5 ms·

This is pretty cool. A PC with an 80186 CPU is a little weird, though; I don't think many of those actually existed. It seems like virtually everybody went stra

This is pretty cool. A PC with an 80186 CPU is a little weird, though; I don't think many of those actually existed. It seems like virtually everybody went straight from 8086 to 80286

pjmlp 9y ago
Yeah, I don't recall having seen 80186 on sale.
- jamieiles 9y ago
  RM had a 186 based system, but the reason for 186 is that it's a relatively small delta over the 8086 vs 286!
jonsen 9y ago
I'm holding one in my hand right now; the HP200. There were others: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80186#In_personal_computers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80186#In_personal_comp...
- userbinator 9y ago
  From your link: The 80186 would have been a natural successor to the 8086 in personal computers. However, because its integrated hardware was incompatible with the hardware used in the original IBM PC, the 80286 was used as the successor instead in the IBM PC/AT. In other words, the few "PCs" which did use a 186 weren't fully PC-compatible.
  - jonsen 9y ago
    It was possible: "Being IBM PC/XT compatible and running MS-DOS 5.0 from ROM, the HP 200LX can run virtually any program that would run on a full-size PC compatible computer as long as the code is written for the Intel 8086, 8088 or 80186 CPU and can run using CGA graphics. It can also run programs written for the 80286 CPU, provided they do not require the use of protected mode.": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX
  - dfox 9y ago
    It is not that you cannot build 186-based PC-compatible computer, but on the other hand using 186 for PC is somewhat pointless because you cannot use most of things that 186 adds to 86/88 in order to remain PC compatible.
pm215 9y ago
The RM Nimbus was 186-based (https://www.thenimbus.co.uk/range-of-nimbus-computers/PC-186 https://www.thenimbus.co.uk/range-of-nimbus-computers/PC-186) -- UK people might remember it as it was pretty popular in schools in the late 80s/early 90s. It wasn't fully PC compatible though.
- bencollier49 9y ago
  Bloody horrible computers, those.
  - TickleSteve 9y ago
    Absolutely... the slight incompatibilities meant they had to have RM specific versions of software IIRC.
  - amelius 9y ago
    They didn't have issues with Meltdown or Spectre though.
- petercooper 9y ago
  Prior to their purchase, I recall my dad spending some time trying to persuade my headmistress that the RM Nimbus was a bad choice and we should have "real PCs" in school instead. Unfortunately it turned out the powers that be had a contract with RM and the choice of machine was basically forced upon schools. With that said, beyond the odd software incompatibilities, I found it an interesting system. Its BASIC was pretty good and it had a music chip integrated at a time when almost no machines had sound cards. Anyone else remember "TRAINS"? :-D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvwoPUqDCa4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvwoPUqDCa4
  - exikyut 9y ago
    Wow, that's a really cool game. A very imaginative use of limited video bandwidth. Very interesting BIOSes, too.
- gaius 9y ago
RandomOpinion 9y ago
There wasn't any real reason to use the 80186 in a PC; it was meant for embedded devices. The only major feature that it had was some additional hardware for timers and DMA built in. Everything else was (more or less) architecturally the same as the 8086. Probably the last series of 80186 PCs ever made were HP's 100LX / 200LX, a palmtop DOS based PDA that was released in the mid-'90s IIRC. It was an amazing little gadget for its time.
- cestith 9y ago
  Those were compatible but actually used the NEC V20 processor. I have a 95LX, 100LX, a couple 200LX and I'm in the market for a 4MB 200LX and maybe the 1000CX (which lacks the built-in spreadsheet).
  - girvo 9y ago
    My other major hardware hobby project is a custom clone of a 100LX, based on a PIC32 running RetroBSD! Wire-wrapping tiny membrane keys is damned painful however so it’s been on the back burner for a while
  - cestith 9y ago
    Actually, I'm partly mistaken. The 95LX had the V20. The 100LX, 200LX, and 1000CX it seems had an Intel 80c186 codenamed "Hornet" which competed with the V20.
pkaye 9y ago
The 80186 was an 8086 integrated with some of the peripheral chips mainly used in embedded devices. You can still get some SBCs with 8018 compatible chips.
- dfox 9y ago
  For some time 80186 was quite common in SCSI devices. I've seen large amounts of 5.25" (and larger) SCSI harddrives with 80186 and IIRC some RS/6000 workstations had 80186 in their SCSI controller (on MCA card). It is one of the saner Intel's attempts at x86-compatible embedded CPU with integrated peripherals.
bikenaga 9y ago
The Tandy 2000 used an 80186; I still have mine in the attic. It ran MSDOS 2.11, but it was not BIOS-compatible with the IBM PC (which explains why it was a market failure, even though it was technically superior in many ways). For example, you could mod it to have 896KB of base RAM (compared to the usual 640KB) - I had this done to mine. You could do this because video memory was mapped to a different location than with IBM PC's (but consequently, programs that wrote directly to video memory for speed wouldn't run unaltered on the 2000). I got tired of dealing with the incompatibilities and got a 286 from CompuAdd a couple of years later.
anyfoo 9y ago
I cut my teeth on a "Siemens PC-D", a German variation on the IBM PC. Not quite compatible but almost. It had an 80186, 1MB of RAM (extreme at the time) and many other niceties that a normal IBM PC didn't have. I think it even had an external MMU, at least it could run SINIX. Though there were UNIX clones like PC/IX and early XENIX versions that ran without MMU on stock IBM XTs, without protection obviously, so I'm not certain what the story with SINIX on the PC-D was.
- Zenst 9y ago
  Was that the one that came with a remote control to turn it on and off?
  - linker3000 9y ago
    The Apricot Qi came with a remote for booting. http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=995 http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=995
    - Zenst 9y ago
      Certainly was an Apricot, and the does look like it and may well be it, but this was 1984/5, which predates the 300 release. That said, was working for government IT department in one of the regional electricity supply companies and do recall the kit was in for evaluation and we did get pre-release kit in to look at. Though we are talking 8086 CPU time-rame here. But without a doubt though it was an apricot, thank you for that. I did have a quick look or older models it may of been, nothing could pindown for sure. Though pre-release eval kit back then was much more fun and creative than today's verbatim to release.
  - anyfoo 9y ago
    I don't think so... I mean, could be, but I somehow doubt it. This was around the middle of the 80s, by the way.
stuaxo 9y ago
At school they have some 186 RM Nimbus PCs. You could use this "xmode" command to switch between PC compatible and whatever they were.
mmphosis 9y ago
The ICON was a computer built specifically for use in schools, to fill a standard created by the Ontario Ministry of Education. It was based on the Intel 80186 CPU and ran an early version of QNX, a Unix-like operating system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisys_ICON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisys_ICON
bitwize 9y ago
The Tandy 2000 was one. It was a PC-ish, DOS-running machine that was more powerful than anything put out by IBM at the time, but not PC compatible. The 186 had additional on-chip hardware like timers, etc. that the 8086 (and 286 and subsequent chips) did not, and some of these were mapped to I/O address space that corresponded to different PC hardware, so building a fully PC compatible machine with a 186 was near impossible. Forgoing PC compatibility was not without its advantages. The Tandy 2000 could have up to 768k of RAM -- and used all of it, the 640k limit being nonexistent. This made a huge difference in applications such as Lotus 1-2-3. The Tandy 2000 also featured a 640x400 color display option -- extremely high resolution for the time -- at an affordable price, making it attractive as a graphical workstation. Tandy 2000s were used in the design of Stars and Stripes 87, an America's Cup winning yacht, and were also used to prototype color display in Windows 1.0. So it was an important machine, despite fading into obscurity due to its lack of PC compatibility. Sorry, I just frickin' love this machine and wish it were more remembered.
- bikenaga 9y ago
  Actually, you could go up to 896KB - it was not officially supported by Tandy, but there was a guy in Washington who had a company called Envision Designs that did this. https://archive.org/stream/PortableComputingMagazineAug1985/pcm_aug_1985_v3n2_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/PortableComputingMagazineAug1985/... I think I read about him first in Jerry Pournelle's coolumn in BYTE. So he modded my 2000 up to 896KB, and also added a disk controller and hard drive. Tandy eventually started selling cards with an 8087, which definitely helped with floating point stuff. It was a wonderful machine. I first ran Turbo Pascal on it, did my first color Mandelbrot set. I had the color monitor and the inkjet printer. What is incredible is that for what I spent in 1984 dollars on all that stuff, adjusted for inflation, I could probably now get dual Xeons with 20 cores! It was a very sad day when I realized that it was getting too hard to deal with the incompatibility with the IBM-PC standard. The video RAM (and 640 x 400 8-color graphics), the nonstandard floppy disks, the add-on cards (which could be installed without opening the case), ... Technical superiority isn't always conclusive. The original BYTE review, for anyone who's interested: http://tech-insider.org/personal-computers/research/acrobat/8412-b.pdf http://tech-insider.org/personal-computers/research/acrobat/...
dragonwriter 9y ago
> A PC with an 80186 CPU is a little weird, though; I don't think many of those actually existed. It seems like virtually everybody went straight from 8086 to 80286 In the late 1980s, the network server on my high school computer classroom’s LAN was a ’186; the actual PCs were either 8086 or 8088 machines.

This is pretty cool. A PC with an 80186 CPU is a little weird, though; I don't think many of those actually existed. It seems like virtually everybody went straight from 8086 to 80286

pjmlp 9y ago

Yeah, I don't recall having seen 80186 on sale.

jamieiles 9y ago
RM had a 186 based system, but the reason for 186 is that it's a relatively small delta over the 8086 vs 286!

jonsen 9y ago

I'm holding one in my hand right now; the HP200. There were others: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80186#In_personal_computers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80186#In_personal_comp...

userbinator 9y ago
From your link: The 80186 would have been a natural successor to the 8086 in personal computers. However, because its integrated hardware was incompatible with the hardware used in the original IBM PC, the 80286 was used as the successor instead in the IBM PC/AT. In other words, the few "PCs" which did use a 186 weren't fully PC-compatible.
- jonsen 9y ago
  It was possible: "Being IBM PC/XT compatible and running MS-DOS 5.0 from ROM, the HP 200LX can run virtually any program that would run on a full-size PC compatible computer as long as the code is written for the Intel 8086, 8088 or 80186 CPU and can run using CGA graphics. It can also run programs written for the 80286 CPU, provided they do not require the use of protected mode.": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX
- dfox 9y ago
  It is not that you cannot build 186-based PC-compatible computer, but on the other hand using 186 for PC is somewhat pointless because you cannot use most of things that 186 adds to 86/88 in order to remain PC compatible.

pm215 9y ago

The RM Nimbus was 186-based (https://www.thenimbus.co.uk/range-of-nimbus-computers/PC-186 https://www.thenimbus.co.uk/range-of-nimbus-computers/PC-186) -- UK people might remember it as it was pretty popular in schools in the late 80s/early 90s. It wasn't fully PC compatible though.

bencollier49 9y ago
Bloody horrible computers, those.
- TickleSteve 9y ago
  Absolutely... the slight incompatibilities meant they had to have RM specific versions of software IIRC.
- amelius 9y ago
  They didn't have issues with Meltdown or Spectre though.
petercooper 9y ago
Prior to their purchase, I recall my dad spending some time trying to persuade my headmistress that the RM Nimbus was a bad choice and we should have "real PCs" in school instead. Unfortunately it turned out the powers that be had a contract with RM and the choice of machine was basically forced upon schools. With that said, beyond the odd software incompatibilities, I found it an interesting system. Its BASIC was pretty good and it had a music chip integrated at a time when almost no machines had sound cards. Anyone else remember "TRAINS"? :-D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvwoPUqDCa4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvwoPUqDCa4
- exikyut 9y ago
  Wow, that's a really cool game. A very imaginative use of limited video bandwidth. Very interesting BIOSes, too.
gaius 9y ago

RandomOpinion 9y ago

There wasn't any real reason to use the 80186 in a PC; it was meant for embedded devices. The only major feature that it had was some additional hardware for timers and DMA built in. Everything else was (more or less) architecturally the same as the 8086. Probably the last series of 80186 PCs ever made were HP's 100LX / 200LX, a palmtop DOS based PDA that was released in the mid-'90s IIRC. It was an amazing little gadget for its time.

cestith 9y ago
Those were compatible but actually used the NEC V20 processor. I have a 95LX, 100LX, a couple 200LX and I'm in the market for a 4MB 200LX and maybe the 1000CX (which lacks the built-in spreadsheet).
- girvo 9y ago
  My other major hardware hobby project is a custom clone of a 100LX, based on a PIC32 running RetroBSD! Wire-wrapping tiny membrane keys is damned painful however so it’s been on the back burner for a while
- cestith 9y ago
  Actually, I'm partly mistaken. The 95LX had the V20. The 100LX, 200LX, and 1000CX it seems had an Intel 80c186 codenamed "Hornet" which competed with the V20.

pkaye 9y ago

The 80186 was an 8086 integrated with some of the peripheral chips mainly used in embedded devices. You can still get some SBCs with 8018 compatible chips.

dfox 9y ago
For some time 80186 was quite common in SCSI devices. I've seen large amounts of 5.25" (and larger) SCSI harddrives with 80186 and IIRC some RS/6000 workstations had 80186 in their SCSI controller (on MCA card). It is one of the saner Intel's attempts at x86-compatible embedded CPU with integrated peripherals.

bikenaga 9y ago

The Tandy 2000 used an 80186; I still have mine in the attic. It ran MSDOS 2.11, but it was not BIOS-compatible with the IBM PC (which explains why it was a market failure, even though it was technically superior in many ways). For example, you could mod it to have 896KB of base RAM (compared to the usual 640KB) - I had this done to mine. You could do this because video memory was mapped to a different location than with IBM PC's (but consequently, programs that wrote directly to video memory for speed wouldn't run unaltered on the 2000). I got tired of dealing with the incompatibilities and got a 286 from CompuAdd a couple of years later.

anyfoo 9y ago

I cut my teeth on a "Siemens PC-D", a German variation on the IBM PC. Not quite compatible but almost. It had an 80186, 1MB of RAM (extreme at the time) and many other niceties that a normal IBM PC didn't have. I think it even had an external MMU, at least it could run SINIX. Though there were UNIX clones like PC/IX and early XENIX versions that ran without MMU on stock IBM XTs, without protection obviously, so I'm not certain what the story with SINIX on the PC-D was.

Zenst 9y ago
Was that the one that came with a remote control to turn it on and off?
- linker3000 9y ago
  The Apricot Qi came with a remote for booting. http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=995 http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=995
  - Zenst 9y ago
    Certainly was an Apricot, and the does look like it and may well be it, but this was 1984/5, which predates the 300 release. That said, was working for government IT department in one of the regional electricity supply companies and do recall the kit was in for evaluation and we did get pre-release kit in to look at. Though we are talking 8086 CPU time-rame here. But without a doubt though it was an apricot, thank you for that. I did have a quick look or older models it may of been, nothing could pindown for sure. Though pre-release eval kit back then was much more fun and creative than today's verbatim to release.
- anyfoo 9y ago
  I don't think so... I mean, could be, but I somehow doubt it. This was around the middle of the 80s, by the way.

stuaxo 9y ago

At school they have some 186 RM Nimbus PCs. You could use this "xmode" command to switch between PC compatible and whatever they were.

mmphosis 9y ago

The ICON was a computer built specifically for use in schools, to fill a standard created by the Ontario Ministry of Education. It was based on the Intel 80186 CPU and ran an early version of QNX, a Unix-like operating system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisys_ICON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisys_ICON

bitwize 9y ago

The Tandy 2000 was one. It was a PC-ish, DOS-running machine that was more powerful than anything put out by IBM at the time, but not PC compatible. The 186 had additional on-chip hardware like timers, etc. that the 8086 (and 286 and subsequent chips) did not, and some of these were mapped to I/O address space that corresponded to different PC hardware, so building a fully PC compatible machine with a 186 was near impossible. Forgoing PC compatibility was not without its advantages. The Tandy 2000 could have up to 768k of RAM -- and used all of it, the 640k limit being nonexistent. This made a huge difference in applications such as Lotus 1-2-3. The Tandy 2000 also featured a 640x400 color display option -- extremely high resolution for the time -- at an affordable price, making it attractive as a graphical workstation. Tandy 2000s were used in the design of Stars and Stripes 87, an America's Cup winning yacht, and were also used to prototype color display in Windows 1.0. So it was an important machine, despite fading into obscurity due to its lack of PC compatibility. Sorry, I just frickin' love this machine and wish it were more remembered.

bikenaga 9y ago
Actually, you could go up to 896KB - it was not officially supported by Tandy, but there was a guy in Washington who had a company called Envision Designs that did this. https://archive.org/stream/PortableComputingMagazineAug1985/pcm_aug_1985_v3n2_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/PortableComputingMagazineAug1985/... I think I read about him first in Jerry Pournelle's coolumn in BYTE. So he modded my 2000 up to 896KB, and also added a disk controller and hard drive. Tandy eventually started selling cards with an 8087, which definitely helped with floating point stuff. It was a wonderful machine. I first ran Turbo Pascal on it, did my first color Mandelbrot set. I had the color monitor and the inkjet printer. What is incredible is that for what I spent in 1984 dollars on all that stuff, adjusted for inflation, I could probably now get dual Xeons with 20 cores! It was a very sad day when I realized that it was getting too hard to deal with the incompatibility with the IBM-PC standard. The video RAM (and 640 x 400 8-color graphics), the nonstandard floppy disks, the add-on cards (which could be installed without opening the case), ... Technical superiority isn't always conclusive. The original BYTE review, for anyone who's interested: http://tech-insider.org/personal-computers/research/acrobat/8412-b.pdf http://tech-insider.org/personal-computers/research/acrobat/...

dragonwriter 9y ago

> A PC with an 80186 CPU is a little weird, though; I don't think many of those actually existed. It seems like virtually everybody went straight from 8086 to 80286 In the late 1980s, the network server on my high school computer classroom’s LAN was a ’186; the actual PCs were either 8086 or 8088 machines.