7 ms·

Bitcoin conf stopped taking Bitcoin payments because they don't work well enough

147 points by jbuzbee 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ryandvm 9y ago
I dunno, I suppose one wouldn't be surprised if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. That is, in its current form, Bitcoin is _terrible_ for general transactions. However, given its tremendous market capitalization, it may yet turn out to be a viable way to store value.
- mamon 9y ago
  >> it may yet turn out to be a viable way to store value Really? I think is just kind of post-factum rationalization, something that helps Bitcoin fans deal with their trauma and disillusionment after Bitcoin has failed.
  - jhwang5 9y ago
    There's deep parallels between Crypto fans and scientologists.
    - spookthesunset 9y ago
      Go to any penny stock forum on finance.yahoo.com and the parallels are even deeper. Bitcoin, and the entire crypto-space are basically souped up penny stocks for the 21st century.
      - matthewbauer 9y ago
        At least with penny stocks you own a real company, though.
  - Jotra7 9y ago
    Failed? I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I've heard naysayers like you since 2012. Sour fucking grapes, mate.
  - natalyarostova 9y ago
    As insufferable as the bitcoin True Believers are, so too are those who claim it is trivially true it is a worthless scam currency. If scientific inference on the world were easy, we wouldn't be so awful at predicting the future, and we wouldn't rely on randomized experiments (or observational causal inference) to uncover most truths we have uncovered as a species. The technology and use of bitcoin as a store of value is an open experimental question. The experiment is currently in progress. To believe you can infer the truth so clearly, either for or against, is the natural naïveté of the uncalibrated human mind. Not to claim no one can ever know the future, or that some people aren't talented at prediction. All the same, there are particularly bright people who can't come to an agreement on the future state of bitcoin and was it will offer. Why is that? Is one set simply wrong, so clearly?
- GBiT 9y ago
  I don't know what you think about Bitcoin as a store of value, but if you want to liquidate quickly your "store of value", with bitcoin it can be impossible on the peak. It should have another use cases to be a store of value.
  - robocat 9y ago
    Most investments, even cash, have some liquidity problems. Regardless, if you believe in investment diversity then transferring 0.1%‡ of your US stock holdings to bitcoin may make sense (depending upon transfer costs, liquidity requirements, and what exposure you think the US stock market has to bitcoin). ‡ Assuming US stock market capitalization is $250 trillion, and bitcoin capitalization is $250 billion.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  Given the massive value drop (>18% in the last month) and the crazy value growth (>1000% in the last year, figures according to https://www.finanzen.net/devisen/bitcoin-euro/chart https://www.finanzen.net/devisen/bitcoin-euro/chart), I'm not sure BTC is a viable way to store value... but one thing I'm certain is that BTC has lost its appeal as payment instrument due to ridiculous fees (20$ / tx, according to https://estimatefee.com/ https://estimatefee.com/) and the waiting times. The next 6-12 months imho will be decisive for BTC's future. [disclosure: holding ~500€ in BTC]
  - kbar13 9y ago
    why do you feel the need to disclose that
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      Because holding a non-laughable amount of any asset can (and does) influence my opinion, both on the present and the future. To disclose potential influences is (or at least should be) standard practice.
  - akerro 9y ago
    > I'm not sure BTC is a viable way to store value... BTC (and any deflationary CC) is still a better long term value holder than EUR or USD
    - Retric 9y ago
      If and only if it remains deflationary, someone could completely destroy Bitcoin by maintaining a 51% attack. I doubt China is going to go from nan to an attack, but confiscate all miners in China and they could easily do so. So, if Bitcoin could easily be worth nothing in 10 years, it's a poor Store of value.
      - akerro 9y ago
        >destroy Bitcoin by maintaining a 51% attack The 51% is a better chance attack, you can still try to perform it with 10% and succeed and you can try with 60% and fail. >Bitcoin could easily be worth nothing in 10 years, it's a poor Store of value. Gold is more and more used in electronics, less and less in jewellery, if we move to graphene-based computers gold will not have much place there and its value in USD will probably drop. One nuke on Hawaii or California will cause huge drop in value of USD compared to other currencies.
- vinchuco 9y ago
  > if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. no, but a bitcoin-is-the-future-of-currency conference, might surprise me
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- spookthesunset 9y ago
  > However, given its tremendous market capitalization, it may yet turn out to be a viable way to store value. The circular logic of bitcoin shysters never ceases to amaze. I have created a new coin called "sand coin". Each coin is a grain of sand from my backyard Yesterday my friend bought one grain of sand from me for $1. Therefore, given the fact that there is billions of sand grains in my backyard, their market cap is giant. Given its tremendous market cap, Sandcoin is a great store of value.
  - notadoc 9y ago
    Wow a sand-grain backed crypto? Sand on blockchain? Sandcoin is easily worth $100,000 per coin! It's the future of sand!
  - johndevor 9y ago
    You're using derogatory terms to make an argument which is not an argument. Secondly, you could make the same argument about gold.
    - skellera 9y ago
      This always gets brought up but gold is used for much more. It’s in electronics, people value it as jewelry, etc. I can go to a coin shop today and exchange my gold for a much smaller fee than Bitcoin. Gold has historically shown its ability to store value. If the fees come back down, all of the Bitcoin people will start saying they never called it a store of value. People just have to justify why they’re making irrational decisions.
      - aianus 9y ago
        Which coin shop is this with $0.01 spread and 0/0.20% maker/taker fees? I would like to go there.
      - johndevor 9y ago
        The vast majority of gold's value is simply a store of value, not electronics or jewelry.
- sandworm101 9y ago
  When did BC become a place to store value? It was meant to facilitate unblockable transactions. It was to replace visa, not gold.
  - brokensegue 9y ago
    they gave up on that when they realized that it could never scale even close to visa's transaction volume.
- akhatri_aus 9y ago
  > I suppose one wouldn't be surprised if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. What a false equivalence. That is specifically why processors like Bitpay exist, because Bitcoin _is_ meant for these type of transactions. You can't really shove gold down the computer screen.
- EpicEng 9y ago
  >I dunno, I suppose one wouldn't be surprised if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. except no one is using gold as a currency, and all of the crypto pushers are touting it as the currency of the future, yet they an't even use it at their own conference. No one is pushing gold as a currency, so I don't understand the analogy. These things are just not usable as currency yet, not even close. I have a hard time believing they ever will be even if they get past the technical issues.
- Chyzwar 9y ago
  Store value is real estate, equity, government bonds not overhyped cryptocurrency that can disappear tomorrow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value
- Chyzwar 9y ago
  Value store can be real estate, equity, government bonds not overhyped cryptocurrency that can disappear tomorrow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value
  - adamnemecek 9y ago
    It can but most likely won’t.
    - Chyzwar 9y ago
      Why do you think that bitcoins cant disappear tomorrow? Does it have government as a guarantee of value? (currency, bonds)? Does it have intrinsic underlying value (commodity, real estate)? Does it have ownership rights (equity)? If tomorrow crypto market crash, you will not be able to sell your bitcoins for 1$.
      - adamnemecek 9y ago
        His discussion has been had a billion times. The fact that you are asking the same questions means that you weren’t convinced by the answers, so the odds of my answers actually convincing you are very slim.
- Bitcoin_McPonzi 9y ago
  I've been to gold conferences in Australia and I paid my admission with a gold coin.
  - oliyoung 9y ago
    cough those are 90% copper, didn't have any gold in them
  - IncRnd 9y ago
    Are you sure it was a gold coin and not a golden coin?
110011 9y ago
Hahahahaha this is hilarious, where are all the bitcoin fanatics now hmmm? Does this confirm its singular status as a vehicle of enormous speculation or do we have to wait till people finally agree it is worth precisely zero US dollars...
- 110011 9y ago
  I see people downvoting my comment, but honestly if you think this is anything but hilarious then you may be too deep in this speculative bubble!
  - AlexAltea 9y ago
    Essentially because every HN post concerning cryptocurrencies has become a joke, and long threads of cryptofanatics and cryptosceptics throwing shit at each other. No one is willing to just have rational conversation on the points they agree/disagree with, but instead write attacks like: "Hahahahaha this is hilarious, where are all the bitcoin {fanatics,sceptics} now" that don't contribute to the discussion at all. You will always get downvoted by one of the sides. Personally, I would downvote you if I could for adding yet another stick to the bonfire. To be honest, this looks like a quarrel between baboons that have invested too much, and baboons that have shorted too much. I've never ever seen HN in such a state and hope to not see it.
  - mancerayder 9y ago
    People are going to downvote comments, whether it's pro or con BTC, where the level of conversation feels like Reddit or just generally low-effort me-too type stuff. "hahaha" type sarcasm is why many of us come here instead. Apologies for dissing Reddit, but that's what that reminds me of first. Like the other commenter said, it's about how rational the comments are.
kingo55 9y ago
This news was confirmed fake. The conference does accept Bitcoin.
- citricsquid 9y ago
  https://web.archive.org/web/20180111023048/https://btcmiami.com/tickets/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180111023048/https://btcmiami.... Due to network congestion and manual processing, we have closed ticket payments using Cryptocurrencies — Hopefully, next year there will be more unity in the community about scaling and global adoption becomes reality. We have, and always will, accept cryptocurrencies for our conferences, up to fourteen days before the event. However, due to the manual inputting of data in our ticketing platforms when paid in cryptocurrencies, we decided to shut down bitcoin payments for last minute sales due to print deadlines.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    I like how they give two what looks like entirely separate excuses.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  > This news was confirmed fake. [citation needed]
- mark_edward 9y ago
  Above comment confirmed as fake
Kinnard 9y ago
Bitcoin is made of software . . . do people not know that software can get better and better over time?? I used a js map function yesterday, worked like a charm!!!

147 points by jbuzbee 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

I dunno, I suppose one wouldn't be surprised if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. That is, in its current form, Bitcoin is _terrible_ for general transactions. However, given its tremendous market capitalization, it may yet turn out to be a viable way to store value.

mamon 9y ago
>> it may yet turn out to be a viable way to store value Really? I think is just kind of post-factum rationalization, something that helps Bitcoin fans deal with their trauma and disillusionment after Bitcoin has failed.
- jhwang5 9y ago
  There's deep parallels between Crypto fans and scientologists.
  - spookthesunset 9y ago
    Go to any penny stock forum on finance.yahoo.com and the parallels are even deeper. Bitcoin, and the entire crypto-space are basically souped up penny stocks for the 21st century.
    - matthewbauer 9y ago
      At least with penny stocks you own a real company, though.
- Jotra7 9y ago
  Failed? I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I've heard naysayers like you since 2012. Sour fucking grapes, mate.
- natalyarostova 9y ago
  As insufferable as the bitcoin True Believers are, so too are those who claim it is trivially true it is a worthless scam currency. If scientific inference on the world were easy, we wouldn't be so awful at predicting the future, and we wouldn't rely on randomized experiments (or observational causal inference) to uncover most truths we have uncovered as a species. The technology and use of bitcoin as a store of value is an open experimental question. The experiment is currently in progress. To believe you can infer the truth so clearly, either for or against, is the natural naïveté of the uncalibrated human mind. Not to claim no one can ever know the future, or that some people aren't talented at prediction. All the same, there are particularly bright people who can't come to an agreement on the future state of bitcoin and was it will offer. Why is that? Is one set simply wrong, so clearly?
GBiT 9y ago
I don't know what you think about Bitcoin as a store of value, but if you want to liquidate quickly your "store of value", with bitcoin it can be impossible on the peak. It should have another use cases to be a store of value.
- robocat 9y ago
  Most investments, even cash, have some liquidity problems. Regardless, if you believe in investment diversity then transferring 0.1%‡ of your US stock holdings to bitcoin may make sense (depending upon transfer costs, liquidity requirements, and what exposure you think the US stock market has to bitcoin). ‡ Assuming US stock market capitalization is $250 trillion, and bitcoin capitalization is $250 billion.
mschuster91 9y ago
Given the massive value drop (>18% in the last month) and the crazy value growth (>1000% in the last year, figures according to https://www.finanzen.net/devisen/bitcoin-euro/chart https://www.finanzen.net/devisen/bitcoin-euro/chart), I'm not sure BTC is a viable way to store value... but one thing I'm certain is that BTC has lost its appeal as payment instrument due to ridiculous fees (20$ / tx, according to https://estimatefee.com/ https://estimatefee.com/) and the waiting times. The next 6-12 months imho will be decisive for BTC's future. [disclosure: holding ~500€ in BTC]
- kbar13 9y ago
  why do you feel the need to disclose that
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    Because holding a non-laughable amount of any asset can (and does) influence my opinion, both on the present and the future. To disclose potential influences is (or at least should be) standard practice.
- akerro 9y ago
  > I'm not sure BTC is a viable way to store value... BTC (and any deflationary CC) is still a better long term value holder than EUR or USD
  - Retric 9y ago
    If and only if it remains deflationary, someone could completely destroy Bitcoin by maintaining a 51% attack. I doubt China is going to go from nan to an attack, but confiscate all miners in China and they could easily do so. So, if Bitcoin could easily be worth nothing in 10 years, it's a poor Store of value.
    - akerro 9y ago
      >destroy Bitcoin by maintaining a 51% attack The 51% is a better chance attack, you can still try to perform it with 10% and succeed and you can try with 60% and fail. >Bitcoin could easily be worth nothing in 10 years, it's a poor Store of value. Gold is more and more used in electronics, less and less in jewellery, if we move to graphene-based computers gold will not have much place there and its value in USD will probably drop. One nuke on Hawaii or California will cause huge drop in value of USD compared to other currencies.
vinchuco 9y ago
> if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. no, but a bitcoin-is-the-future-of-currency conference, might surprise me
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
spookthesunset 9y ago
> However, given its tremendous market capitalization, it may yet turn out to be a viable way to store value. The circular logic of bitcoin shysters never ceases to amaze. I have created a new coin called "sand coin". Each coin is a grain of sand from my backyard Yesterday my friend bought one grain of sand from me for $1. Therefore, given the fact that there is billions of sand grains in my backyard, their market cap is giant. Given its tremendous market cap, Sandcoin is a great store of value.
- notadoc 9y ago
  Wow a sand-grain backed crypto? Sand on blockchain? Sandcoin is easily worth $100,000 per coin! It's the future of sand!
- johndevor 9y ago
  You're using derogatory terms to make an argument which is not an argument. Secondly, you could make the same argument about gold.
  - skellera 9y ago
    This always gets brought up but gold is used for much more. It’s in electronics, people value it as jewelry, etc. I can go to a coin shop today and exchange my gold for a much smaller fee than Bitcoin. Gold has historically shown its ability to store value. If the fees come back down, all of the Bitcoin people will start saying they never called it a store of value. People just have to justify why they’re making irrational decisions.
    - aianus 9y ago
      Which coin shop is this with $0.01 spread and 0/0.20% maker/taker fees? I would like to go there.
    - johndevor 9y ago
      The vast majority of gold's value is simply a store of value, not electronics or jewelry.
sandworm101 9y ago
When did BC become a place to store value? It was meant to facilitate unblockable transactions. It was to replace visa, not gold.
- brokensegue 9y ago
  they gave up on that when they realized that it could never scale even close to visa's transaction volume.
akhatri_aus 9y ago
> I suppose one wouldn't be surprised if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. What a false equivalence. That is specifically why processors like Bitpay exist, because Bitcoin _is_ meant for these type of transactions. You can't really shove gold down the computer screen.
EpicEng 9y ago
>I dunno, I suppose one wouldn't be surprised if a gold conference didn't accept gold payments. except no one is using gold as a currency, and all of the crypto pushers are touting it as the currency of the future, yet they an't even use it at their own conference. No one is pushing gold as a currency, so I don't understand the analogy. These things are just not usable as currency yet, not even close. I have a hard time believing they ever will be even if they get past the technical issues.
Chyzwar 9y ago
Store value is real estate, equity, government bonds not overhyped cryptocurrency that can disappear tomorrow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value
Chyzwar 9y ago
Value store can be real estate, equity, government bonds not overhyped cryptocurrency that can disappear tomorrow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value
- adamnemecek 9y ago
  It can but most likely won’t.
  - Chyzwar 9y ago
    Why do you think that bitcoins cant disappear tomorrow? Does it have government as a guarantee of value? (currency, bonds)? Does it have intrinsic underlying value (commodity, real estate)? Does it have ownership rights (equity)? If tomorrow crypto market crash, you will not be able to sell your bitcoins for 1$.
    - adamnemecek 9y ago
      His discussion has been had a billion times. The fact that you are asking the same questions means that you weren’t convinced by the answers, so the odds of my answers actually convincing you are very slim.
Bitcoin_McPonzi 9y ago
I've been to gold conferences in Australia and I paid my admission with a gold coin.
- oliyoung 9y ago
  cough those are 90% copper, didn't have any gold in them
- IncRnd 9y ago
  Are you sure it was a gold coin and not a golden coin?

110011 9y ago

Hahahahaha this is hilarious, where are all the bitcoin fanatics now hmmm? Does this confirm its singular status as a vehicle of enormous speculation or do we have to wait till people finally agree it is worth precisely zero US dollars...

110011 9y ago
I see people downvoting my comment, but honestly if you think this is anything but hilarious then you may be too deep in this speculative bubble!
- AlexAltea 9y ago
  Essentially because every HN post concerning cryptocurrencies has become a joke, and long threads of cryptofanatics and cryptosceptics throwing shit at each other. No one is willing to just have rational conversation on the points they agree/disagree with, but instead write attacks like: "Hahahahaha this is hilarious, where are all the bitcoin {fanatics,sceptics} now" that don't contribute to the discussion at all. You will always get downvoted by one of the sides. Personally, I would downvote you if I could for adding yet another stick to the bonfire. To be honest, this looks like a quarrel between baboons that have invested too much, and baboons that have shorted too much. I've never ever seen HN in such a state and hope to not see it.
- mancerayder 9y ago
  People are going to downvote comments, whether it's pro or con BTC, where the level of conversation feels like Reddit or just generally low-effort me-too type stuff. "hahaha" type sarcasm is why many of us come here instead. Apologies for dissing Reddit, but that's what that reminds me of first. Like the other commenter said, it's about how rational the comments are.

kingo55 9y ago

This news was confirmed fake. The conference does accept Bitcoin.

citricsquid 9y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20180111023048/https://btcmiami.com/tickets/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180111023048/https://btcmiami.... Due to network congestion and manual processing, we have closed ticket payments using Cryptocurrencies — Hopefully, next year there will be more unity in the community about scaling and global adoption becomes reality. We have, and always will, accept cryptocurrencies for our conferences, up to fourteen days before the event. However, due to the manual inputting of data in our ticketing platforms when paid in cryptocurrencies, we decided to shut down bitcoin payments for last minute sales due to print deadlines.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  I like how they give two what looks like entirely separate excuses.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
pavel_lishin 9y ago
> This news was confirmed fake. [citation needed]
mark_edward 9y ago
Above comment confirmed as fake

Kinnard 9y ago

Bitcoin is made of software . . . do people not know that software can get better and better over time?? I used a js map function yesterday, worked like a charm!!!