4 ms·

Both are instantaneous on 59. Are you staying on 52 for a reason? Is that a ESR version and you require some addons that cannot be ported?

MBCook 9y ago
I don’t know if it applies to them, but I’ve got 52 ESR installed on my computer work because I need access to the Java plug-in.
ars 9y ago
> and you require some addons that cannot be ported Yup, Tab Groups. Plus I need the Unity 3D extension, and ALSA sound (which they also disabled). And Flash (although I know that's still supported for now, I'm never not going to need it - even years from now). I have no idea how I'll ever get off that version. Really not pleased with Mozilla. I can't even go to 57. My current plan is to keep 52 forever, and once it's not supported use the latest version for normal browsing, and launch 52 when I need it. Maybe in some kind of sandbox, since I'm sure there will be unpatched vulnerabilities. I'll have to do something about all my Tab Groups though - I have around 20 or 30 of them, really not looking forward to migrating them, but I'll have no choice. And I'll have to install PulseAudio. I've been using Firefox since it was a beta project (even have bugzilla reports from 1999) and I've never been as disappointed with them. Edit: I know we're not supposed to ask, but I just have to, why did two people downvote this? What could possibly be there to downvote? Am I not allowed to have an opinion on Mozilla or something?
- darklajid 9y ago
  Thanks for that. There are various solutions to tab groups out there, I thought? Just recently my Nightly seemed to have something like that natively (can't find it again now, but it allowed me to categorize tabs into groups)? Cannot comment on Unity. I wasn't aware that Firefox requires Pulseaudio, but I've never understood the resistance against that project either - let's consider it a preference. But why are you personally disappointed with Mozilla? Do you believe that the browser got worse for the general case or is this the feeling of being left out at the side of the road because you have special & specific requirements and preferences that aren't completely common? (I didn't downvote you and I always had and have personal issues with Firefox myself - but I believe that it's becoming a more and more improved browser for ~everyone~ insofar as that's possible)
  - ars 9y ago
    > There are various solutions to tab groups out there, I thought? Not when I last checked. The only solution is either a separate browser window for each group of tabs, or put them in bookmarks. > I wasn't aware that Firefox requires Pulseaudio, but I've never understood the resistance against that project either I can deal with PluseAudio. It's just annoying since I've never set it up, and I don't need it - except for Firefox. > But why are you personally disappointed with Mozilla? Because they have caught the bug that to make things better you have to remove things. It's one thing to make an alternative - like when they ruined the UI, but created "Classic theme restorer", it's another to remove features that people actually use. Right now, Unity and Flash are better than any kind of native web technology. They just are. But Firefox is removing them anyway because of "purity" reasons. > Do you believe that the browser got worse for the general case Yes. Not everyone is affected equally of course, but removing things like Unity isn't a net win. Nor is removing Flash. I know, I know, not pure. I don't care. Removing flash removes so much stuff from the internet. > or is this the feeling of being left out at the side of the road because you have special & specific requirements and preferences that aren't completely common? No, I can't expect that. Honestly I can (and will) deal with Tab Groups and PulseAudio. PluseAudio especially I can understand. And I guess few people used Tab Groups. But Unity and Flash, that's just unpleasant. > but I believe that it's becoming a more and more improved browser for ~everyone~ insofar as that's possible It has in some ways. But they also messed up really bad. For example they switched to WebExtensions before creating a replacement API that Tab Groups would need! Read this if you haven't already: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lXF50-hgOnsJ:fasezero.com/lastnotice.html http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lXF50-h... (he gave up his DNS, that's how badly Mozilla burned him). Why do that? They removed NAPI without leaving any possible alternative. Make the browser better by improving it. Stop making it better by not supporting things. Look at Linux "Never Break Userspace". Linux has things that are hard to support, but they deal, because it's the right thing to do.
    - darklajid 9y ago
      Reading some more into tab groups I guess I understand what you're missing (I'm using Tree Style Tabs, which Work For Me™). The biggest/last blocker seems to be [1]. Pulseaudio? I think that shouldn't be a big issue imo, but you seem to agree here. "Ruined the UI" is a tough one. For me the UI is completely fine and what isn't can be fixed in userChrome.css with little investment. What's broken or ruined? Still unclear about Unity, are you talking about this [2]? It seems to say that this is unsupported/deprecated by the company itself [3]? Hopefully you'll be able to migrate to a current version in the future. The 'start 52 in a sandbox' scenario doesn't sound fun at all. 1: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515 2: https://unity3d.com/webplayer https://unity3d.com/webplayer 3: The Unity Webplayer is no longer supported. We provide this download link to the last build for convenience, but be aware that the Unity Webplayer has been deprecated and will not get any further update. If you want to deliver Unity made content via web browser we recommend you use WebGL.
- steanne 9y ago
  i recommend waterfox.
- arnvidr 9y ago
  > ALSA sound (which they also disabled) Not sure what happened here, but on gentoo I still have sound in firefox 57 without having installed either pulseaudio or the apulse shim. Probably some patching by the gentoo devs, but I was ready to install at least the shim, and maybe even pulse itself to get sound, but so far it has not been necessary.

MBCook 9y ago

I don’t know if it applies to them, but I’ve got 52 ESR installed on my computer work because I need access to the Java plug-in.

ars 9y ago

> and you require some addons that cannot be ported Yup, Tab Groups. Plus I need the Unity 3D extension, and ALSA sound (which they also disabled). And Flash (although I know that's still supported for now, I'm never not going to need it - even years from now). I have no idea how I'll ever get off that version. Really not pleased with Mozilla. I can't even go to 57. My current plan is to keep 52 forever, and once it's not supported use the latest version for normal browsing, and launch 52 when I need it. Maybe in some kind of sandbox, since I'm sure there will be unpatched vulnerabilities. I'll have to do something about all my Tab Groups though - I have around 20 or 30 of them, really not looking forward to migrating them, but I'll have no choice. And I'll have to install PulseAudio. I've been using Firefox since it was a beta project (even have bugzilla reports from 1999) and I've never been as disappointed with them. Edit: I know we're not supposed to ask, but I just have to, why did two people downvote this? What could possibly be there to downvote? Am I not allowed to have an opinion on Mozilla or something?

darklajid 9y ago
Thanks for that. There are various solutions to tab groups out there, I thought? Just recently my Nightly seemed to have something like that natively (can't find it again now, but it allowed me to categorize tabs into groups)? Cannot comment on Unity. I wasn't aware that Firefox requires Pulseaudio, but I've never understood the resistance against that project either - let's consider it a preference. But why are you personally disappointed with Mozilla? Do you believe that the browser got worse for the general case or is this the feeling of being left out at the side of the road because you have special & specific requirements and preferences that aren't completely common? (I didn't downvote you and I always had and have personal issues with Firefox myself - but I believe that it's becoming a more and more improved browser for ~everyone~ insofar as that's possible)
- ars 9y ago
  > There are various solutions to tab groups out there, I thought? Not when I last checked. The only solution is either a separate browser window for each group of tabs, or put them in bookmarks. > I wasn't aware that Firefox requires Pulseaudio, but I've never understood the resistance against that project either I can deal with PluseAudio. It's just annoying since I've never set it up, and I don't need it - except for Firefox. > But why are you personally disappointed with Mozilla? Because they have caught the bug that to make things better you have to remove things. It's one thing to make an alternative - like when they ruined the UI, but created "Classic theme restorer", it's another to remove features that people actually use. Right now, Unity and Flash are better than any kind of native web technology. They just are. But Firefox is removing them anyway because of "purity" reasons. > Do you believe that the browser got worse for the general case Yes. Not everyone is affected equally of course, but removing things like Unity isn't a net win. Nor is removing Flash. I know, I know, not pure. I don't care. Removing flash removes so much stuff from the internet. > or is this the feeling of being left out at the side of the road because you have special & specific requirements and preferences that aren't completely common? No, I can't expect that. Honestly I can (and will) deal with Tab Groups and PulseAudio. PluseAudio especially I can understand. And I guess few people used Tab Groups. But Unity and Flash, that's just unpleasant. > but I believe that it's becoming a more and more improved browser for ~everyone~ insofar as that's possible It has in some ways. But they also messed up really bad. For example they switched to WebExtensions before creating a replacement API that Tab Groups would need! Read this if you haven't already: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lXF50-hgOnsJ:fasezero.com/lastnotice.html http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lXF50-h... (he gave up his DNS, that's how badly Mozilla burned him). Why do that? They removed NAPI without leaving any possible alternative. Make the browser better by improving it. Stop making it better by not supporting things. Look at Linux "Never Break Userspace". Linux has things that are hard to support, but they deal, because it's the right thing to do.
  - darklajid 9y ago
    Reading some more into tab groups I guess I understand what you're missing (I'm using Tree Style Tabs, which Work For Me™). The biggest/last blocker seems to be [1]. Pulseaudio? I think that shouldn't be a big issue imo, but you seem to agree here. "Ruined the UI" is a tough one. For me the UI is completely fine and what isn't can be fixed in userChrome.css with little investment. What's broken or ruined? Still unclear about Unity, are you talking about this [2]? It seems to say that this is unsupported/deprecated by the company itself [3]? Hopefully you'll be able to migrate to a current version in the future. The 'start 52 in a sandbox' scenario doesn't sound fun at all. 1: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515 2: https://unity3d.com/webplayer https://unity3d.com/webplayer 3: The Unity Webplayer is no longer supported. We provide this download link to the last build for convenience, but be aware that the Unity Webplayer has been deprecated and will not get any further update. If you want to deliver Unity made content via web browser we recommend you use WebGL.
steanne 9y ago
i recommend waterfox.
arnvidr 9y ago
> ALSA sound (which they also disabled) Not sure what happened here, but on gentoo I still have sound in firefox 57 without having installed either pulseaudio or the apulse shim. Probably some patching by the gentoo devs, but I was ready to install at least the shim, and maybe even pulse itself to get sound, but so far it has not been necessary.