8 ms·

There's a lot to digest in this article: 1) Absentee landlords are terrible. I can't say I know what the solution is, but perhaps simply lowering the price of

by tabeth 9y ago

There's a lot to digest in this article: 1) Absentee landlords are terrible. I can't say I know what the solution is, but perhaps simply lowering the price of the houses until the (low income) workers could afford to buy and therefore take stake in the community is preferable? 2) Unfortunately the sprawling layout of Hemet in particular is unconducive for creating the kinds of businesses that could at least mark the beginning of a more dense mixed use area. In this case there will have to be pain to raze some of the houses at the very least to help things go in that direction. 3) Broken window effect seems to be in full force with the absentee landlords only throwing fuel to the fire. Ideally the city would help some of these residents sue these landlords to resolve some of these issues, which would help slow the downward spiral of non-maintenance by the residents.

EADGBE 9y ago
As a landlord (I don't like that name, it kinda has a negative connotation) I can see first-hand in dealing with new potential properties the lack of care most landlords have towards their investments. They approach it as an entirely passive income without ponying up the relatively small amount for someone to actually maintain it (Since they're too old or bothered to do it themselves). I think a major windfall could be had with better regulations and rights renters could have protecting them from abusive landlords. The rental regulations in my city are laughable and I have to deal with it almost every time we look at a potential property when I "assess" how much care has been put into its structure, mechanical, appliances, etc. That's even assuming the previous owner permitted the property for such use.
- real_estate 9y ago
  Personal anecdote: I know of a retired magistrate judge that acquired over 30 residential properties via tax-delinquency sales. These properties, not in the best condition, were used as Section 8 HUD housing, with no improvements made. Tactics included keeping the utilities in the landlord's name to be able to shut-off water, electric, or gas at a moment's notice. Many of the tenants were former defendants with the magistrate court that the judge oversaw. Additionally, barter was used in lieu of security deposits and partial rent payments - the tenant could fix-up the property. However, the tenants lacked any ability to properly repair anything, and the repairs caused further damage to the properties. The wife of the landlord, insisted he divest himself of these properties before his death, so she would not have to continue to deal with this. However, he did die, she inherited the properties, and is too old to have the energy to deal with this. As you said, "too old or bothered to do it themselves". Some of these properties now sit unoccupied, but cannot pass inspection because of the substandard repairs, and further disintegrate. I know of one particular property that was not winterized (unoccupied), and I am certain the pipes have frozen and cracked. At this point, the property should be razed (roof issues, structural issues, mildew, pests), but that costs money too.
  - gnarcoregrizz 9y ago
    Some more incoming personal anecdotes from California I briefly rented a small single family home from an 85 yo woman (managed by her son who lived a few towns away). We quickly found out there was black mold everywhere from a bad leak in the garage and a small one in the kitchen, and that she smoked her whole life in the place. She had no interest in keeping it up, she just "wanted to rent it out." Her son had no interest in dealing with it either as he readily admitted to us. I don't think he had seen the place in a long, long time considering the state of the damage. We ended up recouping our costs and moving after a few days. She bought it for $150k 20 years ago, pays $600/year in property taxes so there's no incentive for her to give it up (prop 13). It's valued at $500k and was renting for $2500/mo. Our new place is owned by chinese investors, and also has issues which they aren't interested in fixing. They haven't responded to a single email (I think they are in their early 20s, live in china, and i'm not entirely sure they speak english), we also tried to go thru the property manager who said he won't fix stuff since the landlords are unresponsive. We gave both of them 30 days notice that we need about $500 worth of things fixed. We never heard back, so we did the repairs and just deducted it from the rent, as you're legally allowed to do... come to thing of it, I could propbably not pay rent and squat the place and I'm sure they couldn't give less of a shit.
    - jjav 9y ago
      Property tax in California is at least 1% (typically a bit higher due to various local fees, but let's say 1% for this example). That means if she bought the property 20 years ago for $150K, the property tax in year one was 1% of 150K, or $1500. Under Prop 13 property taxes go up 2% ever year (compounded). So after 20 years that property tax would be up to roughly $2400.
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        That's still pretty insignificant, isn't it?
      - gnarcoregrizz 9y ago
        The assessed value is $61k, the estimated value (according to zillow) is $480k. Property taxes in 2016 were $640. There is a law where 55+ can transfer valuations if they move within counties that participate. https://www.ocgov.com/gov/assessor/programs/55plus#2179 https://www.ocgov.com/gov/assessor/programs/55plus#2179
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- and0 9y ago
  Previous landlord was a nightmare, and renter's rights in VA are non-existant. He was clearly well versed in the law but because he didn't own an absurd amount of active rental units all the normal rights didn't apply. He lived pretty far away and I wasn't legally able to withhold rent or anything (unless doing it through court and paying into an escrow) for the numerous issues that came up. Since then he's tried to withhold the full security deposit, largely for issues that existed when I moved in that he'd (verbally) promised to fix (but refused to commit to over email). I submitted it to small claims around the same time one of my roommates from that house put him down as a (required) reference for a new place, and he called her directly to blackmail her, claiming he would give her a negative reference unless she submitted in writing that she believed all the issues he cited in keeping our deposit were justified. I don't even understand how some people live with themselves. Oh well, court date approaching.
  - coding123 9y ago
    I wish more states did what Oregon does for termed leases. Specifically Oregon rent code makes it so that a renter can never be liable for more than 1.5 months of rent due to a lease break (although correct me in the exact amount). That was something that made it much easier to sign a lease in Oregon just in case it turned out the state's largest gun range was behind the house. I love guns but damn I don't want to hear them go off 10 hours a day. The neighbors were crazy and no longer heard them. shutters... I have since moved out of Oregon because too many Californians have moved in (LOL).
  - sjg007 9y ago
    You prevent this by taking photos and video before you sign the lease agreement highlighting the condition of the place. You can also annotate a document on condition at move as well. Landlord usually has to countersign lease agreement so attach copies of said things to lease. Also send things registered mail to where your landlord accepts checks.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Matthew Desmond’s Evicted is quite good on this topic. It points out that slumlords can get around any tenant protection by being lenient to poor tenants who inevitably get behind on the rent. When they invoke tenant protections, evict for non-payment.
southphillyman 9y ago
Unfortunately real estate deals like the one described in the article are exactly what a lot of landlords are looking for. They are so attractive because many of these landlords live in expensive big cities where the margins are lower.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  Could taxes be drastically increased on rental properties in this area to incentivize owner-occupied homesteads? It seems like neglect by absentee landlords is a big part if the problem, so the money could also be used to increase enforcement against neglected properties.
  - shiftpgdn 9y ago
    This is how things work in Texas. You are allowed a homestead exemption to reduce your property tax by 1% or so.
    - Chaebixi 9y ago
      Yeah, it's how it works where I live too, but what I had in mind was cranking the taxes (and the homestead savings) even higher to drive out bad landlords and up enforcement against the ones that stay.
emodendroket 9y ago
Since the Obama administration it seems the US government is actually moving in the opposite direction, discouraging home ownership and encouraging massive concerns operating multiple properties -- the latest example is the tax code eliminating tax breaks for home owners while creating more tax breaks for multi-property landlords. If you're interested in the topic Matt Stoller has explored it a lot.
- jzymbaluk 9y ago
  From what I've read, economists argue that the Mortgage Interest Deduction is skewed towards benefiting the rich. Rich people buy more expensive houses, which leads to more interest, and a larger deduction. In that respect, the republican tax plan sounds like it was a step in the right direction. here's a source: https://niskanencenter.org/blog/time-repeal-home-mortgage-interest-deduction/ https://niskanencenter.org/blog/time-repeal-home-mortgage-in...
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    I could possibly believe that, in a vacuum, the home mortgage deduction doesn't serve its stated purpose and should be replaced with something else. But I find it easy to be cynical when it's paired with tax breaks for all the costs associated with being a landlord for up to 10 properties. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/12/republican-tax-plan-poised-to-benefit-rental-landlords.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/12/republican-tax-plan-poised-t...
    - davidw 9y ago
      Yeah, overall, that plan was terrible, but the point stands that the US spends billions for the deduction and most of it goes to people who are already pretty well off. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/shame-mortgage-interest-deduction/526635/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/shame-m...
  - clairity 9y ago
    the mortgage interest deduction should be phased out over some period of time (like 5 years), rather than capped like it was in the trump tax bill. economically, it's taxpayer-funded gift to the real estate industry (in the form of higher home prices, higher building costs, higher commissions, more interest, etc.).
astura 9y ago
A better solution is aggressively fining absentee landlords who don't take care of their property and placing a lien on the property if they don't pay the fines. Replacing landlords who don't care to do the upkeep with low income homeowners who can't afford the upkeep is absolutely not a solution.
- MattyRad 9y ago
  The article mentions gated communities... that means there's an HOA right? Are these absentee landlords just ignoring the fines? Would there be any consequence of ignoring an HOA fine? I'm not a homeowner so my knowledge of HOAs and their role is very limited.
  - astura 9y ago
    I don't know if gated communities have an HOA by definition but if you don't pay money you owe to your HOA depending on laws of the state and HOA agreements, they could put a lien on your property as well. However, it's possible to have an HOA that just doesn't give a shit and does no enforcing. It's already illegal to not do certain maintenance on your house (blight, etc.) especially if you have tenants living there. (tenant protection laws) So enforcement is the key.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      > I don't know if gated communities have an HOA by definition Almost every new/private development (as opposed to houses built along public roads or something) has one. That's how the resources to build up the common area are marshaled.
      - astura 9y ago
        Yeah, I know. I think of the definition of "gated community" as a little squishy so I wasn't sure of absolutes. Now that I think about it more though, the "gate" part pretty much necessitates private roads as public roads would be open to the public. Kinda feel silly, "public" is in the name.
pascalxus 9y ago
Section 8 isn't helping either. I've noticed a trend, whenever a neighborhood goes section 8, the crime tends to sky-rocket. This happened in a neighborhood near where I live too.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  Ironically, this is exactly the problem of ghettoization of the low income that Section 8 vouchers are supposed to mitigate; the problem is because landlords have the option to participate or not, it still ends up with concentration.

by tabeth 9y ago

EADGBE 9y ago

As a landlord (I don't like that name, it kinda has a negative connotation) I can see first-hand in dealing with new potential properties the lack of care most landlords have towards their investments. They approach it as an entirely passive income without ponying up the relatively small amount for someone to actually maintain it (Since they're too old or bothered to do it themselves). I think a major windfall could be had with better regulations and rights renters could have protecting them from abusive landlords. The rental regulations in my city are laughable and I have to deal with it almost every time we look at a potential property when I "assess" how much care has been put into its structure, mechanical, appliances, etc. That's even assuming the previous owner permitted the property for such use.

real_estate 9y ago
Personal anecdote: I know of a retired magistrate judge that acquired over 30 residential properties via tax-delinquency sales. These properties, not in the best condition, were used as Section 8 HUD housing, with no improvements made. Tactics included keeping the utilities in the landlord's name to be able to shut-off water, electric, or gas at a moment's notice. Many of the tenants were former defendants with the magistrate court that the judge oversaw. Additionally, barter was used in lieu of security deposits and partial rent payments - the tenant could fix-up the property. However, the tenants lacked any ability to properly repair anything, and the repairs caused further damage to the properties. The wife of the landlord, insisted he divest himself of these properties before his death, so she would not have to continue to deal with this. However, he did die, she inherited the properties, and is too old to have the energy to deal with this. As you said, "too old or bothered to do it themselves". Some of these properties now sit unoccupied, but cannot pass inspection because of the substandard repairs, and further disintegrate. I know of one particular property that was not winterized (unoccupied), and I am certain the pipes have frozen and cracked. At this point, the property should be razed (roof issues, structural issues, mildew, pests), but that costs money too.
- gnarcoregrizz 9y ago
  Some more incoming personal anecdotes from California I briefly rented a small single family home from an 85 yo woman (managed by her son who lived a few towns away). We quickly found out there was black mold everywhere from a bad leak in the garage and a small one in the kitchen, and that she smoked her whole life in the place. She had no interest in keeping it up, she just "wanted to rent it out." Her son had no interest in dealing with it either as he readily admitted to us. I don't think he had seen the place in a long, long time considering the state of the damage. We ended up recouping our costs and moving after a few days. She bought it for $150k 20 years ago, pays $600/year in property taxes so there's no incentive for her to give it up (prop 13). It's valued at $500k and was renting for $2500/mo. Our new place is owned by chinese investors, and also has issues which they aren't interested in fixing. They haven't responded to a single email (I think they are in their early 20s, live in china, and i'm not entirely sure they speak english), we also tried to go thru the property manager who said he won't fix stuff since the landlords are unresponsive. We gave both of them 30 days notice that we need about $500 worth of things fixed. We never heard back, so we did the repairs and just deducted it from the rent, as you're legally allowed to do... come to thing of it, I could propbably not pay rent and squat the place and I'm sure they couldn't give less of a shit.
  - jjav 9y ago
    Property tax in California is at least 1% (typically a bit higher due to various local fees, but let's say 1% for this example). That means if she bought the property 20 years ago for $150K, the property tax in year one was 1% of 150K, or $1500. Under Prop 13 property taxes go up 2% ever year (compounded). So after 20 years that property tax would be up to roughly $2400.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      That's still pretty insignificant, isn't it?
    - gnarcoregrizz 9y ago
      The assessed value is $61k, the estimated value (according to zillow) is $480k. Property taxes in 2016 were $640. There is a law where 55+ can transfer valuations if they move within counties that participate. https://www.ocgov.com/gov/assessor/programs/55plus#2179 https://www.ocgov.com/gov/assessor/programs/55plus#2179
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
and0 9y ago
Previous landlord was a nightmare, and renter's rights in VA are non-existant. He was clearly well versed in the law but because he didn't own an absurd amount of active rental units all the normal rights didn't apply. He lived pretty far away and I wasn't legally able to withhold rent or anything (unless doing it through court and paying into an escrow) for the numerous issues that came up. Since then he's tried to withhold the full security deposit, largely for issues that existed when I moved in that he'd (verbally) promised to fix (but refused to commit to over email). I submitted it to small claims around the same time one of my roommates from that house put him down as a (required) reference for a new place, and he called her directly to blackmail her, claiming he would give her a negative reference unless she submitted in writing that she believed all the issues he cited in keeping our deposit were justified. I don't even understand how some people live with themselves. Oh well, court date approaching.
- coding123 9y ago
  I wish more states did what Oregon does for termed leases. Specifically Oregon rent code makes it so that a renter can never be liable for more than 1.5 months of rent due to a lease break (although correct me in the exact amount). That was something that made it much easier to sign a lease in Oregon just in case it turned out the state's largest gun range was behind the house. I love guns but damn I don't want to hear them go off 10 hours a day. The neighbors were crazy and no longer heard them. shutters... I have since moved out of Oregon because too many Californians have moved in (LOL).
- sjg007 9y ago
  You prevent this by taking photos and video before you sign the lease agreement highlighting the condition of the place. You can also annotate a document on condition at move as well. Landlord usually has to countersign lease agreement so attach copies of said things to lease. Also send things registered mail to where your landlord accepts checks.
closeparen 9y ago
Matthew Desmond’s Evicted is quite good on this topic. It points out that slumlords can get around any tenant protection by being lenient to poor tenants who inevitably get behind on the rent. When they invoke tenant protections, evict for non-payment.

southphillyman 9y ago

Unfortunately real estate deals like the one described in the article are exactly what a lot of landlords are looking for. They are so attractive because many of these landlords live in expensive big cities where the margins are lower.

Chaebixi 9y ago
Could taxes be drastically increased on rental properties in this area to incentivize owner-occupied homesteads? It seems like neglect by absentee landlords is a big part if the problem, so the money could also be used to increase enforcement against neglected properties.
- shiftpgdn 9y ago
  This is how things work in Texas. You are allowed a homestead exemption to reduce your property tax by 1% or so.
  - Chaebixi 9y ago
    Yeah, it's how it works where I live too, but what I had in mind was cranking the taxes (and the homestead savings) even higher to drive out bad landlords and up enforcement against the ones that stay.

emodendroket 9y ago

Since the Obama administration it seems the US government is actually moving in the opposite direction, discouraging home ownership and encouraging massive concerns operating multiple properties -- the latest example is the tax code eliminating tax breaks for home owners while creating more tax breaks for multi-property landlords. If you're interested in the topic Matt Stoller has explored it a lot.

jzymbaluk 9y ago
From what I've read, economists argue that the Mortgage Interest Deduction is skewed towards benefiting the rich. Rich people buy more expensive houses, which leads to more interest, and a larger deduction. In that respect, the republican tax plan sounds like it was a step in the right direction. here's a source: https://niskanencenter.org/blog/time-repeal-home-mortgage-interest-deduction/ https://niskanencenter.org/blog/time-repeal-home-mortgage-in...
- emodendroket 9y ago
  I could possibly believe that, in a vacuum, the home mortgage deduction doesn't serve its stated purpose and should be replaced with something else. But I find it easy to be cynical when it's paired with tax breaks for all the costs associated with being a landlord for up to 10 properties. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/12/republican-tax-plan-poised-to-benefit-rental-landlords.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/12/republican-tax-plan-poised-t...
  - davidw 9y ago
    Yeah, overall, that plan was terrible, but the point stands that the US spends billions for the deduction and most of it goes to people who are already pretty well off. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/shame-mortgage-interest-deduction/526635/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/shame-m...
- clairity 9y ago
  the mortgage interest deduction should be phased out over some period of time (like 5 years), rather than capped like it was in the trump tax bill. economically, it's taxpayer-funded gift to the real estate industry (in the form of higher home prices, higher building costs, higher commissions, more interest, etc.).

astura 9y ago

A better solution is aggressively fining absentee landlords who don't take care of their property and placing a lien on the property if they don't pay the fines. Replacing landlords who don't care to do the upkeep with low income homeowners who can't afford the upkeep is absolutely not a solution.

MattyRad 9y ago
The article mentions gated communities... that means there's an HOA right? Are these absentee landlords just ignoring the fines? Would there be any consequence of ignoring an HOA fine? I'm not a homeowner so my knowledge of HOAs and their role is very limited.
- astura 9y ago
  I don't know if gated communities have an HOA by definition but if you don't pay money you owe to your HOA depending on laws of the state and HOA agreements, they could put a lien on your property as well. However, it's possible to have an HOA that just doesn't give a shit and does no enforcing. It's already illegal to not do certain maintenance on your house (blight, etc.) especially if you have tenants living there. (tenant protection laws) So enforcement is the key.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    > I don't know if gated communities have an HOA by definition Almost every new/private development (as opposed to houses built along public roads or something) has one. That's how the resources to build up the common area are marshaled.
    - astura 9y ago
      Yeah, I know. I think of the definition of "gated community" as a little squishy so I wasn't sure of absolutes. Now that I think about it more though, the "gate" part pretty much necessitates private roads as public roads would be open to the public. Kinda feel silly, "public" is in the name.

pascalxus 9y ago

Section 8 isn't helping either. I've noticed a trend, whenever a neighborhood goes section 8, the crime tends to sky-rocket. This happened in a neighborhood near where I live too.

dragonwriter 9y ago
Ironically, this is exactly the problem of ghettoization of the low income that Section 8 vouchers are supposed to mitigate; the problem is because landlords have the option to participate or not, it still ends up with concentration.