4 ms·

While I don't disagree that that's part of the overall strategy, I have a hard time believing that someone can't find the time once to get an ID every four year

While I don't disagree that that's part of the overall strategy, I have a hard time believing that someone can't find the time once to get an ID every four years. Poor people living literally in the middle of nowhere in a state like Texas work it out, so why can't people in the city? It's rather convenient that the Democrats are always against any measure that would make elections less easy to rig, and provide no active solutions to improve the situation.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
I didn’t have a valid state ID for ten years. I had a passport, but why do I need a state ID if I’m not driving? There are many reasons why people can’t or won’t get state IDs, even if you can’t fathom it. Until we have mandatory federal IDs (which, incidentally, Republicans are usually against because...facism or something), making them required for a civic duty is just dumb and unfair.
- RightMillennial 9y ago
  You can get a state ID that's not a driver's license. I don't how you can get much of anything without an ID. In my experience you cannot bank, get a credit card, rent, setup utilities, get a cell phone, get car insurance (obviously requires a license), or fly (passports do work) without a state ID. What do you for those things without a state ID? Have your parents sign for everything?
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Yes you can. Pay $100, provide your birth certificate, you can get a passport! But...uhm, what if you don't have your birth certificate lying around somewhere? What if its like California, you have to pay $50 and wait in line for a few hours? Or what if you try to get a state ID and they want a utility bill to pay your residence? There are billions of little things. You can do a lot without an ID card. You can even fly with evidence of identity that doesn't require an ID. You can actually bank as long as you know your SS# and can provide another form of identity (e.g. birth certificate). You might not be able to get a credit card, but those are rich people problems. Anyways, there is an entire world that you and I are not very familiar with.
SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
> against any measure that would make elections less easy to rig Is there any evidence that this is happening, in a way that voter ID would prevent?
- pjc50 9y ago
  Apparently not : https://thinkprogress.org/kris-kobach-voter-fraud-findings-ebe089540ede/amp/?__twitter_impression=true https://thinkprogress.org/kris-kobach-voter-fraud-findings-e...
  - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
    Nope. The idea that it's a necessary "measure that would make elections less easy to rig" is a bogus talking point. "It's not hard to get" is the other fallacy, which is subject to huge selection bias "because I found it easy and so did all the people that I know". Many comments here exhibit that, and I can't tell if they're made in good faith or not.
zolthrowaway 9y ago
Have you ever been poor? Have you ever been poor and had kids? It's not as simple as taking a 15 minute drive to the DMV and waiting in line. Many of these people lack access to proper transit systems to get to these places. At least where I live, the DMV is open during normal business hours which may be impossible to get to without taking time off of work. Many of these people are paid hourly which makes this a financial decision as well. It's really hard to miss an hour of work when that could be food or rent. It's really hard to come up with a solution when large swaths of the country or totally opposed to anything that slightly resembles a national ID. While I agree that we could probably be doing something, it's not as simple as telling everyone to go to the DMV.
- fortythirteen 9y ago
  Yes, I have been poor. I worked for minimum wage and could only get around by bus until my twenties and still had an official ID. Have you, or are you assuming what it's like to be poor from the outside?
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Wait, are you claiming you grew up in poverty and still got an ID before you struck out on your own (I was young, worked for minimum wage, got around by bus, but I was far from poor considering my family background)? Did you grow up in a trailer in the middle of the boonies way off some highway somewhere? Did you burn your trash in your backyard in a barrel? I mean, there is, I was young, living on my own, getting around by bus poor, and then there is poor poor.
  - zolthrowaway 9y ago
    If my comment was a little ad hominem, I apologize. I watched my parents struggle growing up. My dad worked in a steel mill. My mom cut hair and cleaned businesses after work. I never saw them not busy. They made a ton of sacrifices to keep a roof over my head and food on the table. Getting an ID would not have been a simple task for them. We lived in public housing and we walked almost everywhere. I watched them struggle to get by every day and to hear someone say "just do something" really makes me upset. It's not that simple. Their life was planned down to the minute. Work, walking me home, second job, making dinner, managing finances down to the penny, etc. All that I am saying is, it's not that simple. People are in some really shitty situations despite doing everything right. Making it harder for these people to vote (who already have trouble finding the time to get to the polls) is just fundamentally wrong in my opinion.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

I didn’t have a valid state ID for ten years. I had a passport, but why do I need a state ID if I’m not driving? There are many reasons why people can’t or won’t get state IDs, even if you can’t fathom it. Until we have mandatory federal IDs (which, incidentally, Republicans are usually against because...facism or something), making them required for a civic duty is just dumb and unfair.

RightMillennial 9y ago
You can get a state ID that's not a driver's license. I don't how you can get much of anything without an ID. In my experience you cannot bank, get a credit card, rent, setup utilities, get a cell phone, get car insurance (obviously requires a license), or fly (passports do work) without a state ID. What do you for those things without a state ID? Have your parents sign for everything?
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Yes you can. Pay $100, provide your birth certificate, you can get a passport! But...uhm, what if you don't have your birth certificate lying around somewhere? What if its like California, you have to pay $50 and wait in line for a few hours? Or what if you try to get a state ID and they want a utility bill to pay your residence? There are billions of little things. You can do a lot without an ID card. You can even fly with evidence of identity that doesn't require an ID. You can actually bank as long as you know your SS# and can provide another form of identity (e.g. birth certificate). You might not be able to get a credit card, but those are rich people problems. Anyways, there is an entire world that you and I are not very familiar with.

SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago

> against any measure that would make elections less easy to rig Is there any evidence that this is happening, in a way that voter ID would prevent?

pjc50 9y ago
Apparently not : https://thinkprogress.org/kris-kobach-voter-fraud-findings-ebe089540ede/amp/?__twitter_impression=true https://thinkprogress.org/kris-kobach-voter-fraud-findings-e...
- SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
  Nope. The idea that it's a necessary "measure that would make elections less easy to rig" is a bogus talking point. "It's not hard to get" is the other fallacy, which is subject to huge selection bias "because I found it easy and so did all the people that I know". Many comments here exhibit that, and I can't tell if they're made in good faith or not.

zolthrowaway 9y ago

Have you ever been poor? Have you ever been poor and had kids? It's not as simple as taking a 15 minute drive to the DMV and waiting in line. Many of these people lack access to proper transit systems to get to these places. At least where I live, the DMV is open during normal business hours which may be impossible to get to without taking time off of work. Many of these people are paid hourly which makes this a financial decision as well. It's really hard to miss an hour of work when that could be food or rent. It's really hard to come up with a solution when large swaths of the country or totally opposed to anything that slightly resembles a national ID. While I agree that we could probably be doing something, it's not as simple as telling everyone to go to the DMV.

fortythirteen 9y ago
Yes, I have been poor. I worked for minimum wage and could only get around by bus until my twenties and still had an official ID. Have you, or are you assuming what it's like to be poor from the outside?
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Wait, are you claiming you grew up in poverty and still got an ID before you struck out on your own (I was young, worked for minimum wage, got around by bus, but I was far from poor considering my family background)? Did you grow up in a trailer in the middle of the boonies way off some highway somewhere? Did you burn your trash in your backyard in a barrel? I mean, there is, I was young, living on my own, getting around by bus poor, and then there is poor poor.
- zolthrowaway 9y ago
  If my comment was a little ad hominem, I apologize. I watched my parents struggle growing up. My dad worked in a steel mill. My mom cut hair and cleaned businesses after work. I never saw them not busy. They made a ton of sacrifices to keep a roof over my head and food on the table. Getting an ID would not have been a simple task for them. We lived in public housing and we walked almost everywhere. I watched them struggle to get by every day and to hear someone say "just do something" really makes me upset. It's not that simple. Their life was planned down to the minute. Work, walking me home, second job, making dinner, managing finances down to the penny, etc. All that I am saying is, it's not that simple. People are in some really shitty situations despite doing everything right. Making it harder for these people to vote (who already have trouble finding the time to get to the polls) is just fundamentally wrong in my opinion.