5 ms·

That would be a huge improvement. Frankly the whole original point of H-1B was to bring in awesome people and encourage them to stay if they showed they brough

That would be a huge improvement. Frankly the whole original point of H-1B was to bring in awesome people and encourage them to stay if they showed they brought enough value. It should, as you said, be attached to the person with a fixed term (10 years?), then at the end of the term there should be a "job interview"-like process where it is determined if this person has brought enough value. If they succeed hand them a Green Card. Employers should still help them get the initial H-1B to show they have a job and that their credentials are credible. But after that the employee alone should hold the H-1B and be allowed to jump ship if they're unfairly treated or poorly compensated (after all the point of H-1B was never to get CHEAP labour, it was to get GOOD labour). The fixed term also gives them more personal security, without the threat of being kicked out with little notice.

jacobolus 9y ago
10+ years before a green card? Yeesh. That’s an outrageously long time to wait for permanent resident status.
- aeontech 9y ago
  The US immigration system is notoriously backed up. Even family-based green card processing are backlogged by 5-6 years last I’ve heard. It’s a perverse situation where people affected have no power to request any changes or improvements, and people who have power to do so, are not affected in the least, so there is no real incentive to improve anything.
  - ll931110 9y ago
    In addition, some people who have succeeded in the green card lottery actually oppose any change that makes immigration situation better. Maybe that's "us vs them" mentality?
  - uiri 9y ago
    Employment based applications are current for people from most countries. The big exceptions are Chinese, Filipino and Indian immigrants. There is a 2-3 year wait for 4th category Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. Given the possible qualifications for this category, I suspect that these are mostly immigrants subject to child abuse, neglect or abandonment within the US. Immediate relatives (spouses and minor children) of US citizens can always get a green card. I think that this process is fairly quick. The family based process looks much more backlogged. If you're a brother, sister, or married (adult?) child of a US citizen, you will be stuck waiting for at least a decade. If you're an unmarried adult child of a US citizen or green card holder, you're looking at a 5-6 year wait unless you're Filipino (10+ year wait) or Mexican (20+ year wait). If you're the spouse of a green card holder, the wait is "only" 1-2 years. https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citizen https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citize...
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Even family-based green card processing are backlogged by 5-6 years last I’ve heard. As of the most recent visa bulletin, the (quota limited) family-based categories are 2-13 years behind (different in each category) globally, with some countries much worse, notably Mexico where one category is at the same 2 year backlog that the category has globally, and the rest are 20-22 years behind.
- Someone1234 9y ago
  And yet still a vast improvement over the status quo in my opinion. The ten years is a fixed term, it can currently take at least that long but you can be deported earlier if you get fired from your job and are unable to find alternative employment compatible with your H-1B visa. It might be unnerving knowing you may have to leave in ten years time, but imagine how unnerving it would be to potentially be fired every single day and get deported that same year. That's what is currently going on.
- friedButter 9y ago
  It's touching 20+ years for EB3 Indians and Chinese today
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Getting an H1B is 90% of the way to getting a green card but with that weird company control, so why not cut the crud and do like the UK and Australia do: have a point based system that allows immigrants to directly apply for talent-based permanent residence?
- Someone1234 9y ago
  Simply because a fixed term before a Green Card gives us more data on how this individual is likely to perform in the US, not their country of origin. That's the whole point after all. Plus at least in the UK they don't immediately get permanent residence.
- ll931110 9y ago
  Ironically, Trump's agenda proposed exactly that system in August. So far there's very little support in House and Congress for some unknown reasons. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/346480-the-raise-act-reveals-what-trump-really-thinks-about http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/346...
  - tedivm 9y ago
    It does far more than just that- > In many ways, the RAISE Act returns us to the dark ages of American immigration policy. If enacted by Congress, this new legislation would cut the number of immigrants entering the United States by half. It would do away with family-based immigration, which reunites thousands of families every year and introduces a points-based system for potential immigrants which is stacked in favor of wealthy, highly-educated, English-speaking applicants. In short, it is the most far-reaching remaking of American immigration policy in more than 50 years. Now, if the RAISE Act applies to only the H1-B program then your claim would be accurate and I think the bill would have a lot of support.
briandear 9y ago
H1B was never created as a path to immigration. It was always designed around a single purpose: temporarily filling a shortage for a specific position until a qualified American could be found. Read the regulations. This idea of H1 as a path to a green card is just a fraudulent use of that visa. I am not opposed to people getting green cards — I am opposed to the idea that the H1B is some kind of back door to permanent residency. If you want to immigrate, get the proper visa.
- rtpg 9y ago
  So these people are good enough to work in our jobs , with skills that are, by definition, hard to find in the US. It sounds like these people should be fast tracked for citizenship, given that they would be filling a gap in the country's skillsets. If we invite them to move to the country, it seems fair to not kick them out for no good reason.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  There's no "backdoor", H1B is a dual intent visa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent
- neeleshs 9y ago
  May be I don't quite understand this - a "proper" employment based immigrant visa is one of https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/employment-based-immigrant-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat.... Which is what most H1B folks apply for. Not sure how H1b is a backdoor for permanent residency. Is your point that immigrant visa takes however long it takes (>10 years for Indians), and if one is already here on H1b, they should not expect H1b to be indefinitely extended until immigration visa is approved? For pretty much all countries other than India, there are no practical issues, since they get permanent residence well before their H1b expires. The problem is magnified for Indians to the extent that their lives are basically in suspended animation for several years
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > This idea of H1 as a path to a green card is just a fraudulent use of that visa. Wrong; it's explicitly, legally a dual-intent visa, unlike other non-immigrant visas in which immigration intent is prohibited and grounds for visa revocation. The idea of it as a path to permanent residency is explicitly part of its legal design, and so using it that way is not at all fraudulent.
damnyou 9y ago
Just stop with these ridiculous restrictions and allow anyone who doesn't have a criminal record to come in.
throwaway_98554 9y ago
"after all the point of H-1B was never to get CHEAP labour, it was to get GOOD labour" I find that to be naive. It's not because a politician says that something is for X that it's really for X. Especially considering that if for some reason good labor was rare and in demand, it would mean higher wages for this good labor. Follow the money... "(...) then at the end of the term there should be a "job interview"-like process where it is determined if this person has brought enough value." Why do you want to add citizenship to the deal? If the salary alone is not a good enough incentive, perhaps it needs to be higher. Otherwise you're just selling citizenship in exchange for lower wages.

jacobolus 9y ago

10+ years before a green card? Yeesh. That’s an outrageously long time to wait for permanent resident status.

aeontech 9y ago
The US immigration system is notoriously backed up. Even family-based green card processing are backlogged by 5-6 years last I’ve heard. It’s a perverse situation where people affected have no power to request any changes or improvements, and people who have power to do so, are not affected in the least, so there is no real incentive to improve anything.
- ll931110 9y ago
  In addition, some people who have succeeded in the green card lottery actually oppose any change that makes immigration situation better. Maybe that's "us vs them" mentality?
- uiri 9y ago
  Employment based applications are current for people from most countries. The big exceptions are Chinese, Filipino and Indian immigrants. There is a 2-3 year wait for 4th category Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. Given the possible qualifications for this category, I suspect that these are mostly immigrants subject to child abuse, neglect or abandonment within the US. Immediate relatives (spouses and minor children) of US citizens can always get a green card. I think that this process is fairly quick. The family based process looks much more backlogged. If you're a brother, sister, or married (adult?) child of a US citizen, you will be stuck waiting for at least a decade. If you're an unmarried adult child of a US citizen or green card holder, you're looking at a 5-6 year wait unless you're Filipino (10+ year wait) or Mexican (20+ year wait). If you're the spouse of a green card holder, the wait is "only" 1-2 years. https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citizen https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citize...
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Even family-based green card processing are backlogged by 5-6 years last I’ve heard. As of the most recent visa bulletin, the (quota limited) family-based categories are 2-13 years behind (different in each category) globally, with some countries much worse, notably Mexico where one category is at the same 2 year backlog that the category has globally, and the rest are 20-22 years behind.
Someone1234 9y ago
And yet still a vast improvement over the status quo in my opinion. The ten years is a fixed term, it can currently take at least that long but you can be deported earlier if you get fired from your job and are unable to find alternative employment compatible with your H-1B visa. It might be unnerving knowing you may have to leave in ten years time, but imagine how unnerving it would be to potentially be fired every single day and get deported that same year. That's what is currently going on.
friedButter 9y ago
It's touching 20+ years for EB3 Indians and Chinese today

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

Getting an H1B is 90% of the way to getting a green card but with that weird company control, so why not cut the crud and do like the UK and Australia do: have a point based system that allows immigrants to directly apply for talent-based permanent residence?

Someone1234 9y ago
Simply because a fixed term before a Green Card gives us more data on how this individual is likely to perform in the US, not their country of origin. That's the whole point after all. Plus at least in the UK they don't immediately get permanent residence.
ll931110 9y ago
Ironically, Trump's agenda proposed exactly that system in August. So far there's very little support in House and Congress for some unknown reasons. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/346480-the-raise-act-reveals-what-trump-really-thinks-about http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/346...
- tedivm 9y ago
  It does far more than just that- > In many ways, the RAISE Act returns us to the dark ages of American immigration policy. If enacted by Congress, this new legislation would cut the number of immigrants entering the United States by half. It would do away with family-based immigration, which reunites thousands of families every year and introduces a points-based system for potential immigrants which is stacked in favor of wealthy, highly-educated, English-speaking applicants. In short, it is the most far-reaching remaking of American immigration policy in more than 50 years. Now, if the RAISE Act applies to only the H1-B program then your claim would be accurate and I think the bill would have a lot of support.

briandear 9y ago

H1B was never created as a path to immigration. It was always designed around a single purpose: temporarily filling a shortage for a specific position until a qualified American could be found. Read the regulations. This idea of H1 as a path to a green card is just a fraudulent use of that visa. I am not opposed to people getting green cards — I am opposed to the idea that the H1B is some kind of back door to permanent residency. If you want to immigrate, get the proper visa.

rtpg 9y ago
So these people are good enough to work in our jobs , with skills that are, by definition, hard to find in the US. It sounds like these people should be fast tracked for citizenship, given that they would be filling a gap in the country's skillsets. If we invite them to move to the country, it seems fair to not kick them out for no good reason.
raverbashing 9y ago
There's no "backdoor", H1B is a dual intent visa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent
neeleshs 9y ago
May be I don't quite understand this - a "proper" employment based immigrant visa is one of https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/employment-based-immigrant-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat.... Which is what most H1B folks apply for. Not sure how H1b is a backdoor for permanent residency. Is your point that immigrant visa takes however long it takes (>10 years for Indians), and if one is already here on H1b, they should not expect H1b to be indefinitely extended until immigration visa is approved? For pretty much all countries other than India, there are no practical issues, since they get permanent residence well before their H1b expires. The problem is magnified for Indians to the extent that their lives are basically in suspended animation for several years
dragonwriter 9y ago
> This idea of H1 as a path to a green card is just a fraudulent use of that visa. Wrong; it's explicitly, legally a dual-intent visa, unlike other non-immigrant visas in which immigration intent is prohibited and grounds for visa revocation. The idea of it as a path to permanent residency is explicitly part of its legal design, and so using it that way is not at all fraudulent.

damnyou 9y ago

Just stop with these ridiculous restrictions and allow anyone who doesn't have a criminal record to come in.

throwaway_98554 9y ago

"after all the point of H-1B was never to get CHEAP labour, it was to get GOOD labour" I find that to be naive. It's not because a politician says that something is for X that it's really for X. Especially considering that if for some reason good labor was rare and in demand, it would mean higher wages for this good labor. Follow the money... "(...) then at the end of the term there should be a "job interview"-like process where it is determined if this person has brought enough value." Why do you want to add citizenship to the deal? If the salary alone is not a good enough incentive, perhaps it needs to be higher. Otherwise you're just selling citizenship in exchange for lower wages.