4 ms·

Reminded me we hired an indian android developer (contractor) through a phone interview (in US). When “he” showed up for work, it wasn’t him. The contractor who

Reminded me we hired an indian android developer (contractor) through a phone interview (in US). When “he” showed up for work, it wasn’t him. The contractor who actually showed up couldn’t answer the same questions.

at-fates-hands 9y ago
Had the same thing happen at a startup I was at. We had a .Net developer get hired. First week he showed up and was asked to do some remedial stuff like update some tables on a database and then refactor a few controllers in one of our apps. First day he sat at his desk browsing the internet all day. Second day, the senior dev asked if he needed help and by the third day he was bringing in several .Net programming books to try and help him. By the end of the week he was out. Both founders said they would only hire domestically from now on and do a better job of screening people.
- fortythirteen 9y ago
  Hired a JavaScript developer who passed the technical interview via phone. The guy that showed up couldn't understand the syntax errors that were showing up in the console.
- amrx101 9y ago
  Damn, I dont understand, didn't you guys have a final interview in person.
reallymental 9y ago
Oh the old bait and switch works very well for telephone interviews. Remove them ideally. Perhaps a solution to this could be to give the interviewee something that only he can give the interviewer back when they meet. Something that the interviewee cannot pass onto the 'real' candidate who will appear on the first day. On the other hand, fining the real candidate is the worst way possible, it has to be better than that. It can help prevent this attempt of 'baiting and switching' to a lesser competent candidate in the first place. The attitude should change from 'Oh I can give this test, I'll pass it for sure and you can pay me $X for it', to 'Screw that, they'll find out immediately that it wasn't me.'
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > fining the real candidate is the worst way possible I fail to understand why this is unacceptable. If I take a test for you, we both get in trouble.
  - reallymental 9y ago
    They pay a non-decent amounts to these test takers, because they are desperate, and most likely not very well off. So they're already in the red when they appear for the job they are not qualified for. Some do this because they think that the job market is skewed against them, and might also have the sentiments that these 'seats' within the companies are reserved for 'rich people' or the 'upper castes', when that's hardly the case. Bear in mind some companies/universities/schools only hire from a certain caste, that is a thing. One's caste is clearly mentioned in the Ration Cards, not sure if it's the case on the Aadhar Card. Fining them for an opportunity they thought they were going to get by 'gaming the system they were gamed out of' is just kicking them repeatedly, and does no one any good.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > They pay a non-decent amounts to these test takers, because they are desperate And because the consequences are low. Anticipated shame [1] is an observed determinant in cheating frequency. > does no one any good It deters cheating. This does the honest test takers, e.g. those without the resources to pay "a non-decent amount" to cheat, a favor. It does employers, by being able to better trust exam results, a favor. And as a result, it does the entire economy a favor. [1] https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0288727120160528-26780-1wzpu88.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1514912678&Signature=kaTNu7frcmYKBn1t6226TBjRQfM%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DLow_self-control_rational_choice_and_stu.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0...
      - reallymental 9y ago
        Edited: Added link Fining them is a way, I agree with you on that. But it's far from the best way. The paper you provided[0] also goes on to talk about the future actions of an offender who has been caught in the act previously. > It should be noted that being caught cheating in the past does not necessarily provide an accurate measure of high perception of being caught cheating in the future. I'll concede to cherry picking for my arguments, but even anecdotally, cheaters will cheat, cost is an afterthought. People negatively affected (caught cheating and fined) will only remember the part about being fined. From their perspective, the organisation has just exploited them more, and you have just bred more resentment for your organisation within this community. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0288727120160528-26780-1wzpu88.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1514912678&Signature=kaTNu7frcmYKBn1t6226TBjRQfM%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DLow_self-control_rational_choice_and_stu.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0...
raverbashing 9y ago
Is this through an H1B? No wonder it's the mess as it's presented A video interview should be the minimum.
- nradov 9y ago
  H-1B is for W-2 employees, not 1099 contractors.
- valuearb 9y ago
  H1B hires have been among the best i've ever made. Smart, diligent, and hard working. This was totally different.
nradov 9y ago
We had the same thing happen with a contractor position. Since this was for a short term contract and the candidate was out of state we hired based on phone interviews. But when the contractor actually showed up for work it was immediately clear that he was incompetent and not the same person. I wonder how often they get away with it?
thisisit 9y ago
While we dint exactly hire but we had an even worse situation. A particular developer from our team was conducting "real time" training outside office. He referred two guys for a particular job opening. While interviewing the first guy, in-person interview, we asked about process flows at his last job. The answer was uncannily similar to what we were doing. We were intrigued and dug deeper. It became apparent to us that he was describing our process back to us. When we asked about what OS his current employer was using for prod systems, he folded. So, we ended the interview. The 2nd guy, again in-person interview, repeated the same process flow. And he came prepared. He said the prod systems were Windows. When we pushed about the Windows flavor he answered Windows 10. He had never heard of the server version of Windows like 2012 R2. The best part was that he somehow thought the job was already in the bag. So whenever we asked a difficult questions his answers were pretty passive aggressive. Though I complained to both HR and developer's US manager, nothing came out of it. All reports were ignored.
- valuearb 9y ago
  I would have escalated my complaints up the chain of command if HR didn’t take action. Sounds like someone was trying to scam company from within, and may have had assistance from someone in HR.
walshemj 9y ago
you don't require id the proves the right to work in the USA. In the UK I have had to take passport/birth certificate even to register at agencies.
- valuearb 9y ago
  They had ID. They were the person they said they were. The person on the phone was not.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    So do a video call and have them show the passport or insist on FTF interviews. BTW I markdown companies that use skype for first interviews as with those that don't offer expenses.

at-fates-hands 9y ago

Had the same thing happen at a startup I was at. We had a .Net developer get hired. First week he showed up and was asked to do some remedial stuff like update some tables on a database and then refactor a few controllers in one of our apps. First day he sat at his desk browsing the internet all day. Second day, the senior dev asked if he needed help and by the third day he was bringing in several .Net programming books to try and help him. By the end of the week he was out. Both founders said they would only hire domestically from now on and do a better job of screening people.

fortythirteen 9y ago
Hired a JavaScript developer who passed the technical interview via phone. The guy that showed up couldn't understand the syntax errors that were showing up in the console.
amrx101 9y ago
Damn, I dont understand, didn't you guys have a final interview in person.

reallymental 9y ago

Oh the old bait and switch works very well for telephone interviews. Remove them ideally. Perhaps a solution to this could be to give the interviewee something that only he can give the interviewer back when they meet. Something that the interviewee cannot pass onto the 'real' candidate who will appear on the first day. On the other hand, fining the real candidate is the worst way possible, it has to be better than that. It can help prevent this attempt of 'baiting and switching' to a lesser competent candidate in the first place. The attitude should change from 'Oh I can give this test, I'll pass it for sure and you can pay me $X for it', to 'Screw that, they'll find out immediately that it wasn't me.'

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> fining the real candidate is the worst way possible I fail to understand why this is unacceptable. If I take a test for you, we both get in trouble.
- reallymental 9y ago
  They pay a non-decent amounts to these test takers, because they are desperate, and most likely not very well off. So they're already in the red when they appear for the job they are not qualified for. Some do this because they think that the job market is skewed against them, and might also have the sentiments that these 'seats' within the companies are reserved for 'rich people' or the 'upper castes', when that's hardly the case. Bear in mind some companies/universities/schools only hire from a certain caste, that is a thing. One's caste is clearly mentioned in the Ration Cards, not sure if it's the case on the Aadhar Card. Fining them for an opportunity they thought they were going to get by 'gaming the system they were gamed out of' is just kicking them repeatedly, and does no one any good.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > They pay a non-decent amounts to these test takers, because they are desperate And because the consequences are low. Anticipated shame [1] is an observed determinant in cheating frequency. > does no one any good It deters cheating. This does the honest test takers, e.g. those without the resources to pay "a non-decent amount" to cheat, a favor. It does employers, by being able to better trust exam results, a favor. And as a result, it does the entire economy a favor. [1] https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0288727120160528-26780-1wzpu88.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1514912678&Signature=kaTNu7frcmYKBn1t6226TBjRQfM%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DLow_self-control_rational_choice_and_stu.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0...
    - reallymental 9y ago
      Edited: Added link Fining them is a way, I agree with you on that. But it's far from the best way. The paper you provided[0] also goes on to talk about the future actions of an offender who has been caught in the act previously. > It should be noted that being caught cheating in the past does not necessarily provide an accurate measure of high perception of being caught cheating in the future. I'll concede to cherry picking for my arguments, but even anecdotally, cheaters will cheat, cost is an afterthought. People negatively affected (caught cheating and fined) will only remember the part about being fined. From their perspective, the organisation has just exploited them more, and you have just bred more resentment for your organisation within this community. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0288727120160528-26780-1wzpu88.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1514912678&Signature=kaTNu7frcmYKBn1t6226TBjRQfM%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DLow_self-control_rational_choice_and_stu.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0...

raverbashing 9y ago

Is this through an H1B? No wonder it's the mess as it's presented A video interview should be the minimum.

nradov 9y ago
H-1B is for W-2 employees, not 1099 contractors.
valuearb 9y ago
H1B hires have been among the best i've ever made. Smart, diligent, and hard working. This was totally different.

nradov 9y ago

We had the same thing happen with a contractor position. Since this was for a short term contract and the candidate was out of state we hired based on phone interviews. But when the contractor actually showed up for work it was immediately clear that he was incompetent and not the same person. I wonder how often they get away with it?

thisisit 9y ago

While we dint exactly hire but we had an even worse situation. A particular developer from our team was conducting "real time" training outside office. He referred two guys for a particular job opening. While interviewing the first guy, in-person interview, we asked about process flows at his last job. The answer was uncannily similar to what we were doing. We were intrigued and dug deeper. It became apparent to us that he was describing our process back to us. When we asked about what OS his current employer was using for prod systems, he folded. So, we ended the interview. The 2nd guy, again in-person interview, repeated the same process flow. And he came prepared. He said the prod systems were Windows. When we pushed about the Windows flavor he answered Windows 10. He had never heard of the server version of Windows like 2012 R2. The best part was that he somehow thought the job was already in the bag. So whenever we asked a difficult questions his answers were pretty passive aggressive. Though I complained to both HR and developer's US manager, nothing came out of it. All reports were ignored.

valuearb 9y ago
I would have escalated my complaints up the chain of command if HR didn’t take action. Sounds like someone was trying to scam company from within, and may have had assistance from someone in HR.

walshemj 9y ago

you don't require id the proves the right to work in the USA. In the UK I have had to take passport/birth certificate even to register at agencies.

valuearb 9y ago
They had ID. They were the person they said they were. The person on the phone was not.
- walshemj 9y ago
  So do a video call and have them show the passport or insist on FTF interviews. BTW I markdown companies that use skype for first interviews as with those that don't offer expenses.