4 ms·

We're still here. Based on my personal experience, there are plenty of reasons why geek girls are avoiding CS. For starters, I've had to deal with a few of my c

We're still here. Based on my personal experience, there are plenty of reasons why geek girls are avoiding CS. For starters, I've had to deal with a few of my classmates make lame jokes,like boobs and brains being an inverse ratio and following that up with "Oh hey, you're not flat chested. Haha." It's a no win situation for me. If I complain, I'm too sensitive. If I say something back, I'm a bitch. I've also had problems with one of my professors, who seemed think women only took CS classes because they were gold diggers in search of a MRS degree. Most of the guys in my classes are decent, if occasionally awkward when we do group projects together. But the ones who aren't tend to be the ones who go out of their way to be an ass. I think the article nailed it with this quote: "These roles would probably be ideal for women who prefer to be in communication-focused roles, if they know computer science and can communicate to all parties involved." My husband and several of our friends work at the same company. They are write code. All the women on their floor are relegated to "communication-focused" roles, like project/product managers. I've also run into this when people at my husband's office ask what I'm majoring in. When I say computer science, everyone's reaction is "Great! We could always use another project manager! You should talk to so and so about an internship." They look sort of baffled when I explain that no, I want to write code, not manage coders.

wanorris 19y ago
"They look sort of baffled when I explain that no, I want to write code, not manage coders." Good for you. Sorry about all the jerks. Since the studies apparently show that women are opting out because they prefer communication focused roles, others figure that all women are like that and would never want to be in the trenches writing code. And, indeed, many (or even all) of the women they have at that company may prefer those roles. But even if many people are bad about stereotyping others based upon their past experiences, there are definitely places where people will be happy to see you program as long as you have the aptitude and the interest. Unfortunately, one thing you will likely have to deal with throughout your career is programming departments dominated by male-centric attitudes and humor. (This can range from benign to outright offensive, depending on the people involved.) I don't really have any helpful advice for that. Then again, I spent a couple of years working in a very female-centric office, and that was a strange experience, too, so I guess that can work both ways. The last thing I want to do is to talk you out of programming, but you should go into it with your eyes open on this one.
- roadtripgeek 19y ago
  I really enjoy coding, so I plan to stick with it. I am hoping that programming jobs will be similar to other jobs I've worked, in that where you work does make a difference as far as "corporate culture" goes. I've been researching internships, and I've found a couple of companies that might be a good fit. I'm sure I'll find somewhere to fit in doing what I want, but I also expect to have to look a bit harder for it than the average male CS major would. But hey, isn't that what internships are partly for?
timr 19y ago
"They look sort of baffled when I explain that no, I want to write code, not manage coders." Not to condescend, but that will change in ten years. I base this not on your gender, but on the observation that there are very few old programmers. Everyone debates the reason for this (i.e. is it age discrimination, or is it programmer preference?) but the fact remains that most programmers end up doing other things as they age.
- edw519 19y ago
  "there are very few old programmers" "most programmers end up doing other things as they age" You base these statements upon what data? Your own observations? Then maybe you need another set of glasses. There are several million hackers that would disagree with you. Too bad you haven't had a chance to meet too many of them. Probably would have been interesting for both of you.
  - timr 19y ago
    How about the fact that, a decade out of university, all of my programmer friends have moved into management or other fields? Where's your data?
    - amichail 19y ago
      What's wrong with managing programmers? If you really want to, I'm sure you can contribute some code as well.
      - timr 19y ago
        There's nothing wrong with it. See my original post.
      - roadtripgeek 19y ago
        There's nothing wrong with managing programmers. It was just the assumption that I didn't want to "get my hands dirty" because I was female that bothered me. I don't know if it's common for project managers to contribute code in other companies. At husband's company, it is pretty much unheard of for for a project manager to write code. Project manager tends to be more of a technical writing/managerial position in his company. There's nothing wrong with that. But I have no wish to be a full time technical writer/manager.
edw519 19y ago
"the ones who go out of their way to be an ass" Look on the bright side. You may not even have to work with them before they out themselves. Some of us have to suffer for a while before we find out.
wheels 19y ago
Something I wrote on the topic a few years back: "Human Interface Guidelines (Uhm, the other ones.)" http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 KDE has had kind of an odd history with female contributors. At the time that I wrote that article, women were leading up every non-development part of the project (translation, documentation, usability, promotion / events, financial / political organization, artwork), but still only made up maybe 1% of the devel team. My theory at the time was that (a) most people that were majoring in CS in the late 90s got into computers because they played computer games as teens and (b) in the early 90s games were much more targeted towards stereotypically male themes, but I'd have expected things to level out a bit more by now since the primary draw of computers shifted to the internet, which had a more level gender pull.

wanorris 19y ago

"They look sort of baffled when I explain that no, I want to write code, not manage coders." Good for you. Sorry about all the jerks. Since the studies apparently show that women are opting out because they prefer communication focused roles, others figure that all women are like that and would never want to be in the trenches writing code. And, indeed, many (or even all) of the women they have at that company may prefer those roles. But even if many people are bad about stereotyping others based upon their past experiences, there are definitely places where people will be happy to see you program as long as you have the aptitude and the interest. Unfortunately, one thing you will likely have to deal with throughout your career is programming departments dominated by male-centric attitudes and humor. (This can range from benign to outright offensive, depending on the people involved.) I don't really have any helpful advice for that. Then again, I spent a couple of years working in a very female-centric office, and that was a strange experience, too, so I guess that can work both ways. The last thing I want to do is to talk you out of programming, but you should go into it with your eyes open on this one.

roadtripgeek 19y ago
I really enjoy coding, so I plan to stick with it. I am hoping that programming jobs will be similar to other jobs I've worked, in that where you work does make a difference as far as "corporate culture" goes. I've been researching internships, and I've found a couple of companies that might be a good fit. I'm sure I'll find somewhere to fit in doing what I want, but I also expect to have to look a bit harder for it than the average male CS major would. But hey, isn't that what internships are partly for?

timr 19y ago

"They look sort of baffled when I explain that no, I want to write code, not manage coders." Not to condescend, but that will change in ten years. I base this not on your gender, but on the observation that there are very few old programmers. Everyone debates the reason for this (i.e. is it age discrimination, or is it programmer preference?) but the fact remains that most programmers end up doing other things as they age.

edw519 19y ago
"there are very few old programmers" "most programmers end up doing other things as they age" You base these statements upon what data? Your own observations? Then maybe you need another set of glasses. There are several million hackers that would disagree with you. Too bad you haven't had a chance to meet too many of them. Probably would have been interesting for both of you.
- timr 19y ago
  How about the fact that, a decade out of university, all of my programmer friends have moved into management or other fields? Where's your data?
  - amichail 19y ago
    What's wrong with managing programmers? If you really want to, I'm sure you can contribute some code as well.
    - timr 19y ago
      There's nothing wrong with it. See my original post.
    - roadtripgeek 19y ago
      There's nothing wrong with managing programmers. It was just the assumption that I didn't want to "get my hands dirty" because I was female that bothered me. I don't know if it's common for project managers to contribute code in other companies. At husband's company, it is pretty much unheard of for for a project manager to write code. Project manager tends to be more of a technical writing/managerial position in his company. There's nothing wrong with that. But I have no wish to be a full time technical writer/manager.

edw519 19y ago

"the ones who go out of their way to be an ass" Look on the bright side. You may not even have to work with them before they out themselves. Some of us have to suffer for a while before we find out.

wheels 19y ago

Something I wrote on the topic a few years back: "Human Interface Guidelines (Uhm, the other ones.)" http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1051 KDE has had kind of an odd history with female contributors. At the time that I wrote that article, women were leading up every non-development part of the project (translation, documentation, usability, promotion / events, financial / political organization, artwork), but still only made up maybe 1% of the devel team. My theory at the time was that (a) most people that were majoring in CS in the late 90s got into computers because they played computer games as teens and (b) in the early 90s games were much more targeted towards stereotypically male themes, but I'd have expected things to level out a bit more by now since the primary draw of computers shifted to the internet, which had a more level gender pull.