5 ms·

> While we're on this subject, wide spacing between sentence-ending periods and the next sentence is the Right Way (tm). This convention started with typewrite

> While we're on this subject, wide spacing between sentence-ending periods and the next sentence is the Right Way (tm). This convention started with typewriters, and typesetters (e.g. my parents) will tell you that it is only considered correct in monospace fonts. This is also why HTML takes the liberty of reducing whitespace down to a single space character unless you go out of your way to use an  .

gnicholas 9y ago
But what of sentences that end with an abbreviation that ends in a period, like "U.S."? If it's just one space after a period, it's impossible to know that the sentence has ended? I realize in books or published articles this can be typeset in a smart way to make it distinguishable, but what about in ordinary writing?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cryptonector 9y ago
  Exactly. "I live in the U.S. I am happy." requires a bit more cognitive work to parse if spaces after sentence-ending periods are not wider. EDIT: For completeness, here is that same text with an extra space: "I live in the U.S. I am happy." -- see how much easier that is to read? Sure, it's not that big a deal, but it's definitely kind to the reader.
  - function_seven 9y ago
    Regarding your edit, it appears exactly the same :(. The browser collapses whitespace. I'm not sure if HN's comment system will allow you to double-space after a period, other than in a <pre> block: I live in the U.S. I am happy. I live in the U.S. I am happy.
    - cryptonector 9y ago
      Ay, thanks.
  - angelsl 9y ago
    Your double space was collapsed by the browser.
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    British: I don't live in the US. I am happy. Full stops aren't generally used in abbreviations here, Mx Cryptonector. Though there's a more recent trend to write "Nato" rather than NATO, which annoys me for the inconsistency that arises. Plenty of people pronounce VAT as one word, or PAYE, but these are usually left in capitals.
    - dmurray 9y ago
      Nato (but VAT) has been preferred by the Guardian style guide [0] for a long time. I've never understood it. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a
      - auxbuss 9y ago
        The Guardian also does eg and ie, which, equally, I've never understood.
    - cryptonector 9y ago
      As Churchill said, we're two cultures separated by a common language.
cryptonector 9y ago
Typesetters are wrong then.
Dylan16807 9y ago
> typesetters (e.g. my parents) will tell you that it is only considered correct in monospace fonts People like to say that but it's never been explained to my satisfaction. Spaces are twice as wide in a monospace font. Why would you use more spaces when and only when you have a longer space?
- alister 9y ago
  > Why would you use more spaces when and only when you have a longer space? I've also wondered this. Referring to this mock-up[1], I have the same monospace text with single vs double spaces after sentences, and proportional font with single vs double. The usual argument is that #2 is better than #1 (for mono), but #3 is better than #4 (for proportional). It feels like an inconsistency in the preference, and (as you pointed out) the reasoning doesn't make sense. [1] https://imgur.com/a/nozuw https://imgur.com/a/nozuw
anjbe 9y ago
In TeX, inter‐sentence spaces are visibly wider than normal spaces, including those that come after abbreviations. And when justifying text, they stretch faster than spaces between words.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> This convention started with typewriters No, an em-width space between sentences with either half-em or third-em width space between words was typesettig convention for a long time before typewriters, and is where the triple (later double) spacing in typewritten manuscript convention came from. Typesetting convention evolved to narrower and eventually mostly settled on equal-to-interword spacing after that typewriter convention evolved from earlier typesetting convention.
WovenTales 9y ago
There's an article I keep in my bookmarks for times like this: http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=324 http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=324 In short, wider sentence spacing goes back to the first English standards of the eighteenth century – including the first nine editions of the Chicago Manual of Style, and even the tenth still had it as an en-space – and only really started falling out of favour in the twenties. Typewriters had limited effect, but the automated typesetters that suceeded them were actually what killed it off, to simplify the programming. I typically do still type a single space, but I take full advantage of my preferred TeX flavour's (ConTeXt) automatic conversion to wider spaces. One successful, post-education convert here!

gnicholas 9y ago

But what of sentences that end with an abbreviation that ends in a period, like "U.S."? If it's just one space after a period, it's impossible to know that the sentence has ended? I realize in books or published articles this can be typeset in a smart way to make it distinguishable, but what about in ordinary writing?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cryptonector 9y ago
Exactly. "I live in the U.S. I am happy." requires a bit more cognitive work to parse if spaces after sentence-ending periods are not wider. EDIT: For completeness, here is that same text with an extra space: "I live in the U.S. I am happy." -- see how much easier that is to read? Sure, it's not that big a deal, but it's definitely kind to the reader.
- function_seven 9y ago
  Regarding your edit, it appears exactly the same :(. The browser collapses whitespace. I'm not sure if HN's comment system will allow you to double-space after a period, other than in a <pre> block: I live in the U.S. I am happy. I live in the U.S. I am happy.
  - cryptonector 9y ago
    Ay, thanks.
- angelsl 9y ago
  Your double space was collapsed by the browser.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  British: I don't live in the US. I am happy. Full stops aren't generally used in abbreviations here, Mx Cryptonector. Though there's a more recent trend to write "Nato" rather than NATO, which annoys me for the inconsistency that arises. Plenty of people pronounce VAT as one word, or PAYE, but these are usually left in capitals.
  - dmurray 9y ago
    Nato (but VAT) has been preferred by the Guardian style guide [0] for a long time. I've never understood it. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a
    - auxbuss 9y ago
      The Guardian also does eg and ie, which, equally, I've never understood.
  - cryptonector 9y ago
    As Churchill said, we're two cultures separated by a common language.

cryptonector 9y ago

Typesetters are wrong then.

Dylan16807 9y ago

> typesetters (e.g. my parents) will tell you that it is only considered correct in monospace fonts People like to say that but it's never been explained to my satisfaction. Spaces are twice as wide in a monospace font. Why would you use more spaces when and only when you have a longer space?

alister 9y ago
> Why would you use more spaces when and only when you have a longer space? I've also wondered this. Referring to this mock-up[1], I have the same monospace text with single vs double spaces after sentences, and proportional font with single vs double. The usual argument is that #2 is better than #1 (for mono), but #3 is better than #4 (for proportional). It feels like an inconsistency in the preference, and (as you pointed out) the reasoning doesn't make sense. [1] https://imgur.com/a/nozuw https://imgur.com/a/nozuw

anjbe 9y ago

In TeX, inter‐sentence spaces are visibly wider than normal spaces, including those that come after abbreviations. And when justifying text, they stretch faster than spaces between words.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> This convention started with typewriters No, an em-width space between sentences with either half-em or third-em width space between words was typesettig convention for a long time before typewriters, and is where the triple (later double) spacing in typewritten manuscript convention came from. Typesetting convention evolved to narrower and eventually mostly settled on equal-to-interword spacing after that typewriter convention evolved from earlier typesetting convention.

WovenTales 9y ago

There's an article I keep in my bookmarks for times like this: http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=324 http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=324 In short, wider sentence spacing goes back to the first English standards of the eighteenth century – including the first nine editions of the Chicago Manual of Style, and even the tenth still had it as an en-space – and only really started falling out of favour in the twenties. Typewriters had limited effect, but the automated typesetters that suceeded them were actually what killed it off, to simplify the programming. I typically do still type a single space, but I take full advantage of my preferred TeX flavour's (ConTeXt) automatic conversion to wider spaces. One successful, post-education convert here!