6 ms·
To all the commenters too busy being aghast at giving money to a government to read the article: >Nigeria’s debt to Japan is the result of Overseas Development
by simplemath__ 9y ago
To all the commenters too busy being aghast at giving money to a government to read the article:
>Nigeria’s debt to Japan is the result of Overseas Development Assistance (ODA) provided by the Japanese government in 2014 for increased polio eradication. efforts.
>The country has made great strides in its efforts to eliminate the disease thanks to this funding.
>Nigeria did not record a wild case of polio from July 2014 to August 2016, when two cases were reported.
Presumably, the Gates Foundation wants to encourage state partnerships from nations like Japan in the service of eradicating solved diseases, regardless of a recipient nation's ability or willingness to settle incurred debts.
Money well spent.
- diego_moita 9y agoThis is the correct perspective. It seems that, Reddit style, many people here comment just the titles, don't read the articles. Polio is on the way to complete eradication all over the world. AFAIK the only place where it remains endemic is Baluchistan in Pakistan where the warlords are suspicious of vaccination agents. Victory on polio is a fantastic story that doesn't get the attention it deserves.
- tyrust 9y ago>Reddit style Just as much HN style, where top comments frequently bring up old discussions completely unrelated to the article's content (e.g. js article -> js is a mess, blockchain article -> blockchain is a bubble, megacorp article -> this is why i never use megacorp's products)
- jackaroe78 9y agommm source please
- nvr219 9y agommm mmm mmm
- noobermin 9y agoI've noticed what you pointed out is fairly common especially recently, but it wasn't always the case. Moreover, it's incumbent on us to be better than that so to reverse the trend.
- scubadude 9y agoIt's not a new problem. The term TFA is at least 18 years old; predates reddit, digg, and maybe even slashdot itself. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TFA https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TFA
- noobermin 9y agoThis is a side discussion, but what a fascinating piece of internet history, I had no idea.
- garrettgrimsley 9y agoJust came off an 11 month involuntary HN-hiatus and noticed that the level of discourse is markedly lower. Wondering whether it could be quantified over time. Maybe a NLP expert could chime in?
- oculusthrift 9y agowell last time they claimed to be giving vaccines in pakistan it was to collect genetic information against a us target.
- simplemath__ 9y agoYou're getting downvoted... but this did happen, and is likely to blame for polio's continued presence in western pakistan. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vacc...
- ascorbic 9y agoAnd, let's not diminish this: it's probably to blame for polio existing at all now.
- TeMPOraL 9y agoExactly. It is my belief that the people who ordered this should have their asses dragged in front of the UN and should be tried for crimes against humanity. You don't mess with vaccinations. Ever.
- adventured 9y agoIt wasn't the last time. Pakistan is an extremely large nation with 40+ years of substantial vaccination efforts by the US and West in general. It'd be fair to say that at least 99.9% of that effort was entirely innocent. The CIA doing what it did should have never happened obviously. That simultaneously doesn't excuse non-vaccination, which is extraordinarily inexpensive and could be performed by Pakistani government persons as a compromise.
- mschuster91 9y ago> and could be performed by Pakistani government persons as a compromise. Political opponents still can frame anyone associated with "being an US puppet"... and for the chemtrail-lovers with an addition of "they're not vaccinating you, they're putting tiny microchips into you". Do note I didn't make up that last one, it literally flew somewhere over my Facebook feed today.
- Recursing 9y ago> AFAIK the only place where it remains endemic is Baluchistan in Pakistan In 2017 there have been 13 wild cases in Afghanistan, 8 in Pakistan and it's still considered endemic in Nigeria (last known case in August 2016) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication#2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication#2017
- trumpsamerica 9y agoIt's not warlords. It's pak Govt. They jailed the Osama informer ffs.
- Consultant32452 9y agoThe thing that's weird to me is that an economy the size of Japan would even keep track of such a thing. The Japanese government could find that kind of money in the couch cushions in the name of humanitarian aid.
- simplemath__ 9y agoObviously there was something in the way, maybe bad blood between Japan and Nigeria. Who knows? Who cares? If the Gates Found. is engaging in a bit of 'dollar diplomacy' here, that's even extra value, IMO. This is high-test, globally impactful philanthropy, and deserves none of the cynical, socio-economic scrutiny it's receiving here.
- krapp 9y agoThis was a loan, possibly from the taxpayers, it wasn't charity. Governments don't just "lose track" of $76 million owed to them. Or at least, they shouldn't. Presumably, Nigeria agreed to the terms, so I don't see the issue.
- Consultant32452 9y agoI'm sure Nigeria did agree to the terms, but if I were a citizen of Japan I would be embarrassed that the money was not just gifted as part of a foreign aid program.
- krapp 9y agoI would probably feel the same way. But it was a loan, and if I were a citizen of Japan, I also might not be happy about the government loaning out that much money to a foreign country and then forgetting about it.
- Consultant32452 9y agoI didn't mean they should forget about it in the literal sense. I meant that when Nigeria started putting out the feelers for their loan to put the final nail in the coffin of polio someone in the international community, perhaps Japan, perhaps the US, should have just gifted them the money. The fact that it was a loan in the first place is the problem.
- danjoc 9y ago>Money well spent. There have been human costs too, http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/09/world/africa/in-nigeria-polio-vaccine-workers-are-killed-by-gunmen.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/09/world/africa/in-nigeria-po... Of the nine vaccination workers killed, "Most of the victims were women and were shot in the back of the head"
- newfoundglory 9y agoThat doesn’t seem immediately relevant, could you explain why you mentioned it here?
- ridgeguy 9y agoMight be irrelevant per HN guidelines. I took it as a reminder that doing something good may require not only exceptional courage, but one's life. I'm ok with the off-topic aspect of the post. I continue to be amazed and grateful we have such people.
- wallace_f 9y ago>I continue to be amazed and grateful we have such people That's a good thing to mention. Sometimes when I look at Washington, Wall St., or corporate actions, it makes me fear everyone is a hyper-rational sociopath willing to seek out and screw over the other for any profit. But sometimss I'm reminded of the ones who do good for the future of humanity, not just for their bank accounts.
- fragmede 9y agoDanjoc's linked article is about Nigerian Polio vaccine workers being killed in the line of duty back in 2013, which seems relevant to me, as a person dying is a very real, human cost of polio, all the money in the world cannot fix.