7 ms·

That's not why Amazon sold you an echo, though. Cortana or Siri exist without obvious nefarious purpose. Alex and Google are clearly trying to push advertising

That's not why Amazon sold you an echo, though. Cortana or Siri exist without obvious nefarious purpose. Alex and Google are clearly trying to push advertising. I know which I would prefer to set timers and play music for me.

addicted 9y ago
It’s a massive failure of the tech industry that the vast majority of the world doesn’t even realize this, and therefore places very little, if any, price premium on the “does not snoop on you” feature.
mikeash 9y ago
Does it matter why they sold it to me if I don't use it that way?
- walterbell 9y ago
  Yes, because it will likely evolve in ways not optimized for you, vs supporting a product that caters to your use case. Many products co-evolve with users, as the product modifies daily workflows. If you are not the target user, the product can evolve based on requirements that are adversarial to you.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    For $30, if I get a year or two of use out of it before Amazon evolves away my use cases, it was still nice to have while it lasted.
    - rhizome 9y ago
      And then what, throw it in the trash like the non-biodegradable toxic-metals container that it is?
      - mikeash 9y ago
        Take it to the county’s electronics recycling location. I doubt it’ll become useless so quickly though.
- coldtea 9y ago
  Yes, because its overall societal effect and role is more important that how some specific people use it if it's unrepresentative.
mnm1 9y ago
That's exactly why Amazon sold you an echo. To buy stuff from them. Warming up the car and playing music are just little features to get you to put it into your home--they are not the main features. Please don't tell me this isn't obvious in 2018.
- blacksmith_tb 9y ago
  Well, call it a good bet - I haven't ever bought anything with my Echo Dot, but the chances that I will, having it sitting there turning on the lights etc., are greater than if it wasn't sitting there.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    You've still given away commercially useful information though that Amazon can trade - for example, the companies you're using for your lights and any other automation hardware. If that's associated with your Amazon account then companies can track you through the payment details and use that to target you with advertising in that podcast you paid for, or in the advert in your coffee company email you get when they wish you Happy New Year, or whatever. That targetted selling may have no direct effect through the Echo itself, but the potential is there to increase the influence on you in other channels. There may be other info, we have 3 kids who use our FireTV: I'd imagine they can estimate the child's age & sex and give targetted advertising in emails/web pages to companies selling toys for those ages. Based on the apps (whatever they call them, skills?), they can probably target that much better.
- mikeash 9y ago
  What determines “the main features”? The ones I listed certainly are the main ones for me. I’m sure Amazon wants me to use the ones that make them more money, but if I don’t....
- propogandist 9y ago
  I got a amazon firestick recently. Installed Netguard on it (free android firewall) and pevented a few installed apps from phoning home. My firestick then refused to work. I left some of the apps disabled and my device is stuck in bootloop. Now imagine the data they're collecting from their suite of amazon devices, where you can't control the data-mining.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
>Cortana or Siri exist without obvious nefarious purpose. // It's not nefarious, but what happens if you ask a question like "open a website where I can buy music" or "find me a powerful new computer", or whatever. Is there no bias in Cortana/Siri towards MS/Apple? How about if you ask "is Siri or Cortana a better voice assistant?" ...

addicted 9y ago

It’s a massive failure of the tech industry that the vast majority of the world doesn’t even realize this, and therefore places very little, if any, price premium on the “does not snoop on you” feature.

mikeash 9y ago

Does it matter why they sold it to me if I don't use it that way?

walterbell 9y ago
Yes, because it will likely evolve in ways not optimized for you, vs supporting a product that caters to your use case. Many products co-evolve with users, as the product modifies daily workflows. If you are not the target user, the product can evolve based on requirements that are adversarial to you.
- mikeash 9y ago
  For $30, if I get a year or two of use out of it before Amazon evolves away my use cases, it was still nice to have while it lasted.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    And then what, throw it in the trash like the non-biodegradable toxic-metals container that it is?
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Take it to the county’s electronics recycling location. I doubt it’ll become useless so quickly though.
coldtea 9y ago
Yes, because its overall societal effect and role is more important that how some specific people use it if it's unrepresentative.

mnm1 9y ago

That's exactly why Amazon sold you an echo. To buy stuff from them. Warming up the car and playing music are just little features to get you to put it into your home--they are not the main features. Please don't tell me this isn't obvious in 2018.

blacksmith_tb 9y ago
Well, call it a good bet - I haven't ever bought anything with my Echo Dot, but the chances that I will, having it sitting there turning on the lights etc., are greater than if it wasn't sitting there.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  You've still given away commercially useful information though that Amazon can trade - for example, the companies you're using for your lights and any other automation hardware. If that's associated with your Amazon account then companies can track you through the payment details and use that to target you with advertising in that podcast you paid for, or in the advert in your coffee company email you get when they wish you Happy New Year, or whatever. That targetted selling may have no direct effect through the Echo itself, but the potential is there to increase the influence on you in other channels. There may be other info, we have 3 kids who use our FireTV: I'd imagine they can estimate the child's age & sex and give targetted advertising in emails/web pages to companies selling toys for those ages. Based on the apps (whatever they call them, skills?), they can probably target that much better.
mikeash 9y ago
What determines “the main features”? The ones I listed certainly are the main ones for me. I’m sure Amazon wants me to use the ones that make them more money, but if I don’t....
propogandist 9y ago
I got a amazon firestick recently. Installed Netguard on it (free android firewall) and pevented a few installed apps from phoning home. My firestick then refused to work. I left some of the apps disabled and my device is stuck in bootloop. Now imagine the data they're collecting from their suite of amazon devices, where you can't control the data-mining.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago

>Cortana or Siri exist without obvious nefarious purpose. // It's not nefarious, but what happens if you ask a question like "open a website where I can buy music" or "find me a powerful new computer", or whatever. Is there no bias in Cortana/Siri towards MS/Apple? How about if you ask "is Siri or Cortana a better voice assistant?" ...