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Well, sure, but it didn't go nowhere because a clear procedure for reporting didn't exist, but because the law was not enforced and maybe because some pieces ne

Well, sure, but it didn't go nowhere because a clear procedure for reporting didn't exist, but because the law was not enforced and maybe because some pieces necessary for successful enforcement were missing (which the NetzDG adds, in addition to all the crap that privatizes the law enforcement). Really, I don't see many people in "net freedom circles" who object to forcing Facebook to delete illegal posts. The objection is rather to (a) deleting stuff instead of prosecuting the perpetrators, (b) hiding (censoring) stuff that's still there, and (c) making parties other than the judicial system responsible for limiting speech. But, yeah, sure, I don't care about Facebook or Twitter either.

Tomte 9y ago
The thing missing for enforcement was Facebook respecting our laws. They simply said „none of our officers is living in Germany, so fuck off“. Now we‘ve added a way to make them hurt. Financially. And I see virtually everyone in the net freedom circles objecting to FB deleting illegal posts. Because our laws are unjust, you see. Only American laws count. We really need to teach Facebook, Twitter, Uber, AirBNB and all those companies some manners and respect for our society.
- hardwires 9y ago
  >> We really need to teach Facebook, Twitter, Uber, AirBNB and all those companies some manners and respect for our society. As a German, let me tell you that this sounds absolutely ridiculous, arrogant and hubristic. You want your German Extrawurst. We're not "one society", not everyone agrees with the tons of laws and regulations we have (mostly on account of special pleading and lobbyism). German users came to Facebook and Twitter first, not the other way around. These are not German companies, they don't need to operate out of Germany, so why should they have to follow our every law? If anything, you'd be "teaching" them not to bother with Germany, because it's too much of a pain in the ass.
  - Tomte 9y ago
    I would have no problem with them deciding it‘s not worth the trouble and banning German users. I have a problem with how they want to make money here, but illegally. And yes, I want rules to be decided democratically. Not by „what does hardwires think about it?“.
    - hardwires 9y ago
      >> I would have no problem with them deciding it‘s not worth the trouble and banning German users. Why should they ban them? They should allow access from all countries. Would you argue that Twitter and Facebook should help enforce all the customs of countries like Iran or North Korea by banning its users? Just get out of the way! >> I have a problem with how they want to make money here, but illegally. They aren't making money illegally here. They never have. If they did, law enforcement could stop them and there wouldn't have been a need for this new law. They can still make money off a German audience without any business presence in Germany. Legally, from the US. Advertisers don't all discriminate. There's nothing you (or the German government) can do about that, except maybe for censoring the "German version" of the internet. If that's what you want, to the detriment of all German internet users, then please say so. >> And yes, I want rules to be decided democratically. Not by „what does hardwires think about it?“. These rules are not decided democratically in Germany, so I don't understand what that has to do with anything.
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
        > If they did, law enforcement could stop them and there wouldn't have been a need for this new law. So? Now, there is a law, and so what was legal before is not anymore. That is the point of creating new laws. > They can still make money off a German audience without any business presence in Germany. Legally, from the US. Where you are acting from does not have any influence on legality. If Germany has a law that makes what someone does in the US illegal, then it's illegal. Acting from the US only limits enforcability. If Facebook has no presence or business in Germany, Germany cannot do anything to enforce that law against Facebook. But it seems like Facebook is of the opinion that they have enough Business in Germany that it's worth for them to comply with the laws to be able to keep that business. > Advertisers don't all discriminate. Well, but most advertisers that want to advertise to a German audience are from Germany. If you want to be paid by advertisers from Germany, you better follow German laws, or Germany will seize the funds your German advertisers are paying you to pay fines or other debts that you owe in Germany.
- RaleyField 9y ago
  > Because our laws are unjust, you see. Maybe you should entertain the idea that they are? It wouldn't be the first time. And what if every country had the same long arm attitude of pushing their opinions on foreign companies?
  - RaleyField 9y ago
    To people downvoting - you are all a bunch of morons. And e.g. this is an insult that is sanctionable under section 185 of german criminal code as it is mentioned in the new NetzDG act which would make ycombinator liable to 5m€ fine should they fail to remove it under certain circumstances. This is why the law is unjust. Now even though I don't reside in or don't use services from companies residing in Germany I'm strongly encouraged to refrain from pointing out morons amongst you because state actors are strong-arming companies they shouldn't have jurisdiction over.

Tomte 9y ago

The thing missing for enforcement was Facebook respecting our laws. They simply said „none of our officers is living in Germany, so fuck off“. Now we‘ve added a way to make them hurt. Financially. And I see virtually everyone in the net freedom circles objecting to FB deleting illegal posts. Because our laws are unjust, you see. Only American laws count. We really need to teach Facebook, Twitter, Uber, AirBNB and all those companies some manners and respect for our society.

hardwires 9y ago
>> We really need to teach Facebook, Twitter, Uber, AirBNB and all those companies some manners and respect for our society. As a German, let me tell you that this sounds absolutely ridiculous, arrogant and hubristic. You want your German Extrawurst. We're not "one society", not everyone agrees with the tons of laws and regulations we have (mostly on account of special pleading and lobbyism). German users came to Facebook and Twitter first, not the other way around. These are not German companies, they don't need to operate out of Germany, so why should they have to follow our every law? If anything, you'd be "teaching" them not to bother with Germany, because it's too much of a pain in the ass.
- Tomte 9y ago
  I would have no problem with them deciding it‘s not worth the trouble and banning German users. I have a problem with how they want to make money here, but illegally. And yes, I want rules to be decided democratically. Not by „what does hardwires think about it?“.
  - hardwires 9y ago
    >> I would have no problem with them deciding it‘s not worth the trouble and banning German users. Why should they ban them? They should allow access from all countries. Would you argue that Twitter and Facebook should help enforce all the customs of countries like Iran or North Korea by banning its users? Just get out of the way! >> I have a problem with how they want to make money here, but illegally. They aren't making money illegally here. They never have. If they did, law enforcement could stop them and there wouldn't have been a need for this new law. They can still make money off a German audience without any business presence in Germany. Legally, from the US. Advertisers don't all discriminate. There's nothing you (or the German government) can do about that, except maybe for censoring the "German version" of the internet. If that's what you want, to the detriment of all German internet users, then please say so. >> And yes, I want rules to be decided democratically. Not by „what does hardwires think about it?“. These rules are not decided democratically in Germany, so I don't understand what that has to do with anything.
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
      > If they did, law enforcement could stop them and there wouldn't have been a need for this new law. So? Now, there is a law, and so what was legal before is not anymore. That is the point of creating new laws. > They can still make money off a German audience without any business presence in Germany. Legally, from the US. Where you are acting from does not have any influence on legality. If Germany has a law that makes what someone does in the US illegal, then it's illegal. Acting from the US only limits enforcability. If Facebook has no presence or business in Germany, Germany cannot do anything to enforce that law against Facebook. But it seems like Facebook is of the opinion that they have enough Business in Germany that it's worth for them to comply with the laws to be able to keep that business. > Advertisers don't all discriminate. Well, but most advertisers that want to advertise to a German audience are from Germany. If you want to be paid by advertisers from Germany, you better follow German laws, or Germany will seize the funds your German advertisers are paying you to pay fines or other debts that you owe in Germany.
RaleyField 9y ago
> Because our laws are unjust, you see. Maybe you should entertain the idea that they are? It wouldn't be the first time. And what if every country had the same long arm attitude of pushing their opinions on foreign companies?
- RaleyField 9y ago
  To people downvoting - you are all a bunch of morons. And e.g. this is an insult that is sanctionable under section 185 of german criminal code as it is mentioned in the new NetzDG act which would make ycombinator liable to 5m€ fine should they fail to remove it under certain circumstances. This is why the law is unjust. Now even though I don't reside in or don't use services from companies residing in Germany I'm strongly encouraged to refrain from pointing out morons amongst you because state actors are strong-arming companies they shouldn't have jurisdiction over.