5 ms·

I really wish that someone would do the right thing and fix H-1B by attaching the visa to the person, not the job/employer. That would help fix sooo many of th

by rtpg 9y ago

I really wish that someone would do the right thing and fix H-1B by attaching the visa to the person, not the job/employer. That would help fix sooo many of the objections to this program. But perhaps most importantly it would mean people on this visa would not be indentured servants , with the possibility of visa revocation hanging over them.

immgrnt 9y ago
The Tech giants like, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. will never let that happen.
- tedivm 9y ago
  I don't think that's the case. Right now a ton of the H1-B visa's are given to various IT contracting companies, which use them to suppress wages. Those companies know that their people can't easily leave (and wouldn't be qualified for lots of other companies anyways), and so they can pay them less than they would US citizens. The bigger tech companies aren't using the program to suppress wages though, they're using it to bring in highly skilled employees. For example, there is a ton of hiring in the AI field and grabbing up foreign workers who are skilled in this area is a huge economic advantage for the US. The tech companies want these people, not some dude who took a three month course and is now "qualified" to work on a helpdesk. It's in the best interest of these tech companies to reform the H1-B program to make it more viable for these highly skilled workers. Unfortunately the big fear right now is that any reform attempts will be used by the current administration to crack down on all H1-B holders instead of simply reforming the system so it fits the original purpose.
always_good 9y ago
When I worked for Amazon, I felt bad for the people working there on visas. They never felt like they could say no when pressured into working through the weekend. After uprooting your family and bringing them to the States, you have zero bargaining power. It's a pretty dark system.
- ma2rten 9y ago
  I am on an H1-B visa. I would say no to working on weekends. Changing jobs is actually relatively painless with an H1-B visa. The only risk is that you have to find a new job in relatively short amount of time if would get fired.
  - immgrnt 9y ago
    I'm on H1B and in the backlog for past 10 years. I'll soon be 50 years old. If I lose my job, my resume will not even get shortlisted at this age
  - chrisper 9y ago
    You can say no, because in the worst case you would "only" have to go back to Germany. But what about people who are from countries like Pakistan etc.? They would rather work on weekends than to have to go back.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  I worked at amazon with a number of H1Bs and they were never asked to work on weekends AFAIK(and I get notifications for commits into our repo and never particularly noticed any weekend activity).
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
Someone1234 9y ago
That would be a huge improvement. Frankly the whole original point of H-1B was to bring in awesome people and encourage them to stay if they showed they brought enough value. It should, as you said, be attached to the person with a fixed term (10 years?), then at the end of the term there should be a "job interview"-like process where it is determined if this person has brought enough value. If they succeed hand them a Green Card. Employers should still help them get the initial H-1B to show they have a job and that their credentials are credible. But after that the employee alone should hold the H-1B and be allowed to jump ship if they're unfairly treated or poorly compensated (after all the point of H-1B was never to get CHEAP labour, it was to get GOOD labour). The fixed term also gives them more personal security, without the threat of being kicked out with little notice.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  10+ years before a green card? Yeesh. That’s an outrageously long time to wait for permanent resident status.
  - aeontech 9y ago
    The US immigration system is notoriously backed up. Even family-based green card processing are backlogged by 5-6 years last I’ve heard. It’s a perverse situation where people affected have no power to request any changes or improvements, and people who have power to do so, are not affected in the least, so there is no real incentive to improve anything.
    - ll931110 9y ago
      In addition, some people who have succeeded in the green card lottery actually oppose any change that makes immigration situation better. Maybe that's "us vs them" mentality?
    - uiri 9y ago
      Employment based applications are current for people from most countries. The big exceptions are Chinese, Filipino and Indian immigrants. There is a 2-3 year wait for 4th category Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. Given the possible qualifications for this category, I suspect that these are mostly immigrants subject to child abuse, neglect or abandonment within the US. Immediate relatives (spouses and minor children) of US citizens can always get a green card. I think that this process is fairly quick. The family based process looks much more backlogged. If you're a brother, sister, or married (adult?) child of a US citizen, you will be stuck waiting for at least a decade. If you're an unmarried adult child of a US citizen or green card holder, you're looking at a 5-6 year wait unless you're Filipino (10+ year wait) or Mexican (20+ year wait). If you're the spouse of a green card holder, the wait is "only" 1-2 years. https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citizen https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citize...
briandear 9y ago
Isn’t the purpose of the visa for a company to fill a hard to fill position? If that’s the case, it doesn’t make sense to give that visa to some random worker since the purpose is for a business to fill a specific role for which there is no suitable American. H1B is not an immigrant visa. It’s a temporary visa. Also pretty much everywhere in Asia has the same kind of visa and it’s always tied to the employer. This kind of visa isn’t some uniquely American outlier.
- tedivm 9y ago
  While that's great in theory what it actually does is suppress wages of US citizens. By having a separate class of "indentured servants" who have no choice but to work for the specific company or they'll be deported they are removing leverage from the labor market that would otherwise force the company to pay a more solid wage. Combine that with the fact that companies can easily find ways to claim that there are no suitable American's available for the role (even when there clearly are, they're just more expensive) and you have a system which is ripe for exploitation. If the claim that there is no suitable American for the specific job then it shouldn't matter who the employee is. Either the skills are available in the existing market, and thus any employer can find someone, or those skills are in more demand than there is supply and all companies are likely to have a shortage. Allowing H1-B's to transfer from one job to another easily would solve a lot of the issues that has come up with the program. It would make is to the wage suppression techniques would no longer apply, making the system more fair to both US citizens and highly skilled foreign workers.
bhickey 9y ago
We should also start allocating H-1Bs through a salary auction rather than by lottery. It'd put an end to body shops.
raverbashing 9y ago
Also the lottery is a bandage due to the fact that TCS and other "IT companies" applies for hundreds of visas and doesn't care how many of them come true as opposed to companies that want to hire one or two specific professionals but can't. The number of lottery tickets one application gets should be proportional to the salary (for example, 1 ticket for every 10k salary after 80k/yr)
brazzledazzle 9y ago
I suspect there’s a great deal of lobbying and support for weakening or strengthening it but not much for reforming it.
neeleshs 9y ago
About "indentured servants" - there is always a choice - I'm specifically talking about H1b workers and not people who are running away from their home countries for their lives. The choice is not to play this game and go back. Of course there are consequences, but its all about the mindset and staying away from building one's life/mindset around "h1b -> greencard -> citizenship". For me, it is one possible outcome in my life.
british_india 9y ago
I so wish the US government would do the right thing and abolish the H1B visa. The American taxpayers and citizens owe nothing whatsoever to the international engineer community. We should not have to care about your situation in this indefensible government program. It has been used to undermine the wages of domestic American engineers, what ever their ethnicity. Somehow, Indian engineers have got this idea that the American economy owes them a job. If you are an Indian-American engineer, meaning one who has set down permanent roots in the United States, then you would understand how inappropriate it is having this group of people come in and undermine the status of domestic engineers, those who have to pay property taxes for the house as they have bought, those who vote in national elections because they are citizens, those who do not seek to game the US economy, only to send their money home to India or wherever. In short, though I abhor Donald Trump, I am delighted with every step he takes to dismantle the H1B visa program. If you come from India, then fix the Indian economy. Don't try to steal jobs from people with actual skin in the United States.

by rtpg 9y ago

immgrnt 9y ago

The Tech giants like, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. will never let that happen.

tedivm 9y ago
I don't think that's the case. Right now a ton of the H1-B visa's are given to various IT contracting companies, which use them to suppress wages. Those companies know that their people can't easily leave (and wouldn't be qualified for lots of other companies anyways), and so they can pay them less than they would US citizens. The bigger tech companies aren't using the program to suppress wages though, they're using it to bring in highly skilled employees. For example, there is a ton of hiring in the AI field and grabbing up foreign workers who are skilled in this area is a huge economic advantage for the US. The tech companies want these people, not some dude who took a three month course and is now "qualified" to work on a helpdesk. It's in the best interest of these tech companies to reform the H1-B program to make it more viable for these highly skilled workers. Unfortunately the big fear right now is that any reform attempts will be used by the current administration to crack down on all H1-B holders instead of simply reforming the system so it fits the original purpose.

always_good 9y ago

When I worked for Amazon, I felt bad for the people working there on visas. They never felt like they could say no when pressured into working through the weekend. After uprooting your family and bringing them to the States, you have zero bargaining power. It's a pretty dark system.

ma2rten 9y ago
I am on an H1-B visa. I would say no to working on weekends. Changing jobs is actually relatively painless with an H1-B visa. The only risk is that you have to find a new job in relatively short amount of time if would get fired.
- immgrnt 9y ago
  I'm on H1B and in the backlog for past 10 years. I'll soon be 50 years old. If I lose my job, my resume will not even get shortlisted at this age
- chrisper 9y ago
  You can say no, because in the worst case you would "only" have to go back to Germany. But what about people who are from countries like Pakistan etc.? They would rather work on weekends than to have to go back.
oh_sigh 9y ago
I worked at amazon with a number of H1Bs and they were never asked to work on weekends AFAIK(and I get notifications for commits into our repo and never particularly noticed any weekend activity).
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

Someone1234 9y ago

That would be a huge improvement. Frankly the whole original point of H-1B was to bring in awesome people and encourage them to stay if they showed they brought enough value. It should, as you said, be attached to the person with a fixed term (10 years?), then at the end of the term there should be a "job interview"-like process where it is determined if this person has brought enough value. If they succeed hand them a Green Card. Employers should still help them get the initial H-1B to show they have a job and that their credentials are credible. But after that the employee alone should hold the H-1B and be allowed to jump ship if they're unfairly treated or poorly compensated (after all the point of H-1B was never to get CHEAP labour, it was to get GOOD labour). The fixed term also gives them more personal security, without the threat of being kicked out with little notice.

jacobolus 9y ago
10+ years before a green card? Yeesh. That’s an outrageously long time to wait for permanent resident status.
- aeontech 9y ago
  The US immigration system is notoriously backed up. Even family-based green card processing are backlogged by 5-6 years last I’ve heard. It’s a perverse situation where people affected have no power to request any changes or improvements, and people who have power to do so, are not affected in the least, so there is no real incentive to improve anything.
  - ll931110 9y ago
    In addition, some people who have succeeded in the green card lottery actually oppose any change that makes immigration situation better. Maybe that's "us vs them" mentality?
  - uiri 9y ago
    Employment based applications are current for people from most countries. The big exceptions are Chinese, Filipino and Indian immigrants. There is a 2-3 year wait for 4th category Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. Given the possible qualifications for this category, I suspect that these are mostly immigrants subject to child abuse, neglect or abandonment within the US. Immediate relatives (spouses and minor children) of US citizens can always get a green card. I think that this process is fairly quick. The family based process looks much more backlogged. If you're a brother, sister, or married (adult?) child of a US citizen, you will be stuck waiting for at least a decade. If you're an unmarried adult child of a US citizen or green card holder, you're looking at a 5-6 year wait unless you're Filipino (10+ year wait) or Mexican (20+ year wait). If you're the spouse of a green card holder, the wait is "only" 1-2 years. https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/visabulletin-jan-18 https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citizen https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/immediate-relative-us-citize...

briandear 9y ago

Isn’t the purpose of the visa for a company to fill a hard to fill position? If that’s the case, it doesn’t make sense to give that visa to some random worker since the purpose is for a business to fill a specific role for which there is no suitable American. H1B is not an immigrant visa. It’s a temporary visa. Also pretty much everywhere in Asia has the same kind of visa and it’s always tied to the employer. This kind of visa isn’t some uniquely American outlier.

tedivm 9y ago
While that's great in theory what it actually does is suppress wages of US citizens. By having a separate class of "indentured servants" who have no choice but to work for the specific company or they'll be deported they are removing leverage from the labor market that would otherwise force the company to pay a more solid wage. Combine that with the fact that companies can easily find ways to claim that there are no suitable American's available for the role (even when there clearly are, they're just more expensive) and you have a system which is ripe for exploitation. If the claim that there is no suitable American for the specific job then it shouldn't matter who the employee is. Either the skills are available in the existing market, and thus any employer can find someone, or those skills are in more demand than there is supply and all companies are likely to have a shortage. Allowing H1-B's to transfer from one job to another easily would solve a lot of the issues that has come up with the program. It would make is to the wage suppression techniques would no longer apply, making the system more fair to both US citizens and highly skilled foreign workers.

bhickey 9y ago

We should also start allocating H-1Bs through a salary auction rather than by lottery. It'd put an end to body shops.

raverbashing 9y ago

Also the lottery is a bandage due to the fact that TCS and other "IT companies" applies for hundreds of visas and doesn't care how many of them come true as opposed to companies that want to hire one or two specific professionals but can't. The number of lottery tickets one application gets should be proportional to the salary (for example, 1 ticket for every 10k salary after 80k/yr)

brazzledazzle 9y ago

I suspect there’s a great deal of lobbying and support for weakening or strengthening it but not much for reforming it.

neeleshs 9y ago

About "indentured servants" - there is always a choice - I'm specifically talking about H1b workers and not people who are running away from their home countries for their lives. The choice is not to play this game and go back. Of course there are consequences, but its all about the mindset and staying away from building one's life/mindset around "h1b -> greencard -> citizenship". For me, it is one possible outcome in my life.

british_india 9y ago

I so wish the US government would do the right thing and abolish the H1B visa. The American taxpayers and citizens owe nothing whatsoever to the international engineer community. We should not have to care about your situation in this indefensible government program. It has been used to undermine the wages of domestic American engineers, what ever their ethnicity. Somehow, Indian engineers have got this idea that the American economy owes them a job. If you are an Indian-American engineer, meaning one who has set down permanent roots in the United States, then you would understand how inappropriate it is having this group of people come in and undermine the status of domestic engineers, those who have to pay property taxes for the house as they have bought, those who vote in national elections because they are citizens, those who do not seek to game the US economy, only to send their money home to India or wherever. In short, though I abhor Donald Trump, I am delighted with every step he takes to dismantle the H1B visa program. If you come from India, then fix the Indian economy. Don't try to steal jobs from people with actual skin in the United States.