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In several instances being honest has cost me socially. There doesn't seem to be a solution that doesn't ultimately result in rejection. Unless ofcourse you're

In several instances being honest has cost me socially. There doesn't seem to be a solution that doesn't ultimately result in rejection. Unless ofcourse you're willing to lie.

blattimwind 9y ago
Being able to convey the various types of lies is an important part of social interaction. If you can't or won't people dislike you, because you are not giving them the answers they want.
nordsieck 9y ago
People pretty quickly learn whether or not "blameless retrospectives" are actually blameless. There are a number of examples of corporate culture that is enforced from the top down where being honest is rewarded. The most extreme is probably Bridgewater.
- chongli 9y ago
  I have a friend who worked at Bridgewater. It sounded to me like a psychopathic cult. He didn't stay very long.
agumonkey 9y ago
That's what I said on the article comment. There's a medium reference of gray honesty. The people not wanting honesty are probably scared about some previous negative event that led them to hide some things. Society converged onto the idea of different degrees of honesty. Probably for a reason.
- guest 9y ago
  Honesty (right or wrong) is black and white. It's the context versus standpoint that lets you decide what is good and bad in any given situation. Semantically correcting you: Society converged onto the idea that there is right and wrong in divulging different degrees of honesty.
jondubois 9y ago
Recently I tried to help someone who I had known for a few years and who I respected then as soon as I did this, they turned on me and put me in a really difficult position. The irony is that this is someone who claims to pride themselves on their higher moral values. From now on, I'm going to be extremely cautious with people who present themselves as idealistic. Maybe it's also the sign of a manipulative psychopath. Our society is littered with psychopaths these days. So much so that even those who aren't psychopaths are forced to pretend to be psychopaths just so that they can fit in. For example in elite colleges/fraternities, they have some pretty twisted initiation rites... This is essentially institutionalized psychopathy. You have to prove yourself to be devoid of moral fibre just to fit in.
- drdeadringer 9y ago
  I recently read 'Quantum Night' by Robert J Sawyer, which explores psychopaths, people with an "inner life/monologue", and "philosopher zombies" -- people who don't have such an inner monologue and therefore are fairly manipulatable. Part of the book's setting is that most people lack an inner monologue, a fair amount of people are psychopaths, and few people are "normal" non-psychopaths with inner monologues by a ratio of 4:2:1. Even if you don't enjoy science fiction, it's an interesting read.
  - akvadrako 9y ago
    It's an interesting question - how many people do have those inner monologues? I would recommend "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" if you're interested in this stuff. It's non-fiction but it's basically a story.
  - scatters 9y ago
    A "true" p-zombie would believe and claim that they have an inner monologue, and thus would be no more or less easy to manipulate than a "normal" person. It may well be a good book, but it's an abuse of terminology to suggest that p-zombies are distinguishable from normal people by external characteristics and behavior.
ravenstine 9y ago
I don't know the details of your experiences, but I've learned to not consider that kind of rejection to be a bad thing. Rather than try to please everyone and be mediocre(and unmemorable), I would polarize people so I can know which people might become real friends and weed out those who wouldn't accept me for who I am. A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to act out a personality, and I don't mind that. Most people are a waste of time. That's not to say that I never lie, but I keep my lies relatively harmless. 90% of the few lies I tell are really lies by omission, and the remaining are just exaggerations around true stories. People just enjoy a good story, and it's my job to make those stories entertaining.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > so I can know which people might become real friends and weed out those who wouldn't accept me for who I am There is a healthy balance between full conformity and full renegade. Rejection is a social signal. You shouldn’t automatically accept it. But it shouldn’t be automatically thrown out, either. “Who you are” is fluid.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    >“Who you are” is fluid. // This hasn't been my experience, the opposite in fact. How we act is entirely changeable, however.

In several instances being honest has cost me socially. There doesn't seem to be a solution that doesn't ultimately result in rejection. Unless ofcourse you're willing to lie.

blattimwind 9y ago

Being able to convey the various types of lies is an important part of social interaction. If you can't or won't people dislike you, because you are not giving them the answers they want.

nordsieck 9y ago

People pretty quickly learn whether or not "blameless retrospectives" are actually blameless. There are a number of examples of corporate culture that is enforced from the top down where being honest is rewarded. The most extreme is probably Bridgewater.

chongli 9y ago
I have a friend who worked at Bridgewater. It sounded to me like a psychopathic cult. He didn't stay very long.

agumonkey 9y ago

That's what I said on the article comment. There's a medium reference of gray honesty. The people not wanting honesty are probably scared about some previous negative event that led them to hide some things. Society converged onto the idea of different degrees of honesty. Probably for a reason.

guest 9y ago
Honesty (right or wrong) is black and white. It's the context versus standpoint that lets you decide what is good and bad in any given situation. Semantically correcting you: Society converged onto the idea that there is right and wrong in divulging different degrees of honesty.

jondubois 9y ago

Recently I tried to help someone who I had known for a few years and who I respected then as soon as I did this, they turned on me and put me in a really difficult position. The irony is that this is someone who claims to pride themselves on their higher moral values. From now on, I'm going to be extremely cautious with people who present themselves as idealistic. Maybe it's also the sign of a manipulative psychopath. Our society is littered with psychopaths these days. So much so that even those who aren't psychopaths are forced to pretend to be psychopaths just so that they can fit in. For example in elite colleges/fraternities, they have some pretty twisted initiation rites... This is essentially institutionalized psychopathy. You have to prove yourself to be devoid of moral fibre just to fit in.

drdeadringer 9y ago
I recently read 'Quantum Night' by Robert J Sawyer, which explores psychopaths, people with an "inner life/monologue", and "philosopher zombies" -- people who don't have such an inner monologue and therefore are fairly manipulatable. Part of the book's setting is that most people lack an inner monologue, a fair amount of people are psychopaths, and few people are "normal" non-psychopaths with inner monologues by a ratio of 4:2:1. Even if you don't enjoy science fiction, it's an interesting read.
- akvadrako 9y ago
  It's an interesting question - how many people do have those inner monologues? I would recommend "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" if you're interested in this stuff. It's non-fiction but it's basically a story.
- scatters 9y ago
  A "true" p-zombie would believe and claim that they have an inner monologue, and thus would be no more or less easy to manipulate than a "normal" person. It may well be a good book, but it's an abuse of terminology to suggest that p-zombies are distinguishable from normal people by external characteristics and behavior.

ravenstine 9y ago

I don't know the details of your experiences, but I've learned to not consider that kind of rejection to be a bad thing. Rather than try to please everyone and be mediocre(and unmemorable), I would polarize people so I can know which people might become real friends and weed out those who wouldn't accept me for who I am. A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to act out a personality, and I don't mind that. Most people are a waste of time. That's not to say that I never lie, but I keep my lies relatively harmless. 90% of the few lies I tell are really lies by omission, and the remaining are just exaggerations around true stories. People just enjoy a good story, and it's my job to make those stories entertaining.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> so I can know which people might become real friends and weed out those who wouldn't accept me for who I am There is a healthy balance between full conformity and full renegade. Rejection is a social signal. You shouldn’t automatically accept it. But it shouldn’t be automatically thrown out, either. “Who you are” is fluid.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  >“Who you are” is fluid. // This hasn't been my experience, the opposite in fact. How we act is entirely changeable, however.