5 ms·

I mean, maybe I am, maybe I'm not. How many other languages from the '70s haven't been replaced in a domain where they should have been? And, I mean, maybe you

by hug 9y ago

I mean, maybe I am, maybe I'm not. How many other languages from the '70s haven't been replaced in a domain where they should have been? And, I mean, maybe your example isn't really the best example you could have given. Name a layout quote-unquote more practical than QWERTY that should have caught on but didn't. Dvorak? No faster. Colmac? Nah. Any, y'know, studied benefits? None I can find, at least not with a P-value worth mentioning. I'm not saying SQL is the definitive end of database query languages, of course, because that would be silly. There is, almost certainly, a more objective truth. What I'm saying is good luck finding it; It's only semi-cynically that I say I wish you luck finding a better language than SQL. I honestly, with all my heart, wish that SQL could be replaced with something better, because I hate SQL. When some guy comes along and is like "we should do a better SQL!" the answer is yes, we should, but I'm not exactly going to hold my breath,

tome 9y ago
> And, I mean, maybe your example isn't really the best example you could have given. Name a layout quote-unquote more practical than QWERTY that should have caught on but didn't. Dvorak? No faster. Colmac? Nah. Any, y'know, studied benefits? None I can find, at least not with a P-value worth mentioning. Do you believe that all keyboard layouts are of indistinguishable practicality? That seems to be the inescapable conclusion of your claim.
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  Again, can you name any study that found a benefit with a non-laughable p-value? If nobody can, then one just has to conclude they are indistinguishable.
  - tome 9y ago
    I'm not asking what hug concludes, I'm asking what he/she believes. What we believe and what we scientifically conclude can be quite divergent things.
    - hug 9y ago
      Sorry for taking so long to get back to you: What I believe is that there are currently no keyboard layouts worth the hassle of switching, and to be honest I have a bit of a problem believing that there's any particular layout of 12 inch by 3 inch bit of space covered in linearly activated keys that is going to ever change that fact. Most changes in keyboard layouts are obviated by the fact that peoples fingers are more flexible than the language they type in. Do I believe there's better possible input methods than a 104-key keyboard? Most certainly. Have we got any yet? I don't think so.
      - tome 9y ago
        Thanks for the response. For most people I'd agree with you. I found my RSI symptoms were significantly improved by switching to Dvorak though. I concede that is not a scientific test :)
- EdwardDiego 9y ago
  > Do you believe that all keyboard layouts are of indistinguishable practicality? If you have evidence to the otherwise, a lot of us would be keen to read it.
  - tome 9y ago
    I'm happy to take hug's claim that there is no such evidence at face value. What I'm really interested in, however, is whether the absence of such evidence causes him/her to believe that there is no difference.
Ericson2314 9y ago
Sure SQL is pretty good as far as entrenched 70s techs go, but that's a pretty low bar to clear for design (separate from making something which people actually use). My immediate follow-up post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16050403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16050403 had some pretty concrete starting points. What more do you want to envision the entire language?

by hug 9y ago

tome 9y ago

> And, I mean, maybe your example isn't really the best example you could have given. Name a layout quote-unquote more practical than QWERTY that should have caught on but didn't. Dvorak? No faster. Colmac? Nah. Any, y'know, studied benefits? None I can find, at least not with a P-value worth mentioning. Do you believe that all keyboard layouts are of indistinguishable practicality? That seems to be the inescapable conclusion of your claim.

marcosdumay 9y ago
Again, can you name any study that found a benefit with a non-laughable p-value? If nobody can, then one just has to conclude they are indistinguishable.
- tome 9y ago
  I'm not asking what hug concludes, I'm asking what he/she believes. What we believe and what we scientifically conclude can be quite divergent things.
  - hug 9y ago
    Sorry for taking so long to get back to you: What I believe is that there are currently no keyboard layouts worth the hassle of switching, and to be honest I have a bit of a problem believing that there's any particular layout of 12 inch by 3 inch bit of space covered in linearly activated keys that is going to ever change that fact. Most changes in keyboard layouts are obviated by the fact that peoples fingers are more flexible than the language they type in. Do I believe there's better possible input methods than a 104-key keyboard? Most certainly. Have we got any yet? I don't think so.
    - tome 9y ago
      Thanks for the response. For most people I'd agree with you. I found my RSI symptoms were significantly improved by switching to Dvorak though. I concede that is not a scientific test :)
EdwardDiego 9y ago
> Do you believe that all keyboard layouts are of indistinguishable practicality? If you have evidence to the otherwise, a lot of us would be keen to read it.
- tome 9y ago
  I'm happy to take hug's claim that there is no such evidence at face value. What I'm really interested in, however, is whether the absence of such evidence causes him/her to believe that there is no difference.

Ericson2314 9y ago

Sure SQL is pretty good as far as entrenched 70s techs go, but that's a pretty low bar to clear for design (separate from making something which people actually use). My immediate follow-up post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16050403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16050403 had some pretty concrete starting points. What more do you want to envision the entire language?