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Regarding PhDs, grad international enrollment is declining. Regarding the full-paying foreign undergrads, their tuition contributes towards the costs of the un

Regarding PhDs, grad international enrollment is declining. Regarding the full-paying foreign undergrads, their tuition contributes towards the costs of the university that are shared. American students, especially at middle-ranking public schools, are hurt when schools lose their funding. Regarding the "racism against Americans," there is no such race, and if there were one it would not explain research productivity. What would is the self-selection of who will go across the world to study something technical, the much better high schools in other countries, and in the mere fact that the rest of the world is a larger talent pool than the US. It is easy to think of reasons.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
> Regarding PhDs, grad international enrollment is declining. Your source on that? All the schools I’m in contact with are still as international as ever in their CS PhD departments. I’m not sure what the trends are outside of CS, but I can’t imagine they would be very different. I think you are just pulling this number out of thin air. Research is funded quite differently from undergrad programs. Sure, fewer TAships are available, but your research funding is much more detached. DARPA and NSF aren’t going to become stingy all of a sudden. > Regarding the "racism against Americans," there is no such race, and if there were one it would not explain research productivity. If I claimed (without any evidence in fact) that “Indians or Chinese are less productive than Americans” I would totally be accused of racism even though both India and China are multi-ethnic. It is especially a stupid thing to say as foreign and domestic students are pretty diverse, with slackers (or dreamers) and very focused students on both sides.
- anxrn 9y ago
  Recent surveys do appear to support a slowdown in international graduate school enrollments ([1] summary, [2] original study). Furthermore, this trend predates the immigration policies of the current administration, and I suspect this trend has further strengthened. [1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/28/graduate-school-enrollment-grows-again-slower-rate https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/28/graduate-scho... [2] http://cgsnet.org/ckfinder/userfiles/files/CGS_GED16_Report_Final.pdf http://cgsnet.org/ckfinder/userfiles/files/CGS_GED16_Report_...
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Both of those state there is a slowdown in enrollment percentage (and only .9% at that), not absolute numbers. There are still more international graduate students in 2017 than in any previous year.
    - anxrn 9y ago
      This might be semantics, but a slowdown means exactly that: a drop in growth rate.
- pm90 9y ago
  > Your source on that? All the schools I’m in contact with are still as international as ever in their CS PhD departments. I’m not sure what the trends are outside of CS, but I can’t imagine they would be very different. I think you are just pulling this number out of thin air. So you're asking for a source when your own view is based on anecdotes? Great.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Yes, the number of international graduate students is at an all time in 2016, and I’m sure for 2017 also. It isn’t rocket science: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/international-students-united-states https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/international-studen... Growth has been falling, but that wasn’t the claim that was made, which was actually ridiculous.
grondilu 9y ago
> Regarding the "racism against Americans," there is no such race, The term "racism" is commonly used broadly, well beyond the notion of race (which doesn't even exist biologically anyway). Nationalities and religions are obvious examples. A derogative speech against say, Mexicans, is easily frowned upon and called "racist". I'm pretty sure nobody would accept the argument "there is no such thing as a Mexican race" as a defense.
bryanrasmussen 9y ago
What race is American?
- UncleEntity 9y ago
  Race to the bottom...

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

> Regarding PhDs, grad international enrollment is declining. Your source on that? All the schools I’m in contact with are still as international as ever in their CS PhD departments. I’m not sure what the trends are outside of CS, but I can’t imagine they would be very different. I think you are just pulling this number out of thin air. Research is funded quite differently from undergrad programs. Sure, fewer TAships are available, but your research funding is much more detached. DARPA and NSF aren’t going to become stingy all of a sudden. > Regarding the "racism against Americans," there is no such race, and if there were one it would not explain research productivity. If I claimed (without any evidence in fact) that “Indians or Chinese are less productive than Americans” I would totally be accused of racism even though both India and China are multi-ethnic. It is especially a stupid thing to say as foreign and domestic students are pretty diverse, with slackers (or dreamers) and very focused students on both sides.

anxrn 9y ago
Recent surveys do appear to support a slowdown in international graduate school enrollments ([1] summary, [2] original study). Furthermore, this trend predates the immigration policies of the current administration, and I suspect this trend has further strengthened. [1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/28/graduate-school-enrollment-grows-again-slower-rate https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/28/graduate-scho... [2] http://cgsnet.org/ckfinder/userfiles/files/CGS_GED16_Report_Final.pdf http://cgsnet.org/ckfinder/userfiles/files/CGS_GED16_Report_...
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Both of those state there is a slowdown in enrollment percentage (and only .9% at that), not absolute numbers. There are still more international graduate students in 2017 than in any previous year.
  - anxrn 9y ago
    This might be semantics, but a slowdown means exactly that: a drop in growth rate.
pm90 9y ago
> Your source on that? All the schools I’m in contact with are still as international as ever in their CS PhD departments. I’m not sure what the trends are outside of CS, but I can’t imagine they would be very different. I think you are just pulling this number out of thin air. So you're asking for a source when your own view is based on anecdotes? Great.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Yes, the number of international graduate students is at an all time in 2016, and I’m sure for 2017 also. It isn’t rocket science: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/international-students-united-states https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/international-studen... Growth has been falling, but that wasn’t the claim that was made, which was actually ridiculous.

grondilu 9y ago

> Regarding the "racism against Americans," there is no such race, The term "racism" is commonly used broadly, well beyond the notion of race (which doesn't even exist biologically anyway). Nationalities and religions are obvious examples. A derogative speech against say, Mexicans, is easily frowned upon and called "racist". I'm pretty sure nobody would accept the argument "there is no such thing as a Mexican race" as a defense.

bryanrasmussen 9y ago

What race is American?

UncleEntity 9y ago
Race to the bottom...