7 ms·

From the little "Sloth" wrote, it sounds like it's possible she might have undiagnosed ADHD. As someone with ADHD myself, I instantly recognized the inability

From the little "Sloth" wrote, it sounds like it's possible she might have undiagnosed ADHD. As someone with ADHD myself, I instantly recognized the inability to get myself to start working on something until the last minute (even if I really, really want to do it) and the piles clothes (despite my propensity for cleanliness). Another hallmark of ADHD that many don't know about is bursts of almost manic productivity for random tasks or when under extreme pressure. If she does have ADHD, Polly's answer is both unhelpful and somewhat dangerous.

ajkjk 9y ago
I think that's a little extreme and reminds me of the problematic trend of giving psychiatric medication to anyone who asks for it. I mean, yes, there's a chance they 'actually have ADHD', but there's also a much higher chance they are one of the tremendous number of people who have trouble getting themselves to do things that aren't urgent. I'm on that list too. So are lots of people. Sloth sounds so incredibly normal to me.
- sudosteph 9y ago
  Everyone procrastinates sometimes, the difference with ADHD is the frequency and severity. So if this person procrastinates every day of her life, and it consistently impacts her functioning and relationships, it becomes out of the norm. ADHD is actually decently prevalent, but often missed in girls who are not disruptive in class. Often they can get by with a strong support structure (parents and partners) but struggle with the independence of adulthood, which OP described. The risks of untreated ADHD can be far more destructive than many people realize (car crashes, depression, financial insecurity) so it's at least worth evaluating for in cases like this.
- taneq 9y ago
  I'm not sure "actually have ADHD" is a thing. (Edit: Emphasis on "actually", not on "ADHD". ADHD is a thing. In between "really do have it" and "really don't have it", though, is a huge grey area, and that's what I'm getting at.) I mean, there are certainly people (maybe even most people) who function better on stimulants. And there are certainly people who don't function well when not on stimulants. But it's all a set of sliding scales, there's no clear line with "has ADHD" on one side and "just lazy" on the other.
  - sudosteph 9y ago
    The science is not on your side for this view. I suggest you read up to get a more informed view, Dr. Russell Barkley is a great resource, has videos all over youtube. In the meantime, here's a quote from "International Consensus Statement on ADHD" (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, Vol. 5, No. 2, June 2002) > We cannot overemphasize the point that, as a matter of science, the notion that ADHD does not exist is simply wrong. All of the major medical as- sociations and government health agencies recognize ADHD as a genuine disorder because the scientific evidence indicating it is so overwhelming.
    - taneq 9y ago
      I'm not saying ADHD doesn't exist or that it's not a genuine disorder. I'm saying that there's a huge no-mans-land between "you're fine" and "woah yeah you clearly have ADHD and we should fix this."
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        Indeed there is, and the way psychiatry approaches it in terms of diagnosis isn't really good, either. There is a long but very insightful article on this topic that was recently featured on HN, by Scott Alexander, who's a practicing psychiatrist: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mor... Key quote for this topic: > But “ability to concentrate” is a normally distributed trait, like IQ. We draw a line at some point on the far left of the bell curve and tell the people on the far side that they’ve “got” “the disease” of “ADHD”. This isn’t just me saying this. It’s the neurostructural literature, the the genetics literature, a bunch of other studies, and the the Consensus Conference On ADHD. This doesn’t mean ADHD is “just laziness” or “isn’t biological” – of course it’s biological! Height is biological! But that doesn’t mean the world is divided into two natural categories of “healthy people” and “people who have Height Deficiency Syndrome“. Attention is the same way. Some people really do have poor concentration, they suffer a lot from it, and it’s not their fault. They just don’t form a discrete population. (Emphasis mine - pointing out the sentence which, in original article, is basically one big collection of links to references backing it up.)
sudosteph 9y ago
I didn't see your comment when I posted mine, but that was my take as well (another ADHD person here). I hope she doesn't though, because if so she will be terribly disappointed in herself when she loses enthusiasm and is back to square one 2 weeks later. She's already beating herself over what she perceives as a flaw of laziness (despite being educated, employed and mostly functional). At a point the bigger problem with adult ADHD is how much you end up beating yourself up. It's a good thing to try to keep yourself honest and accountable for your actions as an adult, but when your brain just doesn't cooperate you need to learn to forgive yourself and depend on external systems where possible. I dont think this advice will help much with that.
Someone1234 9y ago
> I instantly recognized the inability to get myself to start working on something until the last minute (even if I really, really want to do it) and the piles clothes (despite my propensity for cleanliness). Another hallmark of ADHD that many don't know about is bursts of almost manic productivity for random tasks or when under extreme pressure. This also describes a lot of people's normal behavior. I don't have ADHD and do everything you describe and my wife does too.
encoderer 9y ago
Yeah. Recommend the book “driven to distraction” to people wanting to learn more
manigandham 9y ago
That's just normal, not ADHD (which is way too overdiagnosed at this point and would fit 90% of people I meet). People are lazy, but they also do not want to completely ruin their life, so they will wait until they realize they cant wait anymore, doing the minimum amount at the last minute to meet the goal.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- adrusi 9y ago
  What do you think ADHD is? It's defined by its diagnostic criteria, and those are very vague. There's certainly no consensus that ADHD is anything other than a term to describe the lowest performers on the metrics which Adderall improves. ADHD is definitely not some kind of genetic defect of the prefrontal cortex or anything of that sort.
  - manigandham 9y ago
    Being lazy is not an attention deficit or hyperactivity. Most people can focus just fine, as they do when the deadline approaches. The situation described in the parent post is an issue of motivation and discipline, not attention. To be more clear as to the diagnosis: there is a definite difference between people who don't want to pay attention to certain tasks (the vast majority) and those who cant (the minority that do have legitimate ADHD).
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      You're all wrong wrt. the scientific consensus :). The current consensus is that the ability to concentrate for longer periods on all the bullshit our modern lives are throwing at us is a normally distributed trait in the population, and ADHD is an arbitrary cutoff on that distribution. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16090523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16090523 for details.
      - 9y ago
whiddershins 9y ago
Huh. As someone with diagnosed ADHD and who has (in the past) taken appropriate medication, I still thought the advice rang true. How you conceptualize your identity is a huge factor in addressing behavior pattern ambivalence. For me it somehow dovetails perfectly with a neurochemistry explanation because there's no bright line separating this stuff.
- adrusi 9y ago
  I want to unilaterally echo this. As a kid I coped with my inability to complete school assignments on time by not identifying with success in school. This reinforced my existing faults. Learning to crush that coping mechanism out of existence was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
mynameishere 9y ago
Just in case it's not clear, "Sloth" and the author of the column are the same person.

ajkjk 9y ago

I think that's a little extreme and reminds me of the problematic trend of giving psychiatric medication to anyone who asks for it. I mean, yes, there's a chance they 'actually have ADHD', but there's also a much higher chance they are one of the tremendous number of people who have trouble getting themselves to do things that aren't urgent. I'm on that list too. So are lots of people. Sloth sounds so incredibly normal to me.

sudosteph 9y ago
Everyone procrastinates sometimes, the difference with ADHD is the frequency and severity. So if this person procrastinates every day of her life, and it consistently impacts her functioning and relationships, it becomes out of the norm. ADHD is actually decently prevalent, but often missed in girls who are not disruptive in class. Often they can get by with a strong support structure (parents and partners) but struggle with the independence of adulthood, which OP described. The risks of untreated ADHD can be far more destructive than many people realize (car crashes, depression, financial insecurity) so it's at least worth evaluating for in cases like this.
taneq 9y ago
I'm not sure "actually have ADHD" is a thing. (Edit: Emphasis on "actually", not on "ADHD". ADHD is a thing. In between "really do have it" and "really don't have it", though, is a huge grey area, and that's what I'm getting at.) I mean, there are certainly people (maybe even most people) who function better on stimulants. And there are certainly people who don't function well when not on stimulants. But it's all a set of sliding scales, there's no clear line with "has ADHD" on one side and "just lazy" on the other.
- sudosteph 9y ago
  The science is not on your side for this view. I suggest you read up to get a more informed view, Dr. Russell Barkley is a great resource, has videos all over youtube. In the meantime, here's a quote from "International Consensus Statement on ADHD" (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, Vol. 5, No. 2, June 2002) > We cannot overemphasize the point that, as a matter of science, the notion that ADHD does not exist is simply wrong. All of the major medical as- sociations and government health agencies recognize ADHD as a genuine disorder because the scientific evidence indicating it is so overwhelming.
  - taneq 9y ago
    I'm not saying ADHD doesn't exist or that it's not a genuine disorder. I'm saying that there's a huge no-mans-land between "you're fine" and "woah yeah you clearly have ADHD and we should fix this."
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      Indeed there is, and the way psychiatry approaches it in terms of diagnosis isn't really good, either. There is a long but very insightful article on this topic that was recently featured on HN, by Scott Alexander, who's a practicing psychiatrist: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mor... Key quote for this topic: > But “ability to concentrate” is a normally distributed trait, like IQ. We draw a line at some point on the far left of the bell curve and tell the people on the far side that they’ve “got” “the disease” of “ADHD”. This isn’t just me saying this. It’s the neurostructural literature, the the genetics literature, a bunch of other studies, and the the Consensus Conference On ADHD. This doesn’t mean ADHD is “just laziness” or “isn’t biological” – of course it’s biological! Height is biological! But that doesn’t mean the world is divided into two natural categories of “healthy people” and “people who have Height Deficiency Syndrome“. Attention is the same way. Some people really do have poor concentration, they suffer a lot from it, and it’s not their fault. They just don’t form a discrete population. (Emphasis mine - pointing out the sentence which, in original article, is basically one big collection of links to references backing it up.)

sudosteph 9y ago

I didn't see your comment when I posted mine, but that was my take as well (another ADHD person here). I hope she doesn't though, because if so she will be terribly disappointed in herself when she loses enthusiasm and is back to square one 2 weeks later. She's already beating herself over what she perceives as a flaw of laziness (despite being educated, employed and mostly functional). At a point the bigger problem with adult ADHD is how much you end up beating yourself up. It's a good thing to try to keep yourself honest and accountable for your actions as an adult, but when your brain just doesn't cooperate you need to learn to forgive yourself and depend on external systems where possible. I dont think this advice will help much with that.

Someone1234 9y ago

> I instantly recognized the inability to get myself to start working on something until the last minute (even if I really, really want to do it) and the piles clothes (despite my propensity for cleanliness). Another hallmark of ADHD that many don't know about is bursts of almost manic productivity for random tasks or when under extreme pressure. This also describes a lot of people's normal behavior. I don't have ADHD and do everything you describe and my wife does too.

encoderer 9y ago

Yeah. Recommend the book “driven to distraction” to people wanting to learn more

manigandham 9y ago

That's just normal, not ADHD (which is way too overdiagnosed at this point and would fit 90% of people I meet). People are lazy, but they also do not want to completely ruin their life, so they will wait until they realize they cant wait anymore, doing the minimum amount at the last minute to meet the goal.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
adrusi 9y ago
What do you think ADHD is? It's defined by its diagnostic criteria, and those are very vague. There's certainly no consensus that ADHD is anything other than a term to describe the lowest performers on the metrics which Adderall improves. ADHD is definitely not some kind of genetic defect of the prefrontal cortex or anything of that sort.
- manigandham 9y ago
  Being lazy is not an attention deficit or hyperactivity. Most people can focus just fine, as they do when the deadline approaches. The situation described in the parent post is an issue of motivation and discipline, not attention. To be more clear as to the diagnosis: there is a definite difference between people who don't want to pay attention to certain tasks (the vast majority) and those who cant (the minority that do have legitimate ADHD).
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    You're all wrong wrt. the scientific consensus :). The current consensus is that the ability to concentrate for longer periods on all the bullshit our modern lives are throwing at us is a normally distributed trait in the population, and ADHD is an arbitrary cutoff on that distribution. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16090523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16090523 for details.
    - 9y ago

whiddershins 9y ago

Huh. As someone with diagnosed ADHD and who has (in the past) taken appropriate medication, I still thought the advice rang true. How you conceptualize your identity is a huge factor in addressing behavior pattern ambivalence. For me it somehow dovetails perfectly with a neurochemistry explanation because there's no bright line separating this stuff.

adrusi 9y ago
I want to unilaterally echo this. As a kid I coped with my inability to complete school assignments on time by not identifying with success in school. This reinforced my existing faults. Learning to crush that coping mechanism out of existence was one of the best things that ever happened to me.

mynameishere 9y ago

Just in case it's not clear, "Sloth" and the author of the column are the same person.