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Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what

Happy for him. I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable. And yes, other so-called 'nicer' / 'ethical' rideshare companies who didn't have to get their hands dirty because they profited from the ecosystem that Uber created exist precisely because of that.

ivanbakel 9y ago
>We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable. This is really strangely dismissive. Does the "paradigm shift" justify any and all of Uber's unethical actions? If so, why do you think breaking the law and harassing rape victims is either acceptable or laudable? If not, why bring it up, unless you're perpetuating some kind of entrepeneur business-worship over basic moral decency?
- remarkEon 9y ago
  Steve Jobs was, on balance, likely a horrible person and needlessly cruel. I’m still very happy he did what he did. These people are human, and are not without sin. Entrepreneur worship is weird, I agree, however I wouldn’t dismiss the additive things otherwise miserable people did for society.
  - forapurpose 9y ago
    Jobs is a great point, for the other argument. Jobs didn't break the law, but he disrupted multiple industries from computers to phones to music to retail.
    - remarkEon 9y ago
      You’re absolutely right. And Travis needs to be criticized for that (and he is). If the question, though, is about judging a company’s contribution to society based on how morally upstanding the founder is I think the point I’m trying to make still stands.
      - craigching 9y ago
        > contribution to society I think it’s too early to judge Uber’s “contribution to society” when the investors are basically footing the bill for all of Uber’s customers. Let’s see Uber make a profit and it still be less costly/better service to what consumers get now and then we can talk about their contribution to society.
        remarkEon 9y ago
        Making a profit isn’t a fair standard in this case. I left LA recently, but uber made social interactions in that city I’d otherwise pass on totally possible. It honestly opened up moving around LA County in a way that public transit never could. So, no, it’s not too early to judge. We’re already seeing the benefits.
        doktrin 9y ago
        I personally tend to think that I'd value ride sharing services even if prices increase to parity with traditional taxis. After all, just getting a cab in many cities is a real pain point. I also think that ride sharing services are here to stay, and that both individual consumers and society as a whole are better off for it. However, the parents point is more general and I think you're talking past it. You can't evaluate Uber's societal contributions based on short term and possibly ephemeral benefits. For example, if ride sharing services suddenly disintegrate once VC funding dries up then they can't be said to have made a meaningful impact. Sustainability is actually crucial.
      - forapurpose 9y ago
        > If the question, though, is about judging a company’s contribution to society based on how morally upstanding the founder is ... Far more than Kalanick's behavior, it is the company's practices that are the problem. They willfully broke the law and they also mistreated many people from employees to drivers to rape victims.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > Jobs didn't break the law Jobs often took an “ask for forgivenss” approach. Copying Xerox [1], screwing Wozniak [2], the naming schtick with the Beatles, et cetera. [1] http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple-and-xerox-parc http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple... [2] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atari-bonus-267711 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atari...
      - brandonmenc 9y ago
        > screwing Wozniak This is an unpopular opinion, but if it weren't for Jobs, Woz would have remained an unknown HP engineer.
        JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > This is an unpopular opinion, but if it weren't for Jobs, Woz would have remained an unknown HP engineer I completely agree. I also think Steve Jobs was a great man. Part of his greatness was knowing which rules he could bend, which rules he could break, and deftly negotiating the aftermath.
        forapurpose 9y ago
        > greatness was knowing which rules he could bend, which rules he could break, and deftly negotiating the aftermath. Greatness isn't hurting other people, but finding ways to get things done that benefit all stakeholders, including society and community.
      - forapurpose 9y ago
        >> Jobs didn't break the law > Jobs often took an “ask for forgivenss” approach. So we agree: He didn't break the law. Being a jerk to his co-founder is not at all comparable.
- stale2002 9y ago
  Not the poster, but I don't think it "justifies" and of the bad stuff that happened. But I think it is important to recognize both the bad and the good stuff that happened.
misun78 9y ago
Thank you for providing a balanced view that’s so often missing on anything Uber related on HN. There is no denying that Travis threw ethics out of the window and took his paranoia way too far and never matured into a peacetime CEO. But every time a HN user takes an Uber, Lyft, Via, Grab, Ola etc etc you can thank Travis for his ruthlessness in fighting some of the most powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of NYC as an example) to get you a product type that’s loved by millions.
- heymijo 9y ago
  That's not entirely true. Lyft paved the way for UberX.
  - misun78 9y ago
    Just because Lyft entered some cities before Uber did does not mean they eventually paved the path for legalization. Most of the battles that occurred once local governments realized the magnitude of ridesharing were led by Uber.
    - xtracto 9y ago
      Yes! there was an a16z podcast which interviewed someone from Lyft. They commented that they were very conservative in their decisions, leaving other companies to push the legalization issues.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - deepakhj 9y ago
    Sidecar invented the driver using their own car, leading the way to Uberx and lyft.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  There's no evidence that the unethical behavior was necessary or even helped. > powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of NYC as an example) DeBlasio is entrenched because he was elected by a majority of his constituents. The people get to write the rules, called laws. Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right?
adjkant 9y ago
The question is if this paradigm shift was more valuable than all of the negative things he did. If he didn't come up with it, how do we know someone wouldn't have done it a year later? We shouldn't rewrite history, but I don't think he deserves all that much credit for thinking up an app for cabs with drivers not needing a permit and using their own car.
- misun78 9y ago
  As an Uber employee who has seen the company fight one battle over another for the last 4 years, he absolutely deserves most of the credit (and conversely all the blame from the fallouts). Uber formulated the following approach to get ridesharing in the hands of everyone: 1. Operate in legal grey areas to get a product infront of consumers. Build a large enough network of riders and drivers to prove the product market fit. 2. By the time, politicians and the connected taxi cartels realize the magnitude of the change and seek to outlaw it, rally their own voters to back Uber. 3. Under pressure, have politicians clear the path for legalization. This has played out in more cities than I can remember. Step #1 before #2 is what made TK and Uber different. The level of ruthlessness it requires, I’d have a hard time substituting others in his position.
  - forapurpose 9y ago
    Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example. Your description left out buying off politicians and breaking the law. > taxi cartels The picture of taxi owners as powerful doesn't at all match what I know. It's a shibboleth promoted by Uber.
    - richardknop 9y ago
      > Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example. That’s actually a bad example. Airbnb has tons of legal troubles just as Uber. In many cities it operates illegally. I have traveled around world and used Airbnb a lot and in about half the places I was told it is a grey area or straight out illegal. Hotel lobby has been busy pushing governments to legislate against Airbnb. It’s just that sharing economy company like that is hard to fight as there is not a bunch of hotel buildings you can go and close down / inspect. It’s hundreds or thousands of either normal folk trying to make extra buck from their unused rooms or speculators buying flats just to rent them via Airbnb. A very good parallel can be made between Uber vs entrenched taxi industry & Airbnb vs hotel industry. Both companies disrupting old industries using any gray area or straight illegality if it’s hard to enforce.
volgo 9y ago
Exactly this. People sit comfortably in their morals while enjoy the huge benefits brought about by Uber. Things are comfortable because people like Travis were willing to take the blame on the wrong side of history and forge ahead anyways. We all sit comfortably in the Bay Area because our ancestors murdered and stole lands from Native Americans. They also build an entire ecosystem that gained wealth from exploiting laborers and immigrants. History is messy, but they did these things so their children can sit around in comfortable homes enjoying these highly philosophical debates without any physical danger
- forapurpose 9y ago
  I've heard people justify war crimes this craven way, saying the survival of their nation was at stake, and those people usually and rightfully go to jail. I've never heard fraudulent business practices that someone cashed in on justified this way.
  - LarryDarrell 9y ago
    Capitalism blood-lust.
  - volgo 9y ago
    > those people usually and rightfully go to jail Exactly my point. They got punished for it, but their children lived to enjoy the fruits of their labor, without any blame or punishment.
- santoriv 9y ago
  Wait what? Murdering people and stealing land turned out great for the murderer's ancestors so it's all ok? Not from the point of view of those who were murdered. Using that logic - if space aliens came and murdered all the technologically inferior humans and took Earth for themselves, it would be all ok. After all, they are building a more technologically advanced and superior society on Earth for their children.
  - volgo 9y ago
craigching 9y ago
> I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. How about we improve public transport? I know it’s unpopular to propose “socialist” ideas, but public transport works elsewhere in the world, why does it have to be so horrible here? Why does someone have to profit for something that you agree is a “pain?”
- jeffdavis 9y ago
  There are a lot of practical challenges here because this country was already built for cars as the universal form of transport.
  - AlexandrB 9y ago
    Over the last 50 years American exceptionalism has morphed from: "We are the greatest country on earth, unique in our ability to achieve." to "We are the most special snowflake country in the world, unique in our inability to improve healthcare, public infrastructure, or reduce deaths by firearms." It's really quite sad, I hope you guys get our of your rut soon.
    - carlivar 9y ago
      Hyperloop, if it isn't just hype, is a step in the right direction.
      - mplewis 9y ago
        Hyperloop is another private service for the wealthy. It won't help connect communities like locally-owned public transit does.
        malandrew 9y ago
        Electricity was also once only for the wealthy.
lurr 9y ago
Which part of blazing a trail excuses having execs go to India to try and obtain medical records to discredit a woman accusing a driver of Rape?
msmith10101 9y ago
Two points: 1. You write as if Uber has solved the transportation problem sustainably. The end state of an Uber job is that it will pay less than minimum wage. Why? Because the barrier to entry is the same as most minimum wage jobs (assuming you have a car made in the last 10 years) and it is more desirable than minimum wage jobs (flexible hours, no boss). The pay may look better on paper, but when all the hidden costs are accounted for it will be less than minimum wage. Uber is operating in an unsustainable bubble. Sequoia and Softbank are subsidizing your trips. 2. My guess is that if your mom was raped in an Uber and one of Travis' lieutenants got (somehow, possibly by stealing/bribing - not by asking her permission) your mom's medical records to prove to himself that she really was raped (to determine Uber liability and that it wasn't staged by a competitor), then you might feel differently in your respect and admiration for Travis Kalanick.
- sushid 9y ago
  Wow, you do realize that you can mention the Uber rape case without trying to make it so personal to the OP, right? he's not defending him in that regard at all. All he's saying is that he brought about the concept of ride sharing (debatable since there was, for instance, Sidecar before the advent of UberX) to the public and that he understands the pain of being ousted by your own company.
  - msmith10101 9y ago
    The saddest thing about Travis Kalanick's story is that he was ousted because his greedy investors were afraid they wouldn't see a 20x return on their investment, and not because of the ponzi-scheme fundamentals or ethical compromises that appear in tech rags every week. He was ousted by Benchmark, not by law enforcement. He's walking away with over a billion, rather than a go-to-jail card.
- dang 9y ago
  We've seen many HN commenters lose their manners if not their minds when posting about Uber—this very thread is full of it. But "if your mom was raped in an Uber" is off the charts: uncivil and utterly gratuitous. Had you posted other uncivil comments I'd ban you, but since you haven't, we'll treat it as an isolated lapse. Please don't do it again though. If you can't remain scrupulously respectful of the person you're replying to, please don't post. If you'd read the HN guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart, we'd appreciate it. That spirit is intellectual curiosity: considering things for the pleasure of considering them. That doesn't fit with flamewars and is incompatible with personal attack.
amazingman 9y ago
I love how you completely gloss over Kalanick’s pivotal role in building one of the worst company cultures in SV, and how the tech culture at large suffered for it both in terms of PR and furthering the spread of douchebag ideology.
- ricksanch88 9y ago
  To be fair SV does a pretty good job at spreading douchebag ideology, with or without Kalanick.
soneca 9y ago
You imply that being ousted from the company he created is not a direct consequence of his actions. You imply that unethical behavior was helpful to Uber defeat awful local transport lobbies in some cities and improve transportation for the people. I strongly disagree with both assumptions. I believe he was ousted for legitimate reasons that he is 100% individually responsible for and I believe that unethical behavior at Uber did nothing to help them win the battle against local lobbies (only to win against competitors).
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  I don't see that the GP implied his ousting wasn't a direct consequence of his actions. Anyway, it's not hard to imagine that Travis, despite being aware of how his actions resulted in consequences, may feel hurt, and maybe even remorseful. It would be a mistake to believe that people who act poorly all lack empathy.
  - soneca 9y ago
    Yeah, actually you are right. GP did not implied it and my disagreement on this point is wrongly stated. It would be more properly stated that I do not personally feel bad for Travis being ousted (because is, IMO, a deserved consequence of his acts). And in this case it is not actually a disagreement, just a difference of our reactions.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
      Ok, cool, thank you. Yeah, I don't feel bad for the guy either. I hope he feels discomfort for the wrongs his enacted. That would, at least, make him human.
  - omosokeye 9y ago
    Great point, Bad things happened under his leadership, which lead to his exit. Uber was his baby and his actions has created doubt about Uber in the hearts of many. He probably feels really bad about his actions. He probably feels like selling his share might help. Lets cut the guy some slack he's only human.
geofft 9y ago
> I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. The market doesn't care about the feelings of executives. He was a net liability for Uber by the end, and if he couldn't mamage to keep himself valued by the market, that's on him.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  That knowledge does nothing to alleviate the potential hurt he may feel. Knowing you messed up doesn't necessarily make it any less painful.
jeffbax 9y ago
Uber has it's faults, but the degree they had to fight tooth and nail in every municipality over something that was so demonstrably better than what was there before is absurd and should be a lesson for every other industry. And yes, voting with one's wallet is often the most effective form of voting we have.
datpuz 9y ago
Cashing out for several billion probably helps dull the pain.
jellicle 9y ago
Which cities is Uber serving that didn't have public transport?
oliv__ 9y ago
Seeing you write his name out just made my mind create a connection between him and Travis the taxi driver from "Taxi Driver". Life has an interesting sense of humor.
debt 9y ago
Why? He was sitting on a goldmine and fucked it all up due to his own arrogance. And all the unethical, getting-their-hands-dirty shit you mentioned seems of dubious value and certainly moreso now that he's been fired from his company; seems like all the same could've been achieved without hiring a team of assholes and without being one himself.

ivanbakel 9y ago

>We can debate about Uber's business practices until the cows come home, but this is undeniable. This is really strangely dismissive. Does the "paradigm shift" justify any and all of Uber's unethical actions? If so, why do you think breaking the law and harassing rape victims is either acceptable or laudable? If not, why bring it up, unless you're perpetuating some kind of entrepeneur business-worship over basic moral decency?

remarkEon 9y ago
Steve Jobs was, on balance, likely a horrible person and needlessly cruel. I’m still very happy he did what he did. These people are human, and are not without sin. Entrepreneur worship is weird, I agree, however I wouldn’t dismiss the additive things otherwise miserable people did for society.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  Jobs is a great point, for the other argument. Jobs didn't break the law, but he disrupted multiple industries from computers to phones to music to retail.
  - remarkEon 9y ago
    You’re absolutely right. And Travis needs to be criticized for that (and he is). If the question, though, is about judging a company’s contribution to society based on how morally upstanding the founder is I think the point I’m trying to make still stands.
    - craigching 9y ago
      > contribution to society I think it’s too early to judge Uber’s “contribution to society” when the investors are basically footing the bill for all of Uber’s customers. Let’s see Uber make a profit and it still be less costly/better service to what consumers get now and then we can talk about their contribution to society.
      - remarkEon 9y ago
        Making a profit isn’t a fair standard in this case. I left LA recently, but uber made social interactions in that city I’d otherwise pass on totally possible. It honestly opened up moving around LA County in a way that public transit never could. So, no, it’s not too early to judge. We’re already seeing the benefits.
        doktrin 9y ago
        I personally tend to think that I'd value ride sharing services even if prices increase to parity with traditional taxis. After all, just getting a cab in many cities is a real pain point. I also think that ride sharing services are here to stay, and that both individual consumers and society as a whole are better off for it. However, the parents point is more general and I think you're talking past it. You can't evaluate Uber's societal contributions based on short term and possibly ephemeral benefits. For example, if ride sharing services suddenly disintegrate once VC funding dries up then they can't be said to have made a meaningful impact. Sustainability is actually crucial.
    - forapurpose 9y ago
      > If the question, though, is about judging a company’s contribution to society based on how morally upstanding the founder is ... Far more than Kalanick's behavior, it is the company's practices that are the problem. They willfully broke the law and they also mistreated many people from employees to drivers to rape victims.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > Jobs didn't break the law Jobs often took an “ask for forgivenss” approach. Copying Xerox [1], screwing Wozniak [2], the naming schtick with the Beatles, et cetera. [1] http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple-and-xerox-parc http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple... [2] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atari-bonus-267711 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atari...
    - brandonmenc 9y ago
      > screwing Wozniak This is an unpopular opinion, but if it weren't for Jobs, Woz would have remained an unknown HP engineer.
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > This is an unpopular opinion, but if it weren't for Jobs, Woz would have remained an unknown HP engineer I completely agree. I also think Steve Jobs was a great man. Part of his greatness was knowing which rules he could bend, which rules he could break, and deftly negotiating the aftermath.
        forapurpose 9y ago
        > greatness was knowing which rules he could bend, which rules he could break, and deftly negotiating the aftermath. Greatness isn't hurting other people, but finding ways to get things done that benefit all stakeholders, including society and community.
    - forapurpose 9y ago
      >> Jobs didn't break the law > Jobs often took an “ask for forgivenss” approach. So we agree: He didn't break the law. Being a jerk to his co-founder is not at all comparable.
stale2002 9y ago
Not the poster, but I don't think it "justifies" and of the bad stuff that happened. But I think it is important to recognize both the bad and the good stuff that happened.

misun78 9y ago

Thank you for providing a balanced view that’s so often missing on anything Uber related on HN. There is no denying that Travis threw ethics out of the window and took his paranoia way too far and never matured into a peacetime CEO. But every time a HN user takes an Uber, Lyft, Via, Grab, Ola etc etc you can thank Travis for his ruthlessness in fighting some of the most powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of NYC as an example) to get you a product type that’s loved by millions.

heymijo 9y ago
That's not entirely true. Lyft paved the way for UberX.
- misun78 9y ago
  Just because Lyft entered some cities before Uber did does not mean they eventually paved the path for legalization. Most of the battles that occurred once local governments realized the magnitude of ridesharing were led by Uber.
  - xtracto 9y ago
    Yes! there was an a16z podcast which interviewed someone from Lyft. They commented that they were very conservative in their decisions, leaving other companies to push the legalization issues.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- deepakhj 9y ago
  Sidecar invented the driver using their own car, leading the way to Uberx and lyft.
forapurpose 9y ago
There's no evidence that the unethical behavior was necessary or even helped. > powerfully entrenched politicians (DeBlasio of NYC as an example) DeBlasio is entrenched because he was elected by a majority of his constituents. The people get to write the rules, called laws. Who voted for Kalanick? What gave him the right?

adjkant 9y ago

The question is if this paradigm shift was more valuable than all of the negative things he did. If he didn't come up with it, how do we know someone wouldn't have done it a year later? We shouldn't rewrite history, but I don't think he deserves all that much credit for thinking up an app for cabs with drivers not needing a permit and using their own car.

misun78 9y ago
As an Uber employee who has seen the company fight one battle over another for the last 4 years, he absolutely deserves most of the credit (and conversely all the blame from the fallouts). Uber formulated the following approach to get ridesharing in the hands of everyone: 1. Operate in legal grey areas to get a product infront of consumers. Build a large enough network of riders and drivers to prove the product market fit. 2. By the time, politicians and the connected taxi cartels realize the magnitude of the change and seek to outlaw it, rally their own voters to back Uber. 3. Under pressure, have politicians clear the path for legalization. This has played out in more cities than I can remember. Step #1 before #2 is what made TK and Uber different. The level of ruthlessness it requires, I’d have a hard time substituting others in his position.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example. Your description left out buying off politicians and breaking the law. > taxi cartels The picture of taxi owners as powerful doesn't at all match what I know. It's a shibboleth promoted by Uber.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    > Many businesses have 'disrupted' industries, and almost all without behaving like Uber and Kalanick. Airbnb is a simple example. That’s actually a bad example. Airbnb has tons of legal troubles just as Uber. In many cities it operates illegally. I have traveled around world and used Airbnb a lot and in about half the places I was told it is a grey area or straight out illegal. Hotel lobby has been busy pushing governments to legislate against Airbnb. It’s just that sharing economy company like that is hard to fight as there is not a bunch of hotel buildings you can go and close down / inspect. It’s hundreds or thousands of either normal folk trying to make extra buck from their unused rooms or speculators buying flats just to rent them via Airbnb. A very good parallel can be made between Uber vs entrenched taxi industry & Airbnb vs hotel industry. Both companies disrupting old industries using any gray area or straight illegality if it’s hard to enforce.

volgo 9y ago

Exactly this. People sit comfortably in their morals while enjoy the huge benefits brought about by Uber. Things are comfortable because people like Travis were willing to take the blame on the wrong side of history and forge ahead anyways. We all sit comfortably in the Bay Area because our ancestors murdered and stole lands from Native Americans. They also build an entire ecosystem that gained wealth from exploiting laborers and immigrants. History is messy, but they did these things so their children can sit around in comfortable homes enjoying these highly philosophical debates without any physical danger

forapurpose 9y ago
I've heard people justify war crimes this craven way, saying the survival of their nation was at stake, and those people usually and rightfully go to jail. I've never heard fraudulent business practices that someone cashed in on justified this way.
- LarryDarrell 9y ago
  Capitalism blood-lust.
- volgo 9y ago
  > those people usually and rightfully go to jail Exactly my point. They got punished for it, but their children lived to enjoy the fruits of their labor, without any blame or punishment.
santoriv 9y ago
Wait what? Murdering people and stealing land turned out great for the murderer's ancestors so it's all ok? Not from the point of view of those who were murdered. Using that logic - if space aliens came and murdered all the technologically inferior humans and took Earth for themselves, it would be all ok. After all, they are building a more technologically advanced and superior society on Earth for their children.
- volgo 9y ago

craigching 9y ago

> I do not look fondly at what a pain local transport was in cities without public transport (and even those with), and it is Travis (yes, Travis first, Uber second) that led this paradigm shift. How about we improve public transport? I know it’s unpopular to propose “socialist” ideas, but public transport works elsewhere in the world, why does it have to be so horrible here? Why does someone have to profit for something that you agree is a “pain?”

jeffdavis 9y ago
There are a lot of practical challenges here because this country was already built for cars as the universal form of transport.
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  Over the last 50 years American exceptionalism has morphed from: "We are the greatest country on earth, unique in our ability to achieve." to "We are the most special snowflake country in the world, unique in our inability to improve healthcare, public infrastructure, or reduce deaths by firearms." It's really quite sad, I hope you guys get our of your rut soon.
  - carlivar 9y ago
    Hyperloop, if it isn't just hype, is a step in the right direction.
    - mplewis 9y ago
      Hyperloop is another private service for the wealthy. It won't help connect communities like locally-owned public transit does.
      - malandrew 9y ago
        Electricity was also once only for the wealthy.

lurr 9y ago

Which part of blazing a trail excuses having execs go to India to try and obtain medical records to discredit a woman accusing a driver of Rape?

msmith10101 9y ago

Two points: 1. You write as if Uber has solved the transportation problem sustainably. The end state of an Uber job is that it will pay less than minimum wage. Why? Because the barrier to entry is the same as most minimum wage jobs (assuming you have a car made in the last 10 years) and it is more desirable than minimum wage jobs (flexible hours, no boss). The pay may look better on paper, but when all the hidden costs are accounted for it will be less than minimum wage. Uber is operating in an unsustainable bubble. Sequoia and Softbank are subsidizing your trips. 2. My guess is that if your mom was raped in an Uber and one of Travis' lieutenants got (somehow, possibly by stealing/bribing - not by asking her permission) your mom's medical records to prove to himself that she really was raped (to determine Uber liability and that it wasn't staged by a competitor), then you might feel differently in your respect and admiration for Travis Kalanick.

sushid 9y ago
Wow, you do realize that you can mention the Uber rape case without trying to make it so personal to the OP, right? he's not defending him in that regard at all. All he's saying is that he brought about the concept of ride sharing (debatable since there was, for instance, Sidecar before the advent of UberX) to the public and that he understands the pain of being ousted by your own company.
- msmith10101 9y ago
  The saddest thing about Travis Kalanick's story is that he was ousted because his greedy investors were afraid they wouldn't see a 20x return on their investment, and not because of the ponzi-scheme fundamentals or ethical compromises that appear in tech rags every week. He was ousted by Benchmark, not by law enforcement. He's walking away with over a billion, rather than a go-to-jail card.
dang 9y ago
We've seen many HN commenters lose their manners if not their minds when posting about Uber—this very thread is full of it. But "if your mom was raped in an Uber" is off the charts: uncivil and utterly gratuitous. Had you posted other uncivil comments I'd ban you, but since you haven't, we'll treat it as an isolated lapse. Please don't do it again though. If you can't remain scrupulously respectful of the person you're replying to, please don't post. If you'd read the HN guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart, we'd appreciate it. That spirit is intellectual curiosity: considering things for the pleasure of considering them. That doesn't fit with flamewars and is incompatible with personal attack.

amazingman 9y ago

I love how you completely gloss over Kalanick’s pivotal role in building one of the worst company cultures in SV, and how the tech culture at large suffered for it both in terms of PR and furthering the spread of douchebag ideology.

ricksanch88 9y ago
To be fair SV does a pretty good job at spreading douchebag ideology, with or without Kalanick.

soneca 9y ago

You imply that being ousted from the company he created is not a direct consequence of his actions. You imply that unethical behavior was helpful to Uber defeat awful local transport lobbies in some cities and improve transportation for the people. I strongly disagree with both assumptions. I believe he was ousted for legitimate reasons that he is 100% individually responsible for and I believe that unethical behavior at Uber did nothing to help them win the battle against local lobbies (only to win against competitors).

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
I don't see that the GP implied his ousting wasn't a direct consequence of his actions. Anyway, it's not hard to imagine that Travis, despite being aware of how his actions resulted in consequences, may feel hurt, and maybe even remorseful. It would be a mistake to believe that people who act poorly all lack empathy.
- soneca 9y ago
  Yeah, actually you are right. GP did not implied it and my disagreement on this point is wrongly stated. It would be more properly stated that I do not personally feel bad for Travis being ousted (because is, IMO, a deserved consequence of his acts). And in this case it is not actually a disagreement, just a difference of our reactions.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    Ok, cool, thank you. Yeah, I don't feel bad for the guy either. I hope he feels discomfort for the wrongs his enacted. That would, at least, make him human.
- omosokeye 9y ago
  Great point, Bad things happened under his leadership, which lead to his exit. Uber was his baby and his actions has created doubt about Uber in the hearts of many. He probably feels really bad about his actions. He probably feels like selling his share might help. Lets cut the guy some slack he's only human.

geofft 9y ago

> I can only imagine how much being ousted from a company he created and raised to its current level must have hurt. The market doesn't care about the feelings of executives. He was a net liability for Uber by the end, and if he couldn't mamage to keep himself valued by the market, that's on him.

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
That knowledge does nothing to alleviate the potential hurt he may feel. Knowing you messed up doesn't necessarily make it any less painful.

jeffbax 9y ago

Uber has it's faults, but the degree they had to fight tooth and nail in every municipality over something that was so demonstrably better than what was there before is absurd and should be a lesson for every other industry. And yes, voting with one's wallet is often the most effective form of voting we have.

datpuz 9y ago

Cashing out for several billion probably helps dull the pain.

jellicle 9y ago

Which cities is Uber serving that didn't have public transport?

oliv__ 9y ago

Seeing you write his name out just made my mind create a connection between him and Travis the taxi driver from "Taxi Driver". Life has an interesting sense of humor.

debt 9y ago

Why? He was sitting on a goldmine and fucked it all up due to his own arrogance. And all the unethical, getting-their-hands-dirty shit you mentioned seems of dubious value and certainly moreso now that he's been fired from his company; seems like all the same could've been achieved without hiring a team of assholes and without being one himself.