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I think the ultimate ideal that humans should strive to is to learn to live without a ruler. If that's impossible then learn to live under the rule of an automa

I think the ultimate ideal that humans should strive to is to learn to live without a ruler. If that's impossible then learn to live under the rule of an automaton. I guess what I am trying to say is that we need to move away from our current thinking and consider the possibility of governance without an ultimate authority.

Momquist 9y ago
> If that's impossible then learn to live under the rule of an automaton. I guess you mean some kind of computer/AI? Then who rules (programs) the AI, rules the world. This is definitely no anarchy. Ceding authority to a machine only serves to hide the real rulers. Check This Perfect Day by Ira Levin, for a perspective on what kind of world this could lead to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Perfect_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Perfect_Day
- pow_pp_-1_v 9y ago
  Yes, I considered the problem of who programs the automaton. But I was hoping by the time we cede control to the machine, our species will be enlightened enough to come up with a set of rules that are "reasonable" enough. The important thing here is not the automaton but reaching that enlightened state.
stanfordkid 9y ago
This is actually the future I see: any smart and noble ruler would seek to reach this society and would enact systems that make them obsolete. A good CEO builds something without him there and I think the optimistic view of a singular ruler is that they would empower people enough over the period of their rule that distributed rule would be possible and we would no longer have bloated centralized governments.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  The problem is, that singular noble ruler would have to survive long enough to implement their plan fully, probably facing organized opposition throughout it all. (Related to Maciej's talk - I vaguely remember the Bible saying something about a good ruler dying, and his work being undone by a clueless son; I can't find the passage now, though.) BTW. I see you implying that smart and noble ruler would implement a one-time solution that forever relieves us from the need of organized governance. That's very similar of what the Friendly-AI Problem crowd talks about - you get only one shot at this, and if you screw it up, you screw up everything, forever.

Momquist 9y ago

> If that's impossible then learn to live under the rule of an automaton. I guess you mean some kind of computer/AI? Then who rules (programs) the AI, rules the world. This is definitely no anarchy. Ceding authority to a machine only serves to hide the real rulers. Check This Perfect Day by Ira Levin, for a perspective on what kind of world this could lead to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Perfect_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Perfect_Day

pow_pp_-1_v 9y ago
Yes, I considered the problem of who programs the automaton. But I was hoping by the time we cede control to the machine, our species will be enlightened enough to come up with a set of rules that are "reasonable" enough. The important thing here is not the automaton but reaching that enlightened state.

stanfordkid 9y ago

This is actually the future I see: any smart and noble ruler would seek to reach this society and would enact systems that make them obsolete. A good CEO builds something without him there and I think the optimistic view of a singular ruler is that they would empower people enough over the period of their rule that distributed rule would be possible and we would no longer have bloated centralized governments.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
The problem is, that singular noble ruler would have to survive long enough to implement their plan fully, probably facing organized opposition throughout it all. (Related to Maciej's talk - I vaguely remember the Bible saying something about a good ruler dying, and his work being undone by a clueless son; I can't find the passage now, though.) BTW. I see you implying that smart and noble ruler would implement a one-time solution that forever relieves us from the need of organized governance. That's very similar of what the Friendly-AI Problem crowd talks about - you get only one shot at this, and if you screw it up, you screw up everything, forever.