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I agree. Over a decade ago when I was a freshman in college I participated in an AdSense click ring with my dormmates. We made $200 or so each, which was cool a

I agree. Over a decade ago when I was a freshman in college I participated in an AdSense click ring with my dormmates. We made $200 or so each, which was cool at that age. Within a few months we got caught and banned from AdSense. Now I have a YouTube channel with tens of thousands of viewers but I can’t monetize it at all, even though YouTube wasn’t even part of the same company as AdSense when my silly freshman experiment went down.

dave5104 9y ago
Not sure if this'll help your situation, but I did something equally dumb when I was back in high school. Clicked on my own ads, got banned from AdSense, etc. (Luckily, it didn't affect my other Google services at the time.) Recently, however, a Google AdSense sales rep reached out to me trying to sell me on AdSense. I explained the past situation and that I was "banned", but this sales rep was apparently able to get that lifted and get me back into the program. I never ended up using AdSense, but I now have an open account that isn't blocked anymore. Might help in your situation if you ever run into a Google sales rep.
reallymental 9y ago
> I agree. Over a decade ago when I was a freshman in college I participated in an AdSense click ring with my dormmates. We made $200 or so each, which was cool at that age. Within a few months we got caught and banned from AdSense. Now I have a YouTube channel with tens of thousands of viewers but I can’t monetize it at all, even though YouTube wasn’t even part of the same company as AdSense when my silly freshman experiment went down. If your viewers are recurrent, then you might want to ask them to support you via a 3rd channel such as patreon? You need not lose revenue from the content you create through alphabets' vague rules and products.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  > You need not lose revenue from the content you create through alphabets' vague rules and products. In fairness, Alphabet's "don't ever defraud us" rules are quite clear, and it's hardly surprising they don't trust someone with that on their record.
ajross 9y ago
Sorry, why should that matter? Google doesn't trust you to honor your advertising contract because you didn't in the past and they know it because they literally caught your fraud themselves. You seem to be arguing that a technicality should allow you to use other ad mechanisms, but that's not how real work risk analysis (or morality!) works. You get the same treatment from banks: default on one loan and they'll tell the others (via credit reporting agencies), because that information is something they need to make good business decisions.
- mattzito 9y ago
  > You get the same treatment from banks: default on one loan and they'll tell the others (via credit reporting agencies), because that information is something they need to make good business decisions. At least in the US, negative events on your credit report disappear after 7 years.
  - ceejayoz 9y ago
    There's more than just a credit report involved, though. There might be a ChexSystems report that trips you up, for example.
  - megy 9y ago
    Try going to the same bank you defrauded and getting a loan?
    - dazc 9y ago
      True. The statute of limitations (or whatever the consumer credit regulations equivalent is called?) doesn't extend to what individual organisations already know about you.
- thomasahle 9y ago
  Actually, loans are a good example, since there is a very clear path to making things good again. Typically this involves 10 years of trouble, but that is still better than being completely in the darkness as you slowly get cut off from more and more services (as Google expands.)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nine_k 9y ago
If one wants to do a silly experiment with a Google account, it's a good idea to create a new Google account just for that, and not use the regular and important one. If one has done some silly experiments in the past, it may be reasonable to create a new Google account as the "regular and important", and get email old redirected to it. This kind of online hygiene will only become more and more important as online identities calcify.
- OkGoDoIt 9y ago
  I did use a different account, but Google is very good at tracing accounts back to the underlying person. Especially with AdSense, you've got to enter your SSN, which even if your email, address, phone, and whatever else are unblemished will cause the new account to get auto-flagged as well, which as far as I can tell then propagates to that email, phone, etc. My YouTube account used to be somewhat separate, but during the whole Google Plus integration timeframe they forced you to tie it to your real identity. Which just goes to cement the original point of the dangers of using one master account for so many different services, things that used to be separate end up a mess. See also my various Skype, Zune, Xbox Live, MSDN, Office 365, and Windows accounts which cause me so much annoyance now that Microsoft has integrated a lot of the backend. Anyway not trying to justify the questionable morals of a college freshman, but it's good to keep in mind the downstream effects of a seemingly minor infraction when multiplied by one corporation controlling so many different types of services.
analogmemory 9y ago
You can't create a new account?
- OkGoDoIt 9y ago
  I've tried. Sure I can create new accounts but Google is very good at tracing accounts back to the underlying person. Especially with AdSense, you've got to enter your SSN, which even if your email, address, phone, and whatever else are unblemished will cause the new account to get auto-flagged as well, which as far as I can tell then propagates to that email, phone, etc.
  - dingaling 9y ago
    > Especially with AdSense you've got to enter your SSN How does that work for corporate accounts? Surely an employee can't be expected to submit personal information on behalf of their employer.
    - gbear605 9y ago
      Companies have EINs (Employer Identification Numbers) that function like SSNs and are probably what they submit for that.
      - OkGoDoIt 9y ago
        Correct. In theory I could get an EIN for my own company and use that instead, but that's more hoops than I'm willing to jump through and I'm not even 100% sure that would solve my problem, as they may tie it back to me another way.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> when I was a freshman in college I participated in an AdSense click ring with my dormmates Heads up, you just admitted to fraud in writing from an account mentioning your employer, an employer in a regulated industry.
dazc 9y ago
'...when my silly freshman experiment went down.' There are plenty of people today living with the consequences of their adolescent actions. Adsense fraud is by no means the worst example. As someone who was never tempted to do this, even during 3 months of homelessness, forgive me if I don't shed any tears.

dave5104 9y ago

Not sure if this'll help your situation, but I did something equally dumb when I was back in high school. Clicked on my own ads, got banned from AdSense, etc. (Luckily, it didn't affect my other Google services at the time.) Recently, however, a Google AdSense sales rep reached out to me trying to sell me on AdSense. I explained the past situation and that I was "banned", but this sales rep was apparently able to get that lifted and get me back into the program. I never ended up using AdSense, but I now have an open account that isn't blocked anymore. Might help in your situation if you ever run into a Google sales rep.

reallymental 9y ago

> I agree. Over a decade ago when I was a freshman in college I participated in an AdSense click ring with my dormmates. We made $200 or so each, which was cool at that age. Within a few months we got caught and banned from AdSense. Now I have a YouTube channel with tens of thousands of viewers but I can’t monetize it at all, even though YouTube wasn’t even part of the same company as AdSense when my silly freshman experiment went down. If your viewers are recurrent, then you might want to ask them to support you via a 3rd channel such as patreon? You need not lose revenue from the content you create through alphabets' vague rules and products.

ceejayoz 9y ago
> You need not lose revenue from the content you create through alphabets' vague rules and products. In fairness, Alphabet's "don't ever defraud us" rules are quite clear, and it's hardly surprising they don't trust someone with that on their record.

ajross 9y ago

Sorry, why should that matter? Google doesn't trust you to honor your advertising contract because you didn't in the past and they know it because they literally caught your fraud themselves. You seem to be arguing that a technicality should allow you to use other ad mechanisms, but that's not how real work risk analysis (or morality!) works. You get the same treatment from banks: default on one loan and they'll tell the others (via credit reporting agencies), because that information is something they need to make good business decisions.

mattzito 9y ago
> You get the same treatment from banks: default on one loan and they'll tell the others (via credit reporting agencies), because that information is something they need to make good business decisions. At least in the US, negative events on your credit report disappear after 7 years.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  There's more than just a credit report involved, though. There might be a ChexSystems report that trips you up, for example.
- megy 9y ago
  Try going to the same bank you defrauded and getting a loan?
  - dazc 9y ago
    True. The statute of limitations (or whatever the consumer credit regulations equivalent is called?) doesn't extend to what individual organisations already know about you.
thomasahle 9y ago
Actually, loans are a good example, since there is a very clear path to making things good again. Typically this involves 10 years of trouble, but that is still better than being completely in the darkness as you slowly get cut off from more and more services (as Google expands.)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

nine_k 9y ago

If one wants to do a silly experiment with a Google account, it's a good idea to create a new Google account just for that, and not use the regular and important one. If one has done some silly experiments in the past, it may be reasonable to create a new Google account as the "regular and important", and get email old redirected to it. This kind of online hygiene will only become more and more important as online identities calcify.

OkGoDoIt 9y ago
I did use a different account, but Google is very good at tracing accounts back to the underlying person. Especially with AdSense, you've got to enter your SSN, which even if your email, address, phone, and whatever else are unblemished will cause the new account to get auto-flagged as well, which as far as I can tell then propagates to that email, phone, etc. My YouTube account used to be somewhat separate, but during the whole Google Plus integration timeframe they forced you to tie it to your real identity. Which just goes to cement the original point of the dangers of using one master account for so many different services, things that used to be separate end up a mess. See also my various Skype, Zune, Xbox Live, MSDN, Office 365, and Windows accounts which cause me so much annoyance now that Microsoft has integrated a lot of the backend. Anyway not trying to justify the questionable morals of a college freshman, but it's good to keep in mind the downstream effects of a seemingly minor infraction when multiplied by one corporation controlling so many different types of services.

analogmemory 9y ago

You can't create a new account?

OkGoDoIt 9y ago
I've tried. Sure I can create new accounts but Google is very good at tracing accounts back to the underlying person. Especially with AdSense, you've got to enter your SSN, which even if your email, address, phone, and whatever else are unblemished will cause the new account to get auto-flagged as well, which as far as I can tell then propagates to that email, phone, etc.
- dingaling 9y ago
  > Especially with AdSense you've got to enter your SSN How does that work for corporate accounts? Surely an employee can't be expected to submit personal information on behalf of their employer.
  - gbear605 9y ago
    Companies have EINs (Employer Identification Numbers) that function like SSNs and are probably what they submit for that.
    - OkGoDoIt 9y ago
      Correct. In theory I could get an EIN for my own company and use that instead, but that's more hoops than I'm willing to jump through and I'm not even 100% sure that would solve my problem, as they may tie it back to me another way.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> when I was a freshman in college I participated in an AdSense click ring with my dormmates Heads up, you just admitted to fraud in writing from an account mentioning your employer, an employer in a regulated industry.

dazc 9y ago

'...when my silly freshman experiment went down.' There are plenty of people today living with the consequences of their adolescent actions. Adsense fraud is by no means the worst example. As someone who was never tempted to do this, even during 3 months of homelessness, forgive me if I don't shed any tears.