8 ms·

Whose going to be first to make the 'I always browse the Web with CSS disabled' post?

avian 9y ago
A more interesting question would be if it is possible to disable the "dynamic" part of the CSS in any browser. Things like ":hover", ":active" that this proof of concept abuses and leave just the more benign static styling rules.
- Tepix 9y ago
  Perhaps preventing the loading of URLs in the dynamic parts would be enough?
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    Probably not, you'd also need to disable a lot of other optimizations. For example, a browser will not load an image if it's set to `display: none` in CSS (at least not right away). That could be abused to then trigger the download when CSS changes without a URL needing to be on the CSS at any point.
vnchr 9y ago
Blind users can’t be seen.
- robin_reala 9y ago
  Screen readers interface with normal browsers, so JS and CSS will be loaded as per usual (unless the user has gone to the trouble of turning them off).
shirian 9y ago
Or, at least, disabling `url()` in CSS.
- CapacitorSet 9y ago
  Indeed, that would be enough to stop the dynamic tracking - no need to go full no-CSS.
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    Does any browser actually allow you to do that?
- kodablah 9y ago
  I'd say only for "content" and @font-face "src" for now.
HenryBemis 9y ago
'I always browse the Web with CSS disabled'!!!!111oneoneone /s (is this how it works??) Doesn't everyone?? ;)
yorwba 9y ago
Using lynx, the only thing that makes reading Hacker News somewhat inconvenient is the lack of indentation to show the nesting hierarchy, but otherwise it works quite well. Some other sites are so messed up that it's actually more comfortable to read them in a text-only browser that completely ignores CSS and replaces images by their alt-tags. Of course I frequently do want to look at images, so my main browser remains Firefox, but it's still useful to remember that other browsers with different tradeoffs exist and can be used. Sometimes, you really just want to read some text and don't need any of that fancy other stuff.
- hjek 9y ago
  True! I fixed that issue in the community maintained HN version here, https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/commit/0d6cea75d9028996a9ba581107c436e58d768d0f https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/commit/0d6cea75d902899... Would be nice if HN would fix it, too. I always browse HN using the links2 browser. No CSS! (Although elinks is pretty interesting, in that it's a text-only browser that implements some CSS.)
- williamdclt 9y ago
  Firefox's "reader view" is quite good for that (and to avoid bloggers terrible choice of fonts/font color/font size)
  - r3bl 9y ago
    If a website doesn't look like it was made in the last couple of years (think: Medium-like centered content with large fonts), I click that handy reader view button out of a habit. I can't stand reading articles with <18px font size. Some pages (like HN) I simply zoom in to something like 150%, but if it's just an article, hitting that button is easier to me than zooming in.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Links (a fork of lynx IIRC) does images, it might be off by default, can't recall. Back when I used Slackware it was handy to have a terminal based browser for looking up how to fix things.
rnhmjoj 9y ago
Well, I have firefox `layout.css.visited_links_enabled` set to false not to leak history.
- AgentME 9y ago
  Even if that's set to true (the default), doesn't Firefox prevent the page from reading the :visited state of links? I'm not sure what the privacy value of that pref is.
ddebernardy 9y ago
Wouldn't something like this be enough? ::before, ::after { content: '' !important; }
- talmand 9y ago
  No, easily defeated. It would start a selector specificity war.
- expertentipp 9y ago
  You have no idea how many websites you would break:) I've seen UI strings in "before" and "after" pseudoelements...
  - berelig 9y ago
    Don't think it would be a huge loss. Most common use case is for unicode characters to render font icons (i.e. font-awesome).
Daycrawler 9y ago
Stallman of course. > I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/womb/hacks.git https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it (using konqueror, which won't fetch from other sites in such a situation). https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
iapx88 9y ago
> Whose going to be first to make the 'I always browse the Web with CSS disabled' post? Is it time for a gopher[0] revival? 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)

A more interesting question would be if it is possible to disable the "dynamic" part of the CSS in any browser. Things like ":hover", ":active" that this proof of concept abuses and leave just the more benign static styling rules.

Tepix 9y ago
Perhaps preventing the loading of URLs in the dynamic parts would be enough?
- Klathmon 9y ago
  Probably not, you'd also need to disable a lot of other optimizations. For example, a browser will not load an image if it's set to `display: none` in CSS (at least not right away). That could be abused to then trigger the download when CSS changes without a URL needing to be on the CSS at any point.

vnchr 9y ago

Blind users can’t be seen.

robin_reala 9y ago
Screen readers interface with normal browsers, so JS and CSS will be loaded as per usual (unless the user has gone to the trouble of turning them off).

shirian 9y ago

Or, at least, disabling `url()` in CSS.

CapacitorSet 9y ago
Indeed, that would be enough to stop the dynamic tracking - no need to go full no-CSS.
- oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
  Does any browser actually allow you to do that?
kodablah 9y ago
I'd say only for "content" and @font-face "src" for now.

HenryBemis 9y ago

'I always browse the Web with CSS disabled'!!!!111oneoneone /s (is this how it works??) Doesn't everyone?? ;)

yorwba 9y ago

Using lynx, the only thing that makes reading Hacker News somewhat inconvenient is the lack of indentation to show the nesting hierarchy, but otherwise it works quite well. Some other sites are so messed up that it's actually more comfortable to read them in a text-only browser that completely ignores CSS and replaces images by their alt-tags. Of course I frequently do want to look at images, so my main browser remains Firefox, but it's still useful to remember that other browsers with different tradeoffs exist and can be used. Sometimes, you really just want to read some text and don't need any of that fancy other stuff.

hjek 9y ago
True! I fixed that issue in the community maintained HN version here, https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/commit/0d6cea75d9028996a9ba581107c436e58d768d0f https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/commit/0d6cea75d902899... Would be nice if HN would fix it, too. I always browse HN using the links2 browser. No CSS! (Although elinks is pretty interesting, in that it's a text-only browser that implements some CSS.)
williamdclt 9y ago
Firefox's "reader view" is quite good for that (and to avoid bloggers terrible choice of fonts/font color/font size)
- r3bl 9y ago
  If a website doesn't look like it was made in the last couple of years (think: Medium-like centered content with large fonts), I click that handy reader view button out of a habit. I can't stand reading articles with <18px font size. Some pages (like HN) I simply zoom in to something like 150%, but if it's just an article, hitting that button is easier to me than zooming in.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Links (a fork of lynx IIRC) does images, it might be off by default, can't recall. Back when I used Slackware it was handy to have a terminal based browser for looking up how to fix things.

rnhmjoj 9y ago

Well, I have firefox `layout.css.visited_links_enabled` set to false not to leak history.

AgentME 9y ago
Even if that's set to true (the default), doesn't Firefox prevent the page from reading the :visited state of links? I'm not sure what the privacy value of that pref is.

ddebernardy 9y ago

Wouldn't something like this be enough? ::before, ::after { content: '' !important; }

talmand 9y ago
No, easily defeated. It would start a selector specificity war.
expertentipp 9y ago
You have no idea how many websites you would break:) I've seen UI strings in "before" and "after" pseudoelements...
- berelig 9y ago
  Don't think it would be a huge loss. Most common use case is for unicode characters to render font icons (i.e. font-awesome).

Daycrawler 9y ago

Stallman of course. > I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/womb/hacks.git https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it (using konqueror, which won't fetch from other sites in such a situation). https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html

iapx88 9y ago

> Whose going to be first to make the 'I always browse the Web with CSS disabled' post? Is it time for a gopher[0] revival? 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)