly solved problem all over the United States. Lots and lots of people who can't afford to own cars deal with this and worst as a matter of course. Making life easier for people who choose to not own cars, has positive impact for those who can't own cars (and not to even begin on reducing the negative externalities). For the record, I own a car but also frequently hauled a baby stroller and a diaper bag to the metro train (though only for one kid). The secret was to have a stroller that was geared for walking not the SUV sized strollers so popular with the SUV set.
  - vlozko 9y ago
    I did specify being close to the city being a factor in how doable it is to go without a car. And even then, there are limiting factors that make car ownership worthwhile. Things like: 1. Monthly Costo/BJs run (with family in tow) 2. Visiting family that's over an hour away and not along any rail/bus line. 3. You live in a pretty remote area. Essentially, I'm saying that there are life choices and/or criteria met that makes lack of car ownership feasible. But since so many Americans live in the suburbs without easy access to public transportation, car ownership just makes the best sense for some people.
    - phil21 9y ago
      > But since so many Americans live in the suburbs without easy access to public transportation, car ownership just makes the best sense for some people. And I doubt many folks would have a problem with that, except for the fact that car transportation is by far the most heavily subsidized lifestyles around without even factoring environment or societal external costs. Add suburbs to that and the people living the worst possible lifestyle for the environment are being bailed out by the rest of the country who does not live like that. That's my major problem with car culture in the US. It's basically welfare for the wealthiest of Americans.
mseebach 9y ago
I'll take progress that actually, literally happened over armchair declarations of what people should be doing, thanks.
kasey_junk 9y ago
There are lots of cities where you can choose to live in particular places to minimize car usage. You don't need to redesign whole cities (and thats the ask to add fast efficient public transit) to support that. You can do localized changes such as tax incentives/penalties, subsidize parking less, zoning law changes that make it easier to mix businesses and residential etc. That plus smart investment in public transit and a mix of ride sharing are all part of the mix to decrease car usage.
- crzwdjk 9y ago
  The problem is that the number of such places is small and generally not growing particularly fast because transit isn't being expanded all that much (and often expansion comes in the form of rail lines to suburban park and rides), while zoning often prevents infill growth in existing neighborhoods. As a result, there is a scarcity of such places in many metro areas and they are becoming increasingly expensive as a result. California's proposed SB827 is an attempt to change this, and hopefully some progress will be made in this direction soon.
megaman22 9y ago
I'm sort of baffled at people exclaiming about the high costs of automobile ownership. Yeah, if you have a brand new car, it's expensive. But I've known a lot of people over the years that bomb around in $1000 third-hand Subarus and junky cars very inexpensively. Mostly because they have to - out in the boonies, there's no bus, there's no taxi, you either drive or get somebody else to.
unethical_ban 9y ago
You could have not come off so rude had you changed "dumb" to "not ideal". Are you saying it's dumb that as a country we require vehicle ownership in so many places? Or that people who own vehicles are dumb because they should all take almost non-existent public transit, or because they should lease? It's lazy to exclaim something so obviously incendiary without following it up with an explanation or a reasonable proposal - "everyone in the country move to a city" not being one. And for the record, I am from the South, I love vehicles and driving, and I also wish like Hell that we could have trains between the Texas metro areas, and public transit on the freeway corridors to the main business and residential districts. I also know it's a multi-generational effort, if it will ever happen.
MrQuincle 9y ago
Have a license, but never owned a car (close to 40 yrs old). And although I use Lyft extensively now I'm visiting the US for a few weeks, I'll never be able to rely only on ride sharing in the Netherlands from a cost perspective (and I love riding a train compared to a car). Good public transport is essential indeed.

bpicolo 9y ago

I'm sure people in the US would love to walk to work, but the layout of US cities doesn't lend itself to that. People tend to live pretty dang far from where they work in the US.

brndnmtthws 9y ago
Move to a different city.
- bpicolo 9y ago
  I don't believe 200 million people in NYC would lessen the impact of the sprawl effect.
- y2bd 9y ago
  What are some cities with decent enough public transportation and urban planning for pedestrians that also don’t suffer from lack of housing/exhorbitant housing prices? The top cities I can think of that satisfy the former unfortunately also have the latter.
  - WaxProlix 9y ago
    Some of us have both! It'd be nice if it were as simple a tradeoff as that.
  - theseatoms 9y ago
    Chicago
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - gms7777 9y ago
    There are also a number of small cities that have decent enough public transportation and are fairly cheap, but fall short on job availability.
  - cozzyd 9y ago
    In the US, Chicago, Philadelphia and possibly Baltimore. In other countries, many many more cities.
- rhombocombus 9y ago
  That's a non-starter for a lot of folks. Intellectual pursuit, family obligations, money, or a combination of those things can conspire to keep people somewhere whether they like their situation or not. I left academia so I could move where I please, but there was a steep price attached to that, and I wouldn't expect everyone to make the same decision.
- Symmetry 9y ago
  There isn't enough room for everybody to do that and, without big changes in zoning laws, there never will be.
- DougN7 9y ago
  I don't mean to be rude, but you need to get out of your bubble and see how the rest of the world lives. I hope you're living your dream, but everyone has different dreams, constraints, etc and they're not all inferior because they are different from yours.
Jemmeh 9y ago
And even when you live close it's not always safe to walk. There is no sidewalk near my house for a few miles. I live in a fairly nice area and so I do still see some people attempting to bike but I also constantly see them almost get ran over. It's a curvy road with ditches on each side so it's hard to get out of the way. And then when I -did- live close to work (about 2 blocks) I had to cross the town's main street, where I was catcalled about every day and on multiple occasions had a man follow me home even after telling them politely each time that I was not interested. Horray. People here don't walk. So you stand out. When I was in the city I could wear a big heavy coat and most people will ignore you because you look poor/ugly, here even in my most ratty coat people still followed me...ugh.

msmith10101 9y ago

Couldn't agree more. Ridesharing is a terrible solution to the transportation problem. And the artificial markets that Uber/Lyft have created here are not sustainable.

vlozko 9y ago

That's the bubble mentality of someone who lives in the city and/or doesn't have a family. How about you try hauling a baby in a stroller, diaper bag, and two other kids to a metro train (if you're so lucky to have one close) and then onto a bus. Ride sharing doesn't solve those problems, either, especially since you'd be in need of carseats. So no, automobile ownership is not dumb. There's plenty of use cases where it's the obvious solution.

kasey_junk 9y ago
That is a fairly normal and commonly solved problem all over the United States. Lots and lots of people who can't afford to own cars deal with this and worst as a matter of course. Making life easier for people who choose to not own cars, has positive impact for those who can't own cars (and not to even begin on reducing the negative externalities). For the record, I own a car but also frequently hauled a baby stroller and a diaper bag to the metro train (though only for one kid). The secret was to have a stroller that was geared for walking not the SUV sized strollers so popular with the SUV set.
- vlozko 9y ago
  I did specify being close to the city being a factor in how doable it is to go without a car. And even then, there are limiting factors that make car ownership worthwhile. Things like: 1. Monthly Costo/BJs run (with family in tow) 2. Visiting family that's over an hour away and not along any rail/bus line. 3. You live in a pretty remote area. Essentially, I'm saying that there are life choices and/or criteria met that makes lack of car ownership feasible. But since so many Americans live in the suburbs without easy access to public transportation, car ownership just makes the best sense for some people.
  - phil21 9y ago
    > But since so many Americans live in the suburbs without easy access to public transportation, car ownership just makes the best sense for some people. And I doubt many folks would have a problem with that, except for the fact that car transportation is by far the most heavily subsidized lifestyles around without even factoring environment or societal external costs. Add suburbs to that and the people living the worst possible lifestyle for the environment are being bailed out by the rest of the country who does not live like that. That's my major problem with car culture in the US. It's basically welfare for the wealthiest of Americans.

mseebach 9y ago

I'll take progress that actually, literally happened over armchair declarations of what people should be doing, thanks.

kasey_junk 9y ago

There are lots of cities where you can choose to live in particular places to minimize car usage. You don't need to redesign whole cities (and thats the ask to add fast efficient public transit) to support that. You can do localized changes such as tax incentives/penalties, subsidize parking less, zoning law changes that make it easier to mix businesses and residential etc. That plus smart investment in public transit and a mix of ride sharing are all part of the mix to decrease car usage.

crzwdjk 9y ago
The problem is that the number of such places is small and generally not growing particularly fast because transit isn't being expanded all that much (and often expansion comes in the form of rail lines to suburban park and rides), while zoning often prevents infill growth in existing neighborhoods. As a result, there is a scarcity of such places in many metro areas and they are becoming increasingly expensive as a result. California's proposed SB827 is an attempt to change this, and hopefully some progress will be made in this direction soon.

megaman22 9y ago

I'm sort of baffled at people exclaiming about the high costs of automobile ownership. Yeah, if you have a brand new car, it's expensive. But I've known a lot of people over the years that bomb around in $1000 third-hand Subarus and junky cars very inexpensively. Mostly because they have to - out in the boonies, there's no bus, there's no taxi, you either drive or get somebody else to.

unethical_ban 9y ago

You could have not come off so rude had you changed "dumb" to "not ideal". Are you saying it's dumb that as a country we require vehicle ownership in so many places? Or that people who own vehicles are dumb because they should all take almost non-existent public transit, or because they should lease? It's lazy to exclaim something so obviously incendiary without following it up with an explanation or a reasonable proposal - "everyone in the country move to a city" not being one. And for the record, I am from the South, I love vehicles and driving, and I also wish like Hell that we could have trains between the Texas metro areas, and public transit on the freeway corridors to the main business and residential districts. I also know it's a multi-generational effort, if it will ever happen.

MrQuincle 9y ago

Have a license, but never owned a car (close to 40 yrs old). And although I use Lyft extensively now I'm visiting the US for a few weeks, I'll never be able to rely only on ride sharing in the Netherlands from a cost perspective (and I love riding a train compared to a car). Good public transport is essential indeed.