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"Miners break even at $6,925 at China’s top power price." It is my understanding that they don't pay top power price but rather they locate in areas where local

"Miners break even at $6,925 at China’s top power price." It is my understanding that they don't pay top power price but rather they locate in areas where local electricity is abundant and cheap.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
Or where they can split the gains with a corrupt official in exchange for free power...
- bgee 9y ago
  > Or where they can split the gains with a corrupt official in exchange for free power... Has this happened before? It sounds bizarre and Googling gave me nothing.
  - hello_newman 9y ago
    In China, everything has a price...
    - vm 9y ago
      Every country has corruption, both illegal and legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy
      - adventured 9y ago
        The bottom 150-160 countries in terms of corruption are extraordinarily corrupt compared to the top few dozen that are the least corrupt. The gap between New Zealand or Denmark, two of the least corrupt nations, and Croatia or Hungary, is night and day. There is a dramatic acceleration of corruption after you get outside of that general top 30-40 group. Your statement is an equivocation, when in actuality the level of corruption often varies dramatically from nation to nation. Saying every country has corruption is meaningless as such. https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2016 https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept...
      - zero_intp 9y ago
        Hello poster, it would help to add to your comment. Without additional detail it seems like whataboutism.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - robocat 9y ago
    It happens with streetlights in Belgium: https://nytimes.com/2017/12/12/world/europe/belgium-electricity.html https://nytimes.com/2017/12/12/world/europe/belgium-electric... “Streetlight consumption translates into profits for electricity producers, distributors and the state, he said. The profits of electricity distribution companies are paid out ‘in dividends to the local municipalities that own shares in them, and in salaries and stipends to the local politicians who sit on their oversight boards,’ he explained.“
  - moz23 9y ago
    Well, there are things like the US prison system, US telecommunications, US military industry, etc., etc., that would give you lots of good results.
- solotronics 9y ago
  the American concept of corruption is so endemic to him the Chinese system works it's not even really considered corruption there it's just how things work there. it's part of a formal business meeting to give gifts in exchange for favors
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    Westerners who travel abroad on behalf of corporations are trained on this religiously. It’s considered corruption on home turf, and entertaining it can come back on a company quite hard both domestically and internationally, particularly when a government official is involved. “But $trainer, you mean I really have to report the $80 dinner I was treated to in Shanghai?” You bet. If you operate a startup that does deals internationally and aren’t training your team from a risk management standpoint, the legal downside is huge if a government decides to look at you. Start with the Bribery Act of 2010, the FCPA, and so on.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      Agreed. FCPA is ruthlessly enforced. And for good reason.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    There is a difference between giving a gift, even a lavish gift, and trading public services directly for private gain. This isn’t an American or Chinese view. When these arrangements become public, Weibo goes wild and Beijing is incentivised to respond.
  - coupdejarnac 9y ago
    That's a bit hyperbolic. Corruption is illegal there, too. Nobody there cares much until you step on the wrong toes, then you are in serious trouble. It's a case of rule of law vs rule by law.
maxxxxx 9y ago
Do they go and cash out their coins immediately? If Bitcoin ever drops, they may lose everything.
- FabHK 9y ago
  If I recall correctly, bitcoins from a coinbase (mining reward) transaction can only be transferred after 100 blocks confirmation (ie about 16.5 hours). I'd assume that they might keep a bit of a speculative long position, but otherwise liquidate - they have bills to pay.
  - kompiuter 9y ago
    As far as I know only 6 confirmations are required for a transaction to be considered practically irreversible. Is it different for coinbase (reward) transactions?
    - FabHK 9y ago
      That’s my understanding.
    - makomk 9y ago
      Yeah, it's different for coinbase transactions because those transactions and the reward from them vanishes if that block is ever reorganized out of the main chain, whereas ordinary transactions will generally be included in the new chain too. It's as much a protection against technical issues as it is malicious attacks. I think there have been a small handful of reorganisations that are larger than 6 blocks in practice, and this has generally held up well.
- prostoalex 9y ago
  Large shops pretty much have to, either to pay for new ASICs and GPUs in fiat currency, or return capital to existing shareholders.
  - michaelbuckbee 9y ago
LifeofPi314 9y ago
What does break-even mean here. What time frame are you looking at?
- comicjk 9y ago
  I think they're talking about marginal cost of electricity only, assuming the hardware, location, and tech support costs are negligible. I'm not sure how valid that is as an analysis of total profitability. It depends how dominant the electricity costs really are.

"Miners break even at $6,925 at China’s top power price." It is my understanding that they don't pay top power price but rather they locate in areas where local electricity is abundant and cheap.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

Or where they can split the gains with a corrupt official in exchange for free power...

bgee 9y ago
> Or where they can split the gains with a corrupt official in exchange for free power... Has this happened before? It sounds bizarre and Googling gave me nothing.
- hello_newman 9y ago
  In China, everything has a price...
  - vm 9y ago
    Every country has corruption, both illegal and legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy
    - adventured 9y ago
      The bottom 150-160 countries in terms of corruption are extraordinarily corrupt compared to the top few dozen that are the least corrupt. The gap between New Zealand or Denmark, two of the least corrupt nations, and Croatia or Hungary, is night and day. There is a dramatic acceleration of corruption after you get outside of that general top 30-40 group. Your statement is an equivocation, when in actuality the level of corruption often varies dramatically from nation to nation. Saying every country has corruption is meaningless as such. https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2016 https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept...
    - zero_intp 9y ago
      Hello poster, it would help to add to your comment. Without additional detail it seems like whataboutism.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- robocat 9y ago
  It happens with streetlights in Belgium: https://nytimes.com/2017/12/12/world/europe/belgium-electricity.html https://nytimes.com/2017/12/12/world/europe/belgium-electric... “Streetlight consumption translates into profits for electricity producers, distributors and the state, he said. The profits of electricity distribution companies are paid out ‘in dividends to the local municipalities that own shares in them, and in salaries and stipends to the local politicians who sit on their oversight boards,’ he explained.“
- moz23 9y ago
  Well, there are things like the US prison system, US telecommunications, US military industry, etc., etc., that would give you lots of good results.
solotronics 9y ago
the American concept of corruption is so endemic to him the Chinese system works it's not even really considered corruption there it's just how things work there. it's part of a formal business meeting to give gifts in exchange for favors
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Westerners who travel abroad on behalf of corporations are trained on this religiously. It’s considered corruption on home turf, and entertaining it can come back on a company quite hard both domestically and internationally, particularly when a government official is involved. “But $trainer, you mean I really have to report the $80 dinner I was treated to in Shanghai?” You bet. If you operate a startup that does deals internationally and aren’t training your team from a risk management standpoint, the legal downside is huge if a government decides to look at you. Start with the Bribery Act of 2010, the FCPA, and so on.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    Agreed. FCPA is ruthlessly enforced. And for good reason.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  There is a difference between giving a gift, even a lavish gift, and trading public services directly for private gain. This isn’t an American or Chinese view. When these arrangements become public, Weibo goes wild and Beijing is incentivised to respond.
- coupdejarnac 9y ago
  That's a bit hyperbolic. Corruption is illegal there, too. Nobody there cares much until you step on the wrong toes, then you are in serious trouble. It's a case of rule of law vs rule by law.

maxxxxx 9y ago

Do they go and cash out their coins immediately? If Bitcoin ever drops, they may lose everything.

FabHK 9y ago
If I recall correctly, bitcoins from a coinbase (mining reward) transaction can only be transferred after 100 blocks confirmation (ie about 16.5 hours). I'd assume that they might keep a bit of a speculative long position, but otherwise liquidate - they have bills to pay.
- kompiuter 9y ago
  As far as I know only 6 confirmations are required for a transaction to be considered practically irreversible. Is it different for coinbase (reward) transactions?
  - FabHK 9y ago
    That’s my understanding.
  - makomk 9y ago
    Yeah, it's different for coinbase transactions because those transactions and the reward from them vanishes if that block is ever reorganized out of the main chain, whereas ordinary transactions will generally be included in the new chain too. It's as much a protection against technical issues as it is malicious attacks. I think there have been a small handful of reorganisations that are larger than 6 blocks in practice, and this has generally held up well.
prostoalex 9y ago
Large shops pretty much have to, either to pay for new ASICs and GPUs in fiat currency, or return capital to existing shareholders.
- michaelbuckbee 9y ago

LifeofPi314 9y ago

What does break-even mean here. What time frame are you looking at?

comicjk 9y ago
I think they're talking about marginal cost of electricity only, assuming the hardware, location, and tech support costs are negligible. I'm not sure how valid that is as an analysis of total profitability. It depends how dominant the electricity costs really are.