8 ms·

I think the biggest impact is going to be felt with current generations of 18 year olds. My kid (about to be 18) has no interest in getting a driver's license

I think the biggest impact is going to be felt with current generations of 18 year olds. My kid (about to be 18) has no interest in getting a driver's license and neither are any of his friends. He's happy to be taking Uber and Lyft anywhere he goes. And between the cost of the vehicle and insurance, it's cheaper for me as well. When I was 16, I couldn't wait to get a car.

paulcole 9y ago
This is one of the few cases where I was ahead of my time. I turned 16 about 20 years ago and had 0 interest in a driver's license. I lived in an extremely rural area. My parents (rightly) said that I'd need to get a job to pay for a car. I figured why bother since I'd be paying for a car to drive to the job where I'd make money to pay for the car. Seemed like a complete waste of time and effort. 20 years later, I still have no plans to get a license but have changed my tune on work a bit.
- draw_down 9y ago
  Mmm, yeah. And it only took two decades.
- eachro 9y ago
  I similarly have no real intention to drive for my own sake or own a car, but since I do have a license I can be called on to do things for friends and family - moving/dropping or picking someone up at the airport/getting grocerties/etc. I think the added utility is a net good(well certainly for my loved ones if not myself).
- ryanianian 9y ago
  So you're relying on friends/family to do the driving if you're outside of lyft/public-transit areas e.g. on vacation in a rental car? Not having a car is a great idea if you can get away with it - not having a license basically means you can't help out when necessary.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    It doesn't become necessary unless you make it necessary. It makes some places harder or more expensive to get to, but there are plenty of other places to go to. It's a tradeoff, and obviously if you want to go places where there's no public transport options at all on a regular basis, it's probably a good idea to at least have a license, but for my part that's simply been enough of a reason to bother getting a license.
  - paulcole 9y ago
    >So you're relying on friends/family to do the driving if you're outside of lyft/public-transit areas e.g. on vacation in a rental car I actually have moral objections to both Lyft and Uber. Other than that I only take vacations in places where public transit is an option. For more rural vacations, I usually just ride my bike there. Plenty of fun places to bike to from where I live (Portland, OR). Otherwise, yes, someone else does the driving. My partner and I go out of town by car once or twice a year and she drives.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    It's funny the difficulty that car owner show at understanding non-car-owners. Why would you assume that someone without a driver's license would go on vacation in a rental car in the first place? By the way, this might not be true in the US, but in other places there's usually some sort of shared transit. Even if it's not a city bus or a ride-sharing network, there's usually some person with an unofficial "taxi" that drives others if you give them a call, or someone with a passenger van that makes a weekly trip to a city for a few regulars. Old and poor people everywhere can't drive cars, so these solutions are widespread, you just need to ask around (calling the local shops usually does the trick).
    - goialoq 9y ago
      Old and poor people suffer severe lifestyle degradations, the don't simply avoid the "waste" of care expenses.
      - icebraining 9y ago
ghaff 9y ago
I didn't drive a lot (or own a car) until I graduated from school. But I do have trouble wrapping my head around not getting a driver's license past a certain point--whether they get one while in school or not. Even had Uber/Lyft existed at the time, I literally couldn't have done my first job (I regularly had to drive hours to a job site) and I would have been at least reliant on other people at other jobs. Vacations and weekends would be even more limited. I certainly get not owning a car, especially in a city. That's basically a decision about economics and hassle. But even the couple I know who live in SF without a car use rentals and Zipcar all the time (in addition to Uber/Lyft).
- cozzyd 9y ago
  Some people are very bad drivers for various reasons (e.g. lack of depth perception, poor spatial awareness, whatever). While very little skill is required to get a license in most parts of the country, I fully support people not getting a license if they're bad at it.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    I absolutely understand that some people shouldn't/can't get a license. That will probably restrict what sort of activities they can do, etc. I don't really understand doing that by choice though. (And I'd hope employers would be understanding and supportive of an employee in that position. They're less likely to be as supportive of an employee who just doesn't want to do something even if it affects their ability to do their job.)
    - icebraining 9y ago
      I don't get why the employer would have to be "understanding and supportive". Either the job requires a driving license, in which case they should have asked at hiring time, or it doesn't. If they bait-and-switch the employee into driving despite not having asked for it, it's their own fault.
      - ghaff 9y ago
2sk21 9y ago
Exactly the same for my 20 year old daughter. This is really going to restrict where she can live in the US. I wonder if this may have the effect of making cities compete with each other for improving public transit.
- test6554 9y ago
  Or make them neglect it, justified by the ubiquity of ride-hailing services.
- rlabrecque 9y ago
  I'm in my 20s and have no desire to have a car, I need one where I live right now, but I'm about to make a move to one of the biggest cities in NA, and going carless. I wouldn't even want to live in a city where a car is a requirement.
ataturk 9y ago
When you were 16 insurance probably wasn't as huge a freaking scam as it is now. Damn rent seekers everywhere now.
stcredzero 9y ago
Can parents track the movements of their child through Lyft and Uber billing? If I were a caricature of Uber, I might be tempted to create an add-on subscription product that would let parents of minors track the movements of their children. The societal effect of something like this? Possibly awful. Many of today's social problems might stem from children being deprived of time being independent/autonomous. Society doesn't need free range chickens nearly as badly as it needs free range children.
- ghaff 9y ago
  The Lyft receipt shows the route taken. Of course, parents could turn on the contact tracking in an iPhone.
- icebraining 9y ago
  If you're old enough to get a driver's license, you're old enough to find how to get your own Uber account. And besides, driving their own car doesn't free them from that tracking: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5725196 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=572519...
- goialoq 9y ago
  Tracking your child's movements gives the far more autonomy than locking them in the house, for parents concerned about their children's whereabouts. Outside of cases of abuse (not to be discounted), parental location tracking isn't infringing on "free-range children"
bluedino 9y ago
>> He's happy to be taking Uber and Lyft anywhere he goes. What do kids who don't have any money do for a ride?
- realusername 9y ago
  They probably don't have any money to pay for the driving license and car expenses either
- starik36 9y ago
  Their parents drive them. Or give them money.
- smileysteve 9y ago
  They're certainly not driving cars; A car has high upfront costs in purchasing and insurance. High usage costs in gas, and maintenance. High volatility in maintenance and accidents. And high downtime in times to have a shop fix it correctly.
  - romwell 9y ago
    For my first car (2011), I was paid $1500 out of pocket, about $100/month in loan for 2 years, $40/month in insurance and about $80/month in gas, including out-of-town road trips and driving to airports 200 miles away. That was pre-Uber, but last time I took an Uber in that town, it was about $10 one way for "short" distances (e.g. 4 miles to go to a grocery store - things are spread out in TX). The car never had a high maintenance downtime (and only one fender-bender in the 7 years of ownership), and I can't account for maintenance; think it'd be under $80/month. So we have about $300/month for car ownership, or about 10-15 Uber roundtrips/month. I'd say, there's no clear-cut conclusion here.
- megy 9y ago
  Cycle. It is free once you have a bike, and they can be had very cheap.
  - dashundchen 9y ago
bshoemaker 9y ago
Using Uber and Lyft as a primary form of transportation being cheaper than an affordable car... I doubt it.

paulcole 9y ago

This is one of the few cases where I was ahead of my time. I turned 16 about 20 years ago and had 0 interest in a driver's license. I lived in an extremely rural area. My parents (rightly) said that I'd need to get a job to pay for a car. I figured why bother since I'd be paying for a car to drive to the job where I'd make money to pay for the car. Seemed like a complete waste of time and effort. 20 years later, I still have no plans to get a license but have changed my tune on work a bit.

draw_down 9y ago
Mmm, yeah. And it only took two decades.
eachro 9y ago
I similarly have no real intention to drive for my own sake or own a car, but since I do have a license I can be called on to do things for friends and family - moving/dropping or picking someone up at the airport/getting grocerties/etc. I think the added utility is a net good(well certainly for my loved ones if not myself).
ryanianian 9y ago
So you're relying on friends/family to do the driving if you're outside of lyft/public-transit areas e.g. on vacation in a rental car? Not having a car is a great idea if you can get away with it - not having a license basically means you can't help out when necessary.
- vidarh 9y ago
  It doesn't become necessary unless you make it necessary. It makes some places harder or more expensive to get to, but there are plenty of other places to go to. It's a tradeoff, and obviously if you want to go places where there's no public transport options at all on a regular basis, it's probably a good idea to at least have a license, but for my part that's simply been enough of a reason to bother getting a license.
- paulcole 9y ago
  >So you're relying on friends/family to do the driving if you're outside of lyft/public-transit areas e.g. on vacation in a rental car I actually have moral objections to both Lyft and Uber. Other than that I only take vacations in places where public transit is an option. For more rural vacations, I usually just ride my bike there. Plenty of fun places to bike to from where I live (Portland, OR). Otherwise, yes, someone else does the driving. My partner and I go out of town by car once or twice a year and she drives.
- icebraining 9y ago
  It's funny the difficulty that car owner show at understanding non-car-owners. Why would you assume that someone without a driver's license would go on vacation in a rental car in the first place? By the way, this might not be true in the US, but in other places there's usually some sort of shared transit. Even if it's not a city bus or a ride-sharing network, there's usually some person with an unofficial "taxi" that drives others if you give them a call, or someone with a passenger van that makes a weekly trip to a city for a few regulars. Old and poor people everywhere can't drive cars, so these solutions are widespread, you just need to ask around (calling the local shops usually does the trick).
  - goialoq 9y ago
    Old and poor people suffer severe lifestyle degradations, the don't simply avoid the "waste" of care expenses.
    - icebraining 9y ago

ghaff 9y ago

I didn't drive a lot (or own a car) until I graduated from school. But I do have trouble wrapping my head around not getting a driver's license past a certain point--whether they get one while in school or not. Even had Uber/Lyft existed at the time, I literally couldn't have done my first job (I regularly had to drive hours to a job site) and I would have been at least reliant on other people at other jobs. Vacations and weekends would be even more limited. I certainly get not owning a car, especially in a city. That's basically a decision about economics and hassle. But even the couple I know who live in SF without a car use rentals and Zipcar all the time (in addition to Uber/Lyft).

cozzyd 9y ago
Some people are very bad drivers for various reasons (e.g. lack of depth perception, poor spatial awareness, whatever). While very little skill is required to get a license in most parts of the country, I fully support people not getting a license if they're bad at it.
- ghaff 9y ago
  I absolutely understand that some people shouldn't/can't get a license. That will probably restrict what sort of activities they can do, etc. I don't really understand doing that by choice though. (And I'd hope employers would be understanding and supportive of an employee in that position. They're less likely to be as supportive of an employee who just doesn't want to do something even if it affects their ability to do their job.)
  - icebraining 9y ago
    I don't get why the employer would have to be "understanding and supportive". Either the job requires a driving license, in which case they should have asked at hiring time, or it doesn't. If they bait-and-switch the employee into driving despite not having asked for it, it's their own fault.
    - ghaff 9y ago

2sk21 9y ago

Exactly the same for my 20 year old daughter. This is really going to restrict where she can live in the US. I wonder if this may have the effect of making cities compete with each other for improving public transit.

test6554 9y ago
Or make them neglect it, justified by the ubiquity of ride-hailing services.
rlabrecque 9y ago
I'm in my 20s and have no desire to have a car, I need one where I live right now, but I'm about to make a move to one of the biggest cities in NA, and going carless. I wouldn't even want to live in a city where a car is a requirement.

ataturk 9y ago

When you were 16 insurance probably wasn't as huge a freaking scam as it is now. Damn rent seekers everywhere now.

stcredzero 9y ago

Can parents track the movements of their child through Lyft and Uber billing? If I were a caricature of Uber, I might be tempted to create an add-on subscription product that would let parents of minors track the movements of their children. The societal effect of something like this? Possibly awful. Many of today's social problems might stem from children being deprived of time being independent/autonomous. Society doesn't need free range chickens nearly as badly as it needs free range children.

ghaff 9y ago
The Lyft receipt shows the route taken. Of course, parents could turn on the contact tracking in an iPhone.
icebraining 9y ago
If you're old enough to get a driver's license, you're old enough to find how to get your own Uber account. And besides, driving their own car doesn't free them from that tracking: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5725196 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=572519...
goialoq 9y ago
Tracking your child's movements gives the far more autonomy than locking them in the house, for parents concerned about their children's whereabouts. Outside of cases of abuse (not to be discounted), parental location tracking isn't infringing on "free-range children"

bluedino 9y ago

>> He's happy to be taking Uber and Lyft anywhere he goes. What do kids who don't have any money do for a ride?

realusername 9y ago
They probably don't have any money to pay for the driving license and car expenses either
starik36 9y ago
Their parents drive them. Or give them money.
smileysteve 9y ago
They're certainly not driving cars; A car has high upfront costs in purchasing and insurance. High usage costs in gas, and maintenance. High volatility in maintenance and accidents. And high downtime in times to have a shop fix it correctly.
- romwell 9y ago
  For my first car (2011), I was paid $1500 out of pocket, about $100/month in loan for 2 years, $40/month in insurance and about $80/month in gas, including out-of-town road trips and driving to airports 200 miles away. That was pre-Uber, but last time I took an Uber in that town, it was about $10 one way for "short" distances (e.g. 4 miles to go to a grocery store - things are spread out in TX). The car never had a high maintenance downtime (and only one fender-bender in the 7 years of ownership), and I can't account for maintenance; think it'd be under $80/month. So we have about $300/month for car ownership, or about 10-15 Uber roundtrips/month. I'd say, there's no clear-cut conclusion here.
megy 9y ago
Cycle. It is free once you have a bike, and they can be had very cheap.
- dashundchen 9y ago

bshoemaker 9y ago

Using Uber and Lyft as a primary form of transportation being cheaper than an affordable car... I doubt it.