10 ms·

Increased amygdala responses after psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression

184 points by MrJagil 9y ago

insickness 9y ago
On a related topic, a friend of mine with treatment-resistant depression has been undergoing ketamine treatments from a doctor. He says there isn't a dramatic improvement but it helps alleviate catastrophic thinking. The hour-long treatments themselves are relaxing, he says, almost like a trip to a spa. The sessions are expensive, even when partially covered by insurance.
- make3 9y ago
  does he do cbt? does he do regular light cardiovascular exercise? does he do mindfulness mediation? all of this has proven effectiveness. sure, try ketamin, but also try the stuff that's known to work
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - WalterSear 9y ago
    Not for treatment resistant depression.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
brndnmtthws 9y ago
Can someone tl;dr this without all the medical jargon?
- code_duck 9y ago
  They are comparing the effectiveness of SSRIs and psilocybin on depression by analyzing brain activity and the response to faces with different emotions (both agents work on serotonin receptors). Their conclusion is that while SSRIs lessens reaction to negative emotions, while psilocybin helps people think through their reactions. They conclude “Psilocybin represents a novel intervention for major depression that appears to be safe, rapid and potentially enduring in its antidepressant action.”
- log_base_login 9y ago
  The last sentence of the abstract does a good job of this: >"Based on the present results, we propose that psilocybin with psychological support is a treatment approach that potentially revives emotional responsiveness in depression, enabling patients to reconnect with their emotions." This hypothesis was borne out in the data produced by the experiment. Essentially, they were able to increase empathy in their patients which enabled the patients to experience less isolation, thus relieving (some/most of) their depression.
  - strangegecko 9y ago
    Sounds like an alternative might then be loving kindness meditation which is basically a mental workout plan for opening up and feeling kindness to yourself, other people, and human experience in general.
- fapjacks 9y ago
  The abstract spells it out: "This suggests fundamental differences in these treatments’ therapeutic actions, with SSRIs mitigating negative emotions and psilocybin allowing patients to confront and work through them. Based on the present results, we propose that psilocybin with psychological support is a treatment approach that potentially revives emotional responsiveness in depression, enabling patients to reconnect with their emotions."
code_duck 9y ago
While researching microdosing last year I learned that psilocybin and SSRIs have similar mechanisms of action, so I’m very happy they did this research. Anti-depressants are very popular drugs, and psychedelics have been suppressed culturally and legally, much like marijuana. I think there is definitely a place for ‘medicinal mushrooms ‘. Like MDMA, it’s an amazing substance psychologically.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > psilocybin and SSRIs have similar mechanisms of action This is incorrect. An SSRI is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor[1]. It works through decreasing the reuptake of serotonin from the synaptic cleft back into the presynaptic cell, effectively increasing utilization of existing serotonin. It has limited short-term psychoactive side-effects compared to psilocybin, which is mostly a powerful agonist of certain serotonin receptors and can have considerable psychoactive effects[2]. You can't really "trip" from an antidepressant, but you definitely can from psilocybin. Also just so you know, while MDMA has promise in certain psychological issues, it is also neurotoxic when used regularly and can cause some severe long-term problems[3]. It's an interesting drug for sure, but just claiming it's "amazing" is being reductionist. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_i... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Pharmacology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Pharmacology [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
  - code_duck 9y ago
    Similar as in 'act on serotonin', which is close enough for me and most people. Like the article says, they actually have somewhat of an opposite mechanism. Thanks for the details. Your analysis of SSRIs is detailed, but not of psilocybin - saying they make you 'trip' and that's all is a bit reductionist too, wouldn't you say? They do have lasting psychological effects beyond that, and thankfully research such as this is elucidating what those effects are in detail. By 'amazing', I'm referring to how many researchers, users and therapists refer to properties of, the potential of, and experiences with MDMA, not my own perception, usage or beliefs. I agree that something called 'methylene dioxy methamphetamine' is a serious drug that should be only used under the direction of a professional. As far as safety of long term effects and neurotoxicity, I'd question that about many current, legal prescription drugs such as SSRIs.
brudgers 9y ago
evidence indicates that psilocybin with psychological support may be effective for treating depression On its own, psychological support may be effective for treating depression. If you're depressed, a reasonable starting point for clinical treatment is clinical treatment. The abstract does not suggest that self-medication with magic mushrooms may be effective. Deciding to consume psilocybin on one's own is an orthogonal decision and the study might provide a new rationalization for the practice. But it's just a rationalization for shrooming outside of a clinical setting.
- tzahola 9y ago
  .
  - shlant 9y ago
    Please don't fill this thread with Reddit quality responses
- amelius 9y ago
  I think the main issue is that currently clinical treatment requires years of suffering, while a mushroom may solve the problem in a few weeks.
  - brudgers 9y ago
    Contemporary clinical practice tends toward conservation of everyone's time. The days of weekly appointments with a Freudian analyst are largely past, if they ever were for anyone other than well off clients who could afford such things. Contemporary clinical practice for treating depression tends toward prescriptions for clinically tested anti-depressants. Many of the mild main stream anti-depressants have moderately positive effects quickly for many people (though not all of them and not for everyone). Don't get me wrong, if you want to eat mushrooms it's fine by me. Just be clear that the abstract does not indicate clear clinical efficacy in treating depression and the possible evidence it suggests is in conjunction with psychological support. It does not suggest evidence of efficacy as self medication outside of a clinical setting.
indescions_2018 9y ago
Joins other studies from NYU investigating psilocybin mitigation of anxiety in advanced stage cancer patients. As well as a comprehensive survey by psychiatrists at Johns Hopkins showing 84% of those who tripped describing the experience as somewhat beneficial: Survey study of challenging experiences after ingesting psilocybin mushrooms http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0269881116662634 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/026988111666263... As federal dollars may face a difficult path to providing the funding for psychedelic research. This represents an enormous opportunity for privately funded as well as citizen oriented science. Indeed, MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies was just gifted 111 BTC from two free thinking philanthropists as part of its Pinapple Fundraising campaign! https://www.maps.org/ https://www.maps.org/
- agumonkey 9y ago
  I wonder how such drugs can make patient take different treatment options for cancer. My uncle did his best after being diagnosed with terminal cancer, at times he wanted to try things but very often he ended up rejecting ideas.
- monktastic1 9y ago
  Just so people know, MAPS primarily funds MDMA studies. Psilocybin funding is coming largely from the Heffter Institute.
- SolaceQuantum 9y ago
  Are there any studies on psilocybin mushrooms on schizophrenia-spectrum people?
  - tpm 9y ago
    No and most likely there won't be. It is still thought that psychedelics can trigger or worsen schizophrenia in those people - it is certainly possible, though nobody knows - and all studies will try to play it on the safe side and exclude them. Remember these are still Schedule 1 illegal drugs, so anyone trying to get them rescheduled wants to avoid controversy.
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
Anecdotally, one-time use of LSD(which acts similarly to psilocybin, primarily through 5-ht2a agonism) set me on a path to self improvement. I had depression for years during my puberty, teens, and early adulthood. I contemplated suicide regularly and had a pessimistic outlook on life. I dropped out of college in my first semester despite taking and passing multiple AP classes in high school because I didn't see the point of college. Then I took a large dose of LSD once. It was a very unpleasant experience. The changes weren't immediate, but in the following months, my outlook started to change. I started caring about life again, quit smoking and started exercising, and went back to college. Now, I'm completely drug free, have a wife and a degree, and am optimistic for the future. I wouldn't recommend other people try it, because my experience made me understand why some people go insane from it. I believe, though, that it put me on a path of self-improvement, and should absolutely continue to be studied.
- psychedelicnope 9y ago
  Also anecdotally, I took a fairly large amount of magic mushrooms once, and it was an awful episode that left me with anxiety attacks for many months afterwards. I saw no life improvement from this experience, and regret having ever dabbled recreationally.
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    This is why I want more research, but don't necessarily recommend it. "Bad trips" are common enough and can cause a strong enough negative reaction to make its use very risky.
  - mpfundstein 9y ago
    i think the key take away in your story is to not take a 'fairly large amount' ... (without having experience, etc.)!
bertil 9y ago
This is all the more important that there are few medical options for depression: SSRIs are the commonly used ones.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  SSRIs are used to treat a different class of depression.
  - tpm 9y ago
    Actually no, the inclusion criteria for this study were major (unipolar) depression and no improvement despite two courses of antidepressants (6 weeks minimum each), I think this is exactly what SSRI are used for.
    - WalterSear 9y ago
      Actually no. SSRIs, and their more recent variants, would almost invariably comprise that first and second courses of treatments.
      - tpm 9y ago
        Which is exactly what I'm talking about, against your original claim that "SSRIs are used to treat a different class of depression" sorry if this wasn't clear enough from my post, English is not my first language.
        WalterSear 9y ago
        Except still not. It's not treatment resistant depression until the other stuff hasn't worked. Treatment resistant depression isn't a more exact diagnosis: it's an admission that the previous diagnosis was wrong, and the disease is a different one, with a different etiology and a different form of treatment - both pharmaceutical and from the standpoint of therapy.
jimnotgym 9y ago
This is fascinating as this is the plague of our generation. depression is such a debilitating condition, and in the UK mental health care has fallen to the level where it doesn't really exist outside of prescription medication. There was an earlier study in the UK [0] which showed similar effects, again on a small sample. The following interested me > A clinical trial, which took years and significant money to complete due to the stringent regulatory restrictions imposed around the class 1 drug This seems insane. Lots of other prescription drugs would be illegal for me to buy, why is this reserved for mushrooms that grow in our lawn? It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. I note that many people are concerned about the side effects of magic-mushrooms. Perhaps you could consider that weighed against the side effects of the Seroxat[1] which amongst other things can stop a man reaching orgasm, or stop you dreaming(!) for years after taking it, is addictive and clouds your judgment. It can turn you suicidal or homicidal. I wont bother to list any of the others and their side effects, but I know I would try the mushrooms first, and I would urge my family to do the same if they needed help. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/17/magic-mushrooms-lift-severe-depression-in-clinical-trial https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/17/magic-mushro... [1]https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jun/11/highereducation.medicalscience https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jun/11/highereducation.m...
- agumonkey 9y ago
  are you sure about the addictive nature ? http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm says no there are clear withdrawal symptoms (no one should drop this treatment without gradual dose lowering) but addiction seems the wrong word
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. Many of the antidepressant and psychoactive/psychedelic effects are caused by 5-ht2a receptor agonism, and many novel 5-ht2a agonists have been made[1], most of which could be patented. The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists
gt_ 9y ago
Despite being intensely skeptical of anything veering towards association as causation, I have always insisted that a psilocybin trip when I was 20 years old was overwhelming responsible for a series of achievements and positive changes in my life in the years following. My lack of words or explanation for this has left me embarrassed to talk about it. Seeing these studies is bringing up a lot of dormant curiosity.
- jrnichols 9y ago
  My anecdotal and totally non scientific experience about 6 months ago with psilocybin is similar to yours, i suspect. A positive trip completely changed my outlook on.. well, everything. It's almost as if I see everything in a different light. Instead of being pessimistic and negative about things (by things, I mean pretty much everything under the sun) I just feel hopeful and positive and thankful instead. I really cannot find enough words to describe how much better I have been feeling. How long will it last? I don't know. While it lasts, I have at least been dealing with things better. It really is hard to explain. But I think you might know how I feel.
- b6 9y ago
  > My lack of words or explanation for this I wouldn't feel bad about this at all. I'm comfortable that there are many very important things that can be understood but cannot be conveyed to others using language. You can tell someone the capital of France, but not what it was like when your child was born, maybe because one is a concept and the other is an experience. I've had a lot of indescribable but very valuable experiences too (LSD).
notadoc 9y ago
Nothing like a good mental colonic with a brutal dissolution of ego to increase that amygdala response, right?
- tasty_freeze 9y ago
  This is a reddit quality comment. On what basis do you justify classifying the treatment as brutal? Or that the dose was high enough that the test subjects underwent ego death? Were you just exaggerating for comic effect and didn't really have anything to add?
  - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
    have you done them? i would say its a pretty accurate description of my experience. every time ive done them, ive found aspects extremely uncomfortable, but by the end i almost feel a sense of accomplishment. i know people read comments like this and imagine an idiot who is easily swayed by bullshit, so ill offer what i thought of as the most tangible interesting things that comes from taking mushrooms: many things that happen automatically in your brain seem to stop when you take mushrooms. for instance, it was no longer obvious to me what time of day it was, or what day of the week. it was very interesting to experience this, because it had never been something id been without, and it had never even occurred to me as a thing that could not be obvious. so seeing that it was a process like anything else is very eye opening.
    - scottmf 9y ago
      That stripping-away of context is a common effect. I find it fascinating. It allows you to view things with fewer of your own biases and default thought patterns coloring your perception.
      - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
        yes. it made me see myself and emotions and existence in a much more carefree, simpler light. sounds bad, or sad maybe, but its great.
failrate 9y ago
If you would like to see psilocybin available for research and therapy and you live in California, you should be aware of an attempt to legalize it in this state: https://ballotpedia.org/California_Psilocybin_Mushroom_Decriminalization_Initiative_(2018) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Psilocybin_Mushroom_Decri...
TipVFL 9y ago
I can vouch for the antidepressant properties of psilocybin, as well as it's nearly miraculous efficacy at stopping cluster headaches. If any of you are unaware of cluster headaches, they are also called suicide headaches, because the pain is so great that many people just kill themselves. The pain level has few peers, it's been compared to amputation without anaesthetic. For me, the bulk of the sensation is of one of my eyes being crushed while a hot poker is run through it. The cluster part comes from the fact that they occur in clusters that can last weeks, months, or years. It is debilitating to know that at any moment you could suddenly, and with very little warning, start experiencing the worst pain of your life. I had panic attacks at the first hint of symptoms. During my last cluster I took mushrooms, and it completely eradicated them. The literature I read said it could stop them for a year, but it's been almost 4 years now and I'm still clear of them. I'd prefer to dose again for peace of mind, but mushrooms are illegal and hard to find. It was also very nice for my depression, I had an elevated mood for several months. I wish it was legal, it scares me a lot less than the actual antidepressant medications, and it's the only effective treatment for preventing cluster headaches.
- herbst 9y ago
  You can naturally find them in nearly any climate. Maybe worth a try
  - xpaulbettsx 9y ago
    You can also order the extremely similar yet legal chemical, 4-AcO-DMT
    - herbst 9y ago
      Illegal in most of europe (we banned analogs years ago when the legal drug thing boomed). I am generally not the biggest fan of psychodelic analogs, have had bad experience with some of them. There is a reason real shrooms, acid and DMT are still the king of the scene :) [not entirely true for LSD, as 1P-LSD and AL-LAD are virtually the same as LSD-25]
- 9y ago
Pica_soO 9y ago
Honestly, if there are diseases like this- im for a all in approach, every human being free to try whatever might stick. The thing is, we dont have that one type of humans. We have many - different Neuro-types, and what might be a salvation for one, might send another to a different hell altogether. I find this problematic not really addressed in most studies. Thus i take them with a grain of salt that is- find out first, via a independet third observer, whether you are a similar type of neuro-type to the one who recived the mircale cure. Last but not least: Be aware that some drugs might prevent negative experience testimony by rendering the person unable to testify. If you are send over the edge and become a schizophrenic living in a cardboard box- you are unlikely to ever testify against the remedy you took.

184 points by MrJagil 9y ago

On a related topic, a friend of mine with treatment-resistant depression has been undergoing ketamine treatments from a doctor. He says there isn't a dramatic improvement but it helps alleviate catastrophic thinking. The hour-long treatments themselves are relaxing, he says, almost like a trip to a spa. The sessions are expensive, even when partially covered by insurance.

make3 9y ago
does he do cbt? does he do regular light cardiovascular exercise? does he do mindfulness mediation? all of this has proven effectiveness. sure, try ketamin, but also try the stuff that's known to work
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- WalterSear 9y ago
  Not for treatment resistant depression.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

brndnmtthws 9y ago

Can someone tl;dr this without all the medical jargon?

code_duck 9y ago
They are comparing the effectiveness of SSRIs and psilocybin on depression by analyzing brain activity and the response to faces with different emotions (both agents work on serotonin receptors). Their conclusion is that while SSRIs lessens reaction to negative emotions, while psilocybin helps people think through their reactions. They conclude “Psilocybin represents a novel intervention for major depression that appears to be safe, rapid and potentially enduring in its antidepressant action.”
log_base_login 9y ago
The last sentence of the abstract does a good job of this: >"Based on the present results, we propose that psilocybin with psychological support is a treatment approach that potentially revives emotional responsiveness in depression, enabling patients to reconnect with their emotions." This hypothesis was borne out in the data produced by the experiment. Essentially, they were able to increase empathy in their patients which enabled the patients to experience less isolation, thus relieving (some/most of) their depression.
- strangegecko 9y ago
  Sounds like an alternative might then be loving kindness meditation which is basically a mental workout plan for opening up and feeling kindness to yourself, other people, and human experience in general.
fapjacks 9y ago
The abstract spells it out: "This suggests fundamental differences in these treatments’ therapeutic actions, with SSRIs mitigating negative emotions and psilocybin allowing patients to confront and work through them. Based on the present results, we propose that psilocybin with psychological support is a treatment approach that potentially revives emotional responsiveness in depression, enabling patients to reconnect with their emotions."

code_duck 9y ago

While researching microdosing last year I learned that psilocybin and SSRIs have similar mechanisms of action, so I’m very happy they did this research. Anti-depressants are very popular drugs, and psychedelics have been suppressed culturally and legally, much like marijuana. I think there is definitely a place for ‘medicinal mushrooms ‘. Like MDMA, it’s an amazing substance psychologically.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> psilocybin and SSRIs have similar mechanisms of action This is incorrect. An SSRI is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor[1]. It works through decreasing the reuptake of serotonin from the synaptic cleft back into the presynaptic cell, effectively increasing utilization of existing serotonin. It has limited short-term psychoactive side-effects compared to psilocybin, which is mostly a powerful agonist of certain serotonin receptors and can have considerable psychoactive effects[2]. You can't really "trip" from an antidepressant, but you definitely can from psilocybin. Also just so you know, while MDMA has promise in certain psychological issues, it is also neurotoxic when used regularly and can cause some severe long-term problems[3]. It's an interesting drug for sure, but just claiming it's "amazing" is being reductionist. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_i... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Pharmacology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Pharmacology [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
- code_duck 9y ago
  Similar as in 'act on serotonin', which is close enough for me and most people. Like the article says, they actually have somewhat of an opposite mechanism. Thanks for the details. Your analysis of SSRIs is detailed, but not of psilocybin - saying they make you 'trip' and that's all is a bit reductionist too, wouldn't you say? They do have lasting psychological effects beyond that, and thankfully research such as this is elucidating what those effects are in detail. By 'amazing', I'm referring to how many researchers, users and therapists refer to properties of, the potential of, and experiences with MDMA, not my own perception, usage or beliefs. I agree that something called 'methylene dioxy methamphetamine' is a serious drug that should be only used under the direction of a professional. As far as safety of long term effects and neurotoxicity, I'd question that about many current, legal prescription drugs such as SSRIs.

brudgers 9y ago

evidence indicates that psilocybin with psychological support may be effective for treating depression On its own, psychological support may be effective for treating depression. If you're depressed, a reasonable starting point for clinical treatment is clinical treatment. The abstract does not suggest that self-medication with magic mushrooms may be effective. Deciding to consume psilocybin on one's own is an orthogonal decision and the study might provide a new rationalization for the practice. But it's just a rationalization for shrooming outside of a clinical setting.

tzahola 9y ago
.
- shlant 9y ago
  Please don't fill this thread with Reddit quality responses
amelius 9y ago
I think the main issue is that currently clinical treatment requires years of suffering, while a mushroom may solve the problem in a few weeks.
- brudgers 9y ago
  Contemporary clinical practice tends toward conservation of everyone's time. The days of weekly appointments with a Freudian analyst are largely past, if they ever were for anyone other than well off clients who could afford such things. Contemporary clinical practice for treating depression tends toward prescriptions for clinically tested anti-depressants. Many of the mild main stream anti-depressants have moderately positive effects quickly for many people (though not all of them and not for everyone). Don't get me wrong, if you want to eat mushrooms it's fine by me. Just be clear that the abstract does not indicate clear clinical efficacy in treating depression and the possible evidence it suggests is in conjunction with psychological support. It does not suggest evidence of efficacy as self medication outside of a clinical setting.

indescions_2018 9y ago

Joins other studies from NYU investigating psilocybin mitigation of anxiety in advanced stage cancer patients. As well as a comprehensive survey by psychiatrists at Johns Hopkins showing 84% of those who tripped describing the experience as somewhat beneficial: Survey study of challenging experiences after ingesting psilocybin mushrooms http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0269881116662634 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/026988111666263... As federal dollars may face a difficult path to providing the funding for psychedelic research. This represents an enormous opportunity for privately funded as well as citizen oriented science. Indeed, MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies was just gifted 111 BTC from two free thinking philanthropists as part of its Pinapple Fundraising campaign! https://www.maps.org/ https://www.maps.org/

agumonkey 9y ago
I wonder how such drugs can make patient take different treatment options for cancer. My uncle did his best after being diagnosed with terminal cancer, at times he wanted to try things but very often he ended up rejecting ideas.
monktastic1 9y ago
Just so people know, MAPS primarily funds MDMA studies. Psilocybin funding is coming largely from the Heffter Institute.
SolaceQuantum 9y ago
Are there any studies on psilocybin mushrooms on schizophrenia-spectrum people?
- tpm 9y ago
  No and most likely there won't be. It is still thought that psychedelics can trigger or worsen schizophrenia in those people - it is certainly possible, though nobody knows - and all studies will try to play it on the safe side and exclude them. Remember these are still Schedule 1 illegal drugs, so anyone trying to get them rescheduled wants to avoid controversy.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago

Anecdotally, one-time use of LSD(which acts similarly to psilocybin, primarily through 5-ht2a agonism) set me on a path to self improvement. I had depression for years during my puberty, teens, and early adulthood. I contemplated suicide regularly and had a pessimistic outlook on life. I dropped out of college in my first semester despite taking and passing multiple AP classes in high school because I didn't see the point of college. Then I took a large dose of LSD once. It was a very unpleasant experience. The changes weren't immediate, but in the following months, my outlook started to change. I started caring about life again, quit smoking and started exercising, and went back to college. Now, I'm completely drug free, have a wife and a degree, and am optimistic for the future. I wouldn't recommend other people try it, because my experience made me understand why some people go insane from it. I believe, though, that it put me on a path of self-improvement, and should absolutely continue to be studied.

psychedelicnope 9y ago
Also anecdotally, I took a fairly large amount of magic mushrooms once, and it was an awful episode that left me with anxiety attacks for many months afterwards. I saw no life improvement from this experience, and regret having ever dabbled recreationally.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  This is why I want more research, but don't necessarily recommend it. "Bad trips" are common enough and can cause a strong enough negative reaction to make its use very risky.
- mpfundstein 9y ago
  i think the key take away in your story is to not take a 'fairly large amount' ... (without having experience, etc.)!

bertil 9y ago

This is all the more important that there are few medical options for depression: SSRIs are the commonly used ones.

WalterSear 9y ago
SSRIs are used to treat a different class of depression.
- tpm 9y ago
  Actually no, the inclusion criteria for this study were major (unipolar) depression and no improvement despite two courses of antidepressants (6 weeks minimum each), I think this is exactly what SSRI are used for.
  - WalterSear 9y ago
    Actually no. SSRIs, and their more recent variants, would almost invariably comprise that first and second courses of treatments.
    - tpm 9y ago
      Which is exactly what I'm talking about, against your original claim that "SSRIs are used to treat a different class of depression" sorry if this wasn't clear enough from my post, English is not my first language.
      - WalterSear 9y ago
        Except still not. It's not treatment resistant depression until the other stuff hasn't worked. Treatment resistant depression isn't a more exact diagnosis: it's an admission that the previous diagnosis was wrong, and the disease is a different one, with a different etiology and a different form of treatment - both pharmaceutical and from the standpoint of therapy.

jimnotgym 9y ago

This is fascinating as this is the plague of our generation. depression is such a debilitating condition, and in the UK mental health care has fallen to the level where it doesn't really exist outside of prescription medication. There was an earlier study in the UK [0] which showed similar effects, again on a small sample. The following interested me > A clinical trial, which took years and significant money to complete due to the stringent regulatory restrictions imposed around the class 1 drug This seems insane. Lots of other prescription drugs would be illegal for me to buy, why is this reserved for mushrooms that grow in our lawn? It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. I note that many people are concerned about the side effects of magic-mushrooms. Perhaps you could consider that weighed against the side effects of the Seroxat[1] which amongst other things can stop a man reaching orgasm, or stop you dreaming(!) for years after taking it, is addictive and clouds your judgment. It can turn you suicidal or homicidal. I wont bother to list any of the others and their side effects, but I know I would try the mushrooms first, and I would urge my family to do the same if they needed help. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/17/magic-mushrooms-lift-severe-depression-in-clinical-trial https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/17/magic-mushro... [1]https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jun/11/highereducation.medicalscience https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jun/11/highereducation.m...

agumonkey 9y ago
are you sure about the addictive nature ? http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm http://www.depression-guide.com/seroxat.htm says no there are clear withdrawal symptoms (no one should drop this treatment without gradual dose lowering) but addiction seems the wrong word
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> It makes me wonder if the real resistance to this research is that an unmodified mushroom medicine would not be patentable, and it would be financially catastrophic to big pharma if people stopped taking their medication and grew their own more effective ones. Many of the antidepressant and psychoactive/psychedelic effects are caused by 5-ht2a receptor agonism, and many novel 5-ht2a agonists have been made[1], most of which could be patented. The issue is abuse potential. Most of these drugs can be used to "trip," or have a psychedelic experience, meaning it would likely be made illegal very quickly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor#Agonists

gt_ 9y ago

Despite being intensely skeptical of anything veering towards association as causation, I have always insisted that a psilocybin trip when I was 20 years old was overwhelming responsible for a series of achievements and positive changes in my life in the years following. My lack of words or explanation for this has left me embarrassed to talk about it. Seeing these studies is bringing up a lot of dormant curiosity.

jrnichols 9y ago
My anecdotal and totally non scientific experience about 6 months ago with psilocybin is similar to yours, i suspect. A positive trip completely changed my outlook on.. well, everything. It's almost as if I see everything in a different light. Instead of being pessimistic and negative about things (by things, I mean pretty much everything under the sun) I just feel hopeful and positive and thankful instead. I really cannot find enough words to describe how much better I have been feeling. How long will it last? I don't know. While it lasts, I have at least been dealing with things better. It really is hard to explain. But I think you might know how I feel.
b6 9y ago
> My lack of words or explanation for this I wouldn't feel bad about this at all. I'm comfortable that there are many very important things that can be understood but cannot be conveyed to others using language. You can tell someone the capital of France, but not what it was like when your child was born, maybe because one is a concept and the other is an experience. I've had a lot of indescribable but very valuable experiences too (LSD).

notadoc 9y ago

Nothing like a good mental colonic with a brutal dissolution of ego to increase that amygdala response, right?

tasty_freeze 9y ago
This is a reddit quality comment. On what basis do you justify classifying the treatment as brutal? Or that the dose was high enough that the test subjects underwent ego death? Were you just exaggerating for comic effect and didn't really have anything to add?
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  have you done them? i would say its a pretty accurate description of my experience. every time ive done them, ive found aspects extremely uncomfortable, but by the end i almost feel a sense of accomplishment. i know people read comments like this and imagine an idiot who is easily swayed by bullshit, so ill offer what i thought of as the most tangible interesting things that comes from taking mushrooms: many things that happen automatically in your brain seem to stop when you take mushrooms. for instance, it was no longer obvious to me what time of day it was, or what day of the week. it was very interesting to experience this, because it had never been something id been without, and it had never even occurred to me as a thing that could not be obvious. so seeing that it was a process like anything else is very eye opening.
  - scottmf 9y ago
    That stripping-away of context is a common effect. I find it fascinating. It allows you to view things with fewer of your own biases and default thought patterns coloring your perception.
    - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
      yes. it made me see myself and emotions and existence in a much more carefree, simpler light. sounds bad, or sad maybe, but its great.

failrate 9y ago

If you would like to see psilocybin available for research and therapy and you live in California, you should be aware of an attempt to legalize it in this state: https://ballotpedia.org/California_Psilocybin_Mushroom_Decriminalization_Initiative_(2018) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Psilocybin_Mushroom_Decri...

TipVFL 9y ago

I can vouch for the antidepressant properties of psilocybin, as well as it's nearly miraculous efficacy at stopping cluster headaches. If any of you are unaware of cluster headaches, they are also called suicide headaches, because the pain is so great that many people just kill themselves. The pain level has few peers, it's been compared to amputation without anaesthetic. For me, the bulk of the sensation is of one of my eyes being crushed while a hot poker is run through it. The cluster part comes from the fact that they occur in clusters that can last weeks, months, or years. It is debilitating to know that at any moment you could suddenly, and with very little warning, start experiencing the worst pain of your life. I had panic attacks at the first hint of symptoms. During my last cluster I took mushrooms, and it completely eradicated them. The literature I read said it could stop them for a year, but it's been almost 4 years now and I'm still clear of them. I'd prefer to dose again for peace of mind, but mushrooms are illegal and hard to find. It was also very nice for my depression, I had an elevated mood for several months. I wish it was legal, it scares me a lot less than the actual antidepressant medications, and it's the only effective treatment for preventing cluster headaches.

herbst 9y ago
You can naturally find them in nearly any climate. Maybe worth a try
- xpaulbettsx 9y ago
  You can also order the extremely similar yet legal chemical, 4-AcO-DMT
  - herbst 9y ago
    Illegal in most of europe (we banned analogs years ago when the legal drug thing boomed). I am generally not the biggest fan of psychodelic analogs, have had bad experience with some of them. There is a reason real shrooms, acid and DMT are still the king of the scene :) [not entirely true for LSD, as 1P-LSD and AL-LAD are virtually the same as LSD-25]
9y ago

Pica_soO 9y ago

Honestly, if there are diseases like this- im for a all in approach, every human being free to try whatever might stick. The thing is, we dont have that one type of humans. We have many - different Neuro-types, and what might be a salvation for one, might send another to a different hell altogether. I find this problematic not really addressed in most studies. Thus i take them with a grain of salt that is- find out first, via a independet third observer, whether you are a similar type of neuro-type to the one who recived the mircale cure. Last but not least: Be aware that some drugs might prevent negative experience testimony by rendering the person unable to testify. If you are send over the edge and become a schizophrenic living in a cardboard box- you are unlikely to ever testify against the remedy you took.