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China offers 10-year visas to 'high end talent'

35 points by dberhane 9y ago

TokyoKid 9y ago
It is tempting.
pimmen 9y ago
I feel bad about paying taxes to a one party dictatorship. If you qualify for this visa you have lots of opportunities in life to change stuff for the better and turning this visa down is one of them.
robk 9y ago
Uk us a better visa imo
jimnotgym 9y ago
> Visa holders will be allowed to remain in the country for up to 180 days at a time So Nobel prize winning academics can visit China. I'm rather less excited by that than when I read the headline
- restuijs 9y ago
  The policy is repugnant on multiple levels.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  Anyone living in the West who looks down on certain US politicians for their anti-immigrant sentiments but is fine with China's state enforced ethnic nationalism might want to stop and think deeply as to why. It's essentially impossible for a Westerner to gain anything more than a temporary visa, even if they marry a Chinese citizen.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    Do you think living in the West...is fine with China's state enforced ethnic nationalism is a big group of people?
    - mc32 9y ago
      I'll just point you to the Assange phenomenon. When Assange was an agent (provided a platform) bringing light to the consequences of W's and Obama's wars in the middle east, he was a hero. Then, one day he also became conduit to information which lead to the political death of an anointed successor to the Obama presidency and he became a traitor, a misogynist, an enemy most foul -a Russian agent, in their eyes. So, yeah. Many people like China when it's expedient, and will forgive those little sins. You know balance against hegemony, economic rival, bearers of Mao's torch, the divinity of marginalized peasants who stick it to urban elites, etc.
      - jimnotgym 9y ago
        > Then, one day he also became conduit to information which lead to the political death of an anointed successor to the Obama presidency and he became a traitor, a misogynist, an enemy most foul. I think Assange was painted as a mysogynist in the global press right back in 2010 when details of his extradition request for a suspected rape came out. That was early in the Obama administration. I see your point but I think the chronology is off. Perhaps those people that are closer to Assange and know him better would know if he should have been criticised as a mysogynist even earlier? I think a better way to criticise China is to review the recent release of documents about Tiananmen Square. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-42465516 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-42465516
      - maxerickson 9y ago
        I don't really get your example. There were plenty of people that were critical of Assange well before 2016 and plenty of people that continue to praise him today. So I have trouble with Julian->Large numbers of China apologists, it just isn't very sound logic.
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > There were plenty of people that were critical of Assange well before 2016 and plenty of people that continue to praise him today. A lot for the people that continue to praise him today are people that were critical of him before 2016 (and vice versa.)
  - baursak 9y ago
    > Anyone living in the West who looks down on certain US politicians for their anti-immigrant sentiments but is fine with China's state enforced ethnic nationalism ... is probably not a significant amount of people
provost 9y ago
Looked into the taxes: for regular employees there are 7 brackets. Anything over 80,000RMB (12320 US Dollar) is taxed at 45%. Though it looks like if your income is derived by a company outside China, and you live there for >=1 and <= 5 years, you are exempted from taxes. Freelancers have 3 levels (between 20% to 40%). [1] https://www.ecovis.com/focus-china/individual-income-tax-iit-china-ground-rules/ https://www.ecovis.com/focus-china/individual-income-tax-iit...
- pcr0 9y ago
  Important to note that those figures are for monthly income, not yearly.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Chinese taxes are a bit higher than the states, but note that is an all inclusive rate (federal, local). There are also many ways to get some income tax free for foreigners via special exemption (say around 10%) so it is only a bit more than USA taxes in the end (I filed the foreign tax credit form way too many times so have done the math a lot).
  - lowpro 9y ago
    This is actually lower than the US in a few places, including California where the top bracket including local, state, and federal taxes can go up to 52%. On mobile so don't have a reference on me.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Sure, though coming from Washington state that wasn’t much solace. Even without state taxes, it some how worked out that I was fairly even with my USA federal tax liability, probably because the deductions are different in china.
mtgx 9y ago
Also 10 years prison for anyone that criticizes the government. Decisions, decisions.
inDigiNeous 9y ago
Hearing all the negative stuff about China recently, like the online censorship, dictatorship, stories about people not caring about human life, like hearing it's common that if you accidentally drive over people, many will backup to finish the job so they wont' have to pay the insurance for rest of the life and seeings stories like babies on the streets and nobody caring, why would anyone want to work in China? Are these stories true, or just negative propaganda to threaten the great republic of China ? Anybody care to share experiences living there ?
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  We probably hear mostly about the sensationally negative things the most because they drive clicks. The same could be said about all the negative news coming out of the US. Why would anyone want to move there? And yet they do, and many thrive. I'm sure China is thriving, despite its problems.
  - westiseast 9y ago
    The problem is best illustrated with things like road deaths. If you look at road deaths for China, it’s something like 20 per 100k people per year vs maybe 2-3 in the UK. What that means is, statistically China is 8-10 times “worse” than the UK. Does it mean you’re going to be seeing car crashes everywhere all the time? No. Does it mean China’s road safety is much worse? Yes. Things are much worse in China in a variety of meaningful respects. Does that mean it’s impossible to live there? Not at all.
    - sh4z 9y ago
      If we instead go onto crime; If you look at violent crime we have 6 times more robberies, 4 times more murders and 18 times more gun crime in the USA compare to China (per capita) Does it mean you're going to be seeing people getting shot everywhere all the time? No. Does it mean general safety in the US is much worse? Yes. Things are much worse in USA in a variety of meaningful respects. Does that mean it's impossible to live there? Not at all. Well, if you can stand having Trump as the president of the country you live in.
thisisit 9y ago
How does this work along with their plan to limit city population? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/26/chinas-shanghai-sets-population-25-million--big-city-disease https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/26/chinas-shangha...
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  There are so few foreigners in China relative to locals that they barely budge any population statistics.
jijji 9y ago
What they don't tell you is that two of those ten years will be spent in a secret gulag for writing a wechat private message to your friend about how you dont like the great firewall of china. Thanks, but I'll pass.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  You could also just... not send WeChat private messages to your friend about how you don't like the great firewall of China. I mean, I don't support the Firewall in the slightest, but I think the kind person who wants to send messages like that is exactly who they want to keep out by keeping brutal punishments for dissident behavior. I've always felt if you go to a country you should respect it's laws, and if you feel you'll be unable to respect it's laws due to moral conflict you shouldn't go to the country. And it's not like you should want to benefit from a country (or let a country benefit from you!) that has laws you're so opposed to that you'd be willing to risk severe punishment to comment on them...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- mirajshah 9y ago
  Inflammatory troll commenter spotted...
  - jijji 9y ago
    It's nice to get a 10-year visa, but having to look over your shoulder every day in fear that the government is going to kidnap you for some random thing you said privately to your friend, that is a real concern. Tell the thousands of people who sit in prison cells for doing just that they are trolls.
Proven 9y ago
They might be able to attract high end talent from low end countries.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
I’m not sure what the big deal is here, they have offered something like this for awhile, and in my experience, is nearly impossible to obtain unless you’ve won a Nobel (and not the peace kind). Most of us were just on work visas that were renewed yearly, the lucky ones got two year visas. Someday that might change, but I’m not sure how it would make things much better.
ChrisBland 9y ago
I think I'll pass, too many restrictions and gotchas. This is why we left Hong Kong after the handoff in 96.
jdlyga 9y ago
I have a 10 year visa to China from the United States. It's just a tourist visa though. I think it's a special agreement between the two countries.
- adamson 9y ago
  You can only stay for ninety days at a time on a tourist visa (the point of which is to prevent you from taking a job and sticking around)
znpy 9y ago
Ten-year-visa really sounds like "come and do your things, but then go away, we don't really want you"
nolo 9y ago
I received a 10 year visa and would certainly not call myself Nobel level. Fairly straightforward process, but you do need to provide quite a few personal details

35 points by dberhane 9y ago

It is tempting.

I feel bad about paying taxes to a one party dictatorship. If you qualify for this visa you have lots of opportunities in life to change stuff for the better and turning this visa down is one of them.

robk 9y ago

Uk us a better visa imo

jimnotgym 9y ago

> Visa holders will be allowed to remain in the country for up to 180 days at a time So Nobel prize winning academics can visit China. I'm rather less excited by that than when I read the headline

restuijs 9y ago
The policy is repugnant on multiple levels.
ghostcluster 9y ago
Anyone living in the West who looks down on certain US politicians for their anti-immigrant sentiments but is fine with China's state enforced ethnic nationalism might want to stop and think deeply as to why. It's essentially impossible for a Westerner to gain anything more than a temporary visa, even if they marry a Chinese citizen.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Do you think living in the West...is fine with China's state enforced ethnic nationalism is a big group of people?
  - mc32 9y ago
    I'll just point you to the Assange phenomenon. When Assange was an agent (provided a platform) bringing light to the consequences of W's and Obama's wars in the middle east, he was a hero. Then, one day he also became conduit to information which lead to the political death of an anointed successor to the Obama presidency and he became a traitor, a misogynist, an enemy most foul -a Russian agent, in their eyes. So, yeah. Many people like China when it's expedient, and will forgive those little sins. You know balance against hegemony, economic rival, bearers of Mao's torch, the divinity of marginalized peasants who stick it to urban elites, etc.
    - jimnotgym 9y ago
      > Then, one day he also became conduit to information which lead to the political death of an anointed successor to the Obama presidency and he became a traitor, a misogynist, an enemy most foul. I think Assange was painted as a mysogynist in the global press right back in 2010 when details of his extradition request for a suspected rape came out. That was early in the Obama administration. I see your point but I think the chronology is off. Perhaps those people that are closer to Assange and know him better would know if he should have been criticised as a mysogynist even earlier? I think a better way to criticise China is to review the recent release of documents about Tiananmen Square. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-42465516 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-42465516
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      I don't really get your example. There were plenty of people that were critical of Assange well before 2016 and plenty of people that continue to praise him today. So I have trouble with Julian->Large numbers of China apologists, it just isn't very sound logic.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > There were plenty of people that were critical of Assange well before 2016 and plenty of people that continue to praise him today. A lot for the people that continue to praise him today are people that were critical of him before 2016 (and vice versa.)
- baursak 9y ago
  > Anyone living in the West who looks down on certain US politicians for their anti-immigrant sentiments but is fine with China's state enforced ethnic nationalism ... is probably not a significant amount of people

provost 9y ago

Looked into the taxes: for regular employees there are 7 brackets. Anything over 80,000RMB (12320 US Dollar) is taxed at 45%. Though it looks like if your income is derived by a company outside China, and you live there for >=1 and <= 5 years, you are exempted from taxes. Freelancers have 3 levels (between 20% to 40%). [1] https://www.ecovis.com/focus-china/individual-income-tax-iit-china-ground-rules/ https://www.ecovis.com/focus-china/individual-income-tax-iit...

pcr0 9y ago
Important to note that those figures are for monthly income, not yearly.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Chinese taxes are a bit higher than the states, but note that is an all inclusive rate (federal, local). There are also many ways to get some income tax free for foreigners via special exemption (say around 10%) so it is only a bit more than USA taxes in the end (I filed the foreign tax credit form way too many times so have done the math a lot).
- lowpro 9y ago
  This is actually lower than the US in a few places, including California where the top bracket including local, state, and federal taxes can go up to 52%. On mobile so don't have a reference on me.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Sure, though coming from Washington state that wasn’t much solace. Even without state taxes, it some how worked out that I was fairly even with my USA federal tax liability, probably because the deductions are different in china.

mtgx 9y ago

Also 10 years prison for anyone that criticizes the government. Decisions, decisions.

inDigiNeous 9y ago

Hearing all the negative stuff about China recently, like the online censorship, dictatorship, stories about people not caring about human life, like hearing it's common that if you accidentally drive over people, many will backup to finish the job so they wont' have to pay the insurance for rest of the life and seeings stories like babies on the streets and nobody caring, why would anyone want to work in China? Are these stories true, or just negative propaganda to threaten the great republic of China ? Anybody care to share experiences living there ?

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
We probably hear mostly about the sensationally negative things the most because they drive clicks. The same could be said about all the negative news coming out of the US. Why would anyone want to move there? And yet they do, and many thrive. I'm sure China is thriving, despite its problems.
- westiseast 9y ago
  The problem is best illustrated with things like road deaths. If you look at road deaths for China, it’s something like 20 per 100k people per year vs maybe 2-3 in the UK. What that means is, statistically China is 8-10 times “worse” than the UK. Does it mean you’re going to be seeing car crashes everywhere all the time? No. Does it mean China’s road safety is much worse? Yes. Things are much worse in China in a variety of meaningful respects. Does that mean it’s impossible to live there? Not at all.
  - sh4z 9y ago
    If we instead go onto crime; If you look at violent crime we have 6 times more robberies, 4 times more murders and 18 times more gun crime in the USA compare to China (per capita) Does it mean you're going to be seeing people getting shot everywhere all the time? No. Does it mean general safety in the US is much worse? Yes. Things are much worse in USA in a variety of meaningful respects. Does that mean it's impossible to live there? Not at all. Well, if you can stand having Trump as the president of the country you live in.

thisisit 9y ago

How does this work along with their plan to limit city population? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/26/chinas-shanghai-sets-population-25-million--big-city-disease https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/26/chinas-shangha...

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
There are so few foreigners in China relative to locals that they barely budge any population statistics.

jijji 9y ago

What they don't tell you is that two of those ten years will be spent in a secret gulag for writing a wechat private message to your friend about how you dont like the great firewall of china. Thanks, but I'll pass.

BoorishBears 9y ago
You could also just... not send WeChat private messages to your friend about how you don't like the great firewall of China. I mean, I don't support the Firewall in the slightest, but I think the kind person who wants to send messages like that is exactly who they want to keep out by keeping brutal punishments for dissident behavior. I've always felt if you go to a country you should respect it's laws, and if you feel you'll be unable to respect it's laws due to moral conflict you shouldn't go to the country. And it's not like you should want to benefit from a country (or let a country benefit from you!) that has laws you're so opposed to that you'd be willing to risk severe punishment to comment on them...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
mirajshah 9y ago
Inflammatory troll commenter spotted...
- jijji 9y ago
  It's nice to get a 10-year visa, but having to look over your shoulder every day in fear that the government is going to kidnap you for some random thing you said privately to your friend, that is a real concern. Tell the thousands of people who sit in prison cells for doing just that they are trolls.

Proven 9y ago

They might be able to attract high end talent from low end countries.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

I’m not sure what the big deal is here, they have offered something like this for awhile, and in my experience, is nearly impossible to obtain unless you’ve won a Nobel (and not the peace kind). Most of us were just on work visas that were renewed yearly, the lucky ones got two year visas. Someday that might change, but I’m not sure how it would make things much better.

ChrisBland 9y ago

I think I'll pass, too many restrictions and gotchas. This is why we left Hong Kong after the handoff in 96.

jdlyga 9y ago

I have a 10 year visa to China from the United States. It's just a tourist visa though. I think it's a special agreement between the two countries.

adamson 9y ago
You can only stay for ninety days at a time on a tourist visa (the point of which is to prevent you from taking a job and sticking around)

znpy 9y ago

Ten-year-visa really sounds like "come and do your things, but then go away, we don't really want you"

nolo 9y ago

I received a 10 year visa and would certainly not call myself Nobel level. Fairly straightforward process, but you do need to provide quite a few personal details