10 ms·

Gosh when did risk-taking and failure become so objectionable? Dubai made some bad mistakes just like the rest of the world during the credit-fueled binge.

by raheemm 16y ago

jonknee 16y ago
It's just that it happened on a metropolis sized scale. A skyline had never before risen so quickly. It's now falling down at nearly the same pace. Interesting to watch and at least in my opinion, unique.
- megablast 16y ago
  I think China is coming close, of course they have a lot more backing than Dubai. I read somewhere that China has 70% of all the worlds cranes, busy putting up buildings. (yes, could be completely wrong, how does one go about finding that statistic out anyway).
  - jonknee 16y ago
    China also vastly larger than Dubai.
    - joezydeco 16y ago
      But exactly what are people doing in Dubai? What holds up the economy? Is there manufacturing? R&D? A healthy financial district? It seems like it was all built for "something" to show up, and it never did. So everyone is just busy hustling each other. A city full of nightclub owners.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        Las Vegas, on the other hand, does quite nicely as a city full of nightclub owners. There's definitely a future for Dubai as the Las Vegas of the middle east, if that's where they choose to go.
        joezydeco 16y ago
        Las Vegas is Las Vegas because it has the perception that "anything goes". So far Dubai has no casinos, a no-skin dress code, no alcohol in public, and they're cracking down on kissing. I'd say Vegas is safe for now.
        elblanco 16y ago
        I wonder how long it'll be before the decision to go that direction is made?
        siculars 16y ago
        Vegas isn't in any danger of being replaced by Dubai of all places. Vegas is vegas in part because it is shielded by the laws of the USA. Unlike Vegas, Dubai is controlled by the laws of Sharia as interpreted by the ruler of the day.
        hugh3 16y ago
        Well, it doesn't have to be the Las Vegas of the world, just the Las Vegas of the Middle East. But yes, obviously religion is the factor that holds it back. If the emirs (correct title?) can get it into their heads to let money beat religion, though, they have a huge opportunity.
      - elblanco 16y ago
        Dubai was trying to buy and monopolize the luxury market. Yachts, planes, real estate, jewelry, fashion, etc. They were simply trying to divert all of the world's luxury consumers to one place (Dubai) instead of other places (Paris, Monaco, New York, etc.).
potatolicious 16y ago
I think that's an oversimplification. People object to Dubai because the rise of the city was never based on any real economic activity. There was no real tourism, no manufacturing, little resource industry, nor a knowledge economy. It was all hype - in the same way that we frown and look down upon the unrealistic, borderline scammy dotcoms of yesteryear, we look on Dubai with some disdain for what we perceive as dishonest business. I may disagree with the politics of, say, China, but one cannot deny that their economic rise to power was based on real growth, in real industries, providing tangible benefit to people. Secondly, the objection to Dubai (and the schadenfreude you often see at its downfall) is fueled by the notion that much of Dubai's construction and service industry was built on indentured labor, if not borderline slavery; the labor abuses in Dubai during its hey-day would make a 19th century robber baron blush. Hell, if the reports are anywhere near accurate, labor conditions in Dubai makes a Chinese sweatshop a veritable paradise. So, in short, the perception (whether or not reality jives with this will be answered by history) is that: Dubai was built on hype, no real substance, fueled by shallow people, upon gross human rights abuses. It is far from as simple as making bad business decisions.
- stoney 16y ago
  As I understand it (though I could be wrong), the port in Dubai is one of the freight hubs of the world, which is where the Emirate gets a lot of its wealth (it has little/no oil - Abu Dhabi has most of the UAE's oil). So there was some economic activity there at least.
- raheemm 16y ago
  Dubai economy may seem shallow but it is based on logical strategies. It placed its bets on real estate, tourism, finance and trade. The global real estate meltdown is not unique to Dubai and Dubai is paying for it just like Miami or Vegas. Its bet on tourism is based on the theory of providing an alternative vacation destination to the larger middle east and northern Africa population. The tourism bet is also linked to the growth in global travel. Dubai conveniently sits in between West and East airline routes. Emirates airline has prospered precisely by taking advantage of this opportunity. So if Dubai just happens to be a transit stop, its quite logical to try to entice those travelers to vacation in Dubai. Dubai does not have any natural tourist attractions so they tried to build some. Some of it has been garish and comedic (indoor sking, etc) but some of it is quite fascinating from an engineering persective. Dubai's tradition of trade goes back hundreds of years. Its been the primary trading port between the middle east and the Indian subcontinent. It has invested in its trade hub status by encouraging other industries to use Dubai as the trading hub. This has lead to the creation of Media City, IT City, etc. Dubai's bet on finance is closely related to its admiration for NYC's financial status and history. Also, after 9-11, it was felt that some of the middle eastern oil wealth should be reinvested back in the region. Dubai tried to seize this opportunity by creating the Dubai stock exchange, and other related financial reforms. Dubai is not alone in these efforts. Bahrain (where I used to live), Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are all trying similar things. As far as the migrant labor situation, the entire Middle East region should do a better job of treating migrant workers. There are shallow people who abuse human rights in Dubai. But there are also visionaries, entrepreneurs and hard working folks who are trying to build real businesses (see http://www.startuparabia.com/ http://www.startuparabia.com/). The best thing about all these strategies and efforts is that it provides a space for hackers, creative folks, entrepreneurs, investors and the young of the middle east to try at other human endeavors.

Gosh when did risk-taking and failure become so objectionable? Dubai made some bad mistakes just like the rest of the world during the credit-fueled binge.

by raheemm 16y ago

Gosh when did risk-taking and failure become so objectionable? Dubai made some bad mistakes just like the rest of the world during the credit-fueled binge.

jonknee 16y ago

It's just that it happened on a metropolis sized scale. A skyline had never before risen so quickly. It's now falling down at nearly the same pace. Interesting to watch and at least in my opinion, unique.

megablast 16y ago
I think China is coming close, of course they have a lot more backing than Dubai. I read somewhere that China has 70% of all the worlds cranes, busy putting up buildings. (yes, could be completely wrong, how does one go about finding that statistic out anyway).
- jonknee 16y ago
  China also vastly larger than Dubai.
  - joezydeco 16y ago
    But exactly what are people doing in Dubai? What holds up the economy? Is there manufacturing? R&D? A healthy financial district? It seems like it was all built for "something" to show up, and it never did. So everyone is just busy hustling each other. A city full of nightclub owners.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      Las Vegas, on the other hand, does quite nicely as a city full of nightclub owners. There's definitely a future for Dubai as the Las Vegas of the middle east, if that's where they choose to go.
      - joezydeco 16y ago
        Las Vegas is Las Vegas because it has the perception that "anything goes". So far Dubai has no casinos, a no-skin dress code, no alcohol in public, and they're cracking down on kissing. I'd say Vegas is safe for now.
      - elblanco 16y ago
        I wonder how long it'll be before the decision to go that direction is made?
      - siculars 16y ago
        Vegas isn't in any danger of being replaced by Dubai of all places. Vegas is vegas in part because it is shielded by the laws of the USA. Unlike Vegas, Dubai is controlled by the laws of Sharia as interpreted by the ruler of the day.
        hugh3 16y ago
        Well, it doesn't have to be the Las Vegas of the world, just the Las Vegas of the Middle East. But yes, obviously religion is the factor that holds it back. If the emirs (correct title?) can get it into their heads to let money beat religion, though, they have a huge opportunity.
    - elblanco 16y ago
      Dubai was trying to buy and monopolize the luxury market. Yachts, planes, real estate, jewelry, fashion, etc. They were simply trying to divert all of the world's luxury consumers to one place (Dubai) instead of other places (Paris, Monaco, New York, etc.).

potatolicious 16y ago

I think that's an oversimplification. People object to Dubai because the rise of the city was never based on any real economic activity. There was no real tourism, no manufacturing, little resource industry, nor a knowledge economy. It was all hype - in the same way that we frown and look down upon the unrealistic, borderline scammy dotcoms of yesteryear, we look on Dubai with some disdain for what we perceive as dishonest business. I may disagree with the politics of, say, China, but one cannot deny that their economic rise to power was based on real growth, in real industries, providing tangible benefit to people. Secondly, the objection to Dubai (and the schadenfreude you often see at its downfall) is fueled by the notion that much of Dubai's construction and service industry was built on indentured labor, if not borderline slavery; the labor abuses in Dubai during its hey-day would make a 19th century robber baron blush. Hell, if the reports are anywhere near accurate, labor conditions in Dubai makes a Chinese sweatshop a veritable paradise. So, in short, the perception (whether or not reality jives with this will be answered by history) is that: Dubai was built on hype, no real substance, fueled by shallow people, upon gross human rights abuses. It is far from as simple as making bad business decisions.

stoney 16y ago
As I understand it (though I could be wrong), the port in Dubai is one of the freight hubs of the world, which is where the Emirate gets a lot of its wealth (it has little/no oil - Abu Dhabi has most of the UAE's oil). So there was some economic activity there at least.
raheemm 16y ago
Dubai economy may seem shallow but it is based on logical strategies. It placed its bets on real estate, tourism, finance and trade. The global real estate meltdown is not unique to Dubai and Dubai is paying for it just like Miami or Vegas. Its bet on tourism is based on the theory of providing an alternative vacation destination to the larger middle east and northern Africa population. The tourism bet is also linked to the growth in global travel. Dubai conveniently sits in between West and East airline routes. Emirates airline has prospered precisely by taking advantage of this opportunity. So if Dubai just happens to be a transit stop, its quite logical to try to entice those travelers to vacation in Dubai. Dubai does not have any natural tourist attractions so they tried to build some. Some of it has been garish and comedic (indoor sking, etc) but some of it is quite fascinating from an engineering persective. Dubai's tradition of trade goes back hundreds of years. Its been the primary trading port between the middle east and the Indian subcontinent. It has invested in its trade hub status by encouraging other industries to use Dubai as the trading hub. This has lead to the creation of Media City, IT City, etc. Dubai's bet on finance is closely related to its admiration for NYC's financial status and history. Also, after 9-11, it was felt that some of the middle eastern oil wealth should be reinvested back in the region. Dubai tried to seize this opportunity by creating the Dubai stock exchange, and other related financial reforms. Dubai is not alone in these efforts. Bahrain (where I used to live), Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are all trying similar things. As far as the migrant labor situation, the entire Middle East region should do a better job of treating migrant workers. There are shallow people who abuse human rights in Dubai. But there are also visionaries, entrepreneurs and hard working folks who are trying to build real businesses (see http://www.startuparabia.com/ http://www.startuparabia.com/). The best thing about all these strategies and efforts is that it provides a space for hackers, creative folks, entrepreneurs, investors and the young of the middle east to try at other human endeavors.