45 ms·

First 100 miles on my E-Bike

246 points by yilunzh 9y ago

eesmith 9y ago
"Most of the commercial E-Bike uses 250W or 350W motors, because that’s what the European specs are. While that amount of power is able to achieve 20MPH range, it does take its time to get there. In the US, with the open roads, that’s simply not enough power to keep up with traffic. Quite frankly, they still feel like a plain bicycle and it’s a bit boring to ride. Higher adoption require more power." As I understand it, the EU standard says there's supposed to be no power assist past 25km, which is about 16mh. That is, for e-bikes which don't require a license. I agree. If you want a more powerful e-bike, you should have a license.
- foepys 9y ago
  At least in Germany it's also a matter of insurance. If your motor-assisted bike goes faster than 25 km/h you need insurance and a license plate.
- k__ 9y ago
  Aren't the >16mph bikes sold in the US too?
- yilunzh 9y ago
  Yeah, in the US, my understanding is that the regulation is much looser relative to the rest of the world. You can have a maximum of 750W with a top speed of 28 MPH without pedal assist, which in my view is plenty fast for a bike. The problem is that because US is such a small market for EBike that most are imported with European specs. In the US with straight and open roads, they just aren't fast enough
  - cjensen 9y ago
    No. In the US the top speed is 20mph [1]. The author's bike is not street legal. It's classified as a motorcycle under US and Arizona law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#United_S...
- erric 9y ago
  I have an ebike with 500 watt motor and I generally love it. That is the way it works, you need a license, plates and insurance for more powerful ebikes(Speed Pedelec Fietsen), which can go quite fast; upwards of 50kph.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  16mph is already surprisingly dangerous in crowded situations
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    I've found with mine drivers can be surprised, especially on inclines They expect you to slow to a crawl but you keep going and they find they haven't left enough room to pass.
    - patcheudor 9y ago
      This! I was a semi-professional (CAT 1/2) racer in college and routinely road in the 22 to 30+ MPH range. 30+ MPH is surprisingly easy on busy roads with a good draft coming off traffic. A day wouldn't go by while riding in the city that I didn't have a close call with a car and in fact a bus hit me once while passing me on a corner (the driver cut the corner, going over the white-line). In order to not die I did a lot of accident avoidance training and in fact this was something our team routinely pushed as part of our training. We'd focus on one particular aspect each month like learning how to crash by renting out some time at a gymnastics gym (foam pit). I can't imagine anything past 15 MPH for the general public is a safe thing based solely on the bike handling skills of the majority of the general public. I literally put hundreds of hours into developing top-level bike handling skills that 99% of the population will never reach in order to ride quickly because once you reach a certain speed threshold, the threats (drivers not expecting you) and risks (more kinetic energy between you and the ground and you and a vehicle) go up significantly.
      - u801e 9y ago
        > I can't imagine anything past 15 MPH for the general public is a safe thing based solely on the bike handling skills of the majority of the general public. It's pretty easy for most riders to get to 25 MPH or above when going downhill. That's why I take the lane in those situations and keep an eye out at every single intersection. I think a lot of the situations that you describe could be prevented by taking the lane (riding between the center and left tiretrack position of the lane you're in) to discourage car and bus/truck drivers from passing you when it's not safe to do so. It will also make you more visible to passing traffic as well as traffic at intersections.
- u801e 9y ago
  > While that amount of power is able to achieve 20MPH range, it does take its time to get there. In the US, with the open roads, that’s simply not enough power to keep up with traffic. If you're talking about keeping up with traffic going more than 35 MPH, then the e-bike should have its brakes upgraded. I've gone down steeper hills before on my conventional bike at speeds up to 35 mph. With my cantilever rim brakes, it takes some distance to stop (quite a bit more than a car since you're effectively limited to a single wheel and a smaller contact patch relative to a car). So if you have an e-bike that could keep up with 35 to 40 mph traffic, you'll still have to allow more distance to brake and leave plenty of following distance.
WA 9y ago
I have put about 3,000km on my E-bike in the last 1.5 years. It's limited to 25km/h, because then I don't need a license, it's fast enough for city traffic (mostly in bike lanes anyways) and I get to tow a trailer for my kid. Biggest advantage: Hills don't exist for me. We live in a city with quite a few hills and day care is about 70-100m below our appartment. Doing this trip twice a day with its 15% slope would take way longer and exhaust me, before the day even started. The way downhill to day care is now something like 10 minutes and back up 11 minutes. Biggest disadvantage: If you drive on mostly flat terrain, there's no real benefit – it might even slow you down. I get my regular bike to 25km/h easily. An E-Bike accelerates until it hits 25km/h and then it's just a damn heavy bike (17-20kg) that is slower than a regular bike (if you're a somewhat fit person). Anyways, I love the E-Bike for the simple fact that I go almost anywhere by bike, can take my kid with me and don't have to think about any hills at all.
- Brakenshire 9y ago
  I've read about motorized doping in bike races, with motors hidden inside the gearing, I wonder whether anyone's thought about this sort of thing for consumer bikes, and what sort of benefit you could get for, say, 1kg or half a kg of extra weight. E-bikes at the moment seem to have reconciled themselves to being twice the weight of ordinary bikes.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    Something like this: https://www.vivax-assist.com/en/product/vivax-assist/vivax-assist_4-0.php https://www.vivax-assist.com/en/product/vivax-assist/vivax-a... I think the problem is range, you won't be able to hide much battery, the one on my bike weighs 6LBs and is quite bulky. In reality it doesn't really matter because the motor will more than offset the extra drag and weight of a heavy bike.
    - ufo 9y ago
      Can you pedal and use the motor at the same time in a regular ebike? I think what the parent posters want to be able to turn off the motor completely.
mindB 9y ago
Author seems to think an internal drivetrain for a bike would be more reliable. Maybe somebody more mechanical can chime in, but my understanding was that the opposite was true: only reason cars have to use an internal drivetrain is for cooling and external ones are generally more reliable?
- CompelTechnic 9y ago
  External drivetrains are exposed to dirt and debris, which wears down the bearing faces quickly. There are certain bicycles that use partially enclosed chains and sprockets for which chain maintenance is greatly reduced.
  - username223 9y ago
    Bearing faces? Most bikes have sealed bearings these days, so there's no need to overhaul your bearings after riding in the rain. The chain and cogs need some cleaning and lube, but modern dry chain lube also makes that much less onerous.
    - reportingsjr 9y ago
      Just because bearings are sealed doesn't mean debris can't get inside of them. This is particularly a problem for bottom brackets bearings since they are so large (more area for stuff to sneak in) and because it is easy to force material inside of them when spraying a bike off with water.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  One of the problems with external drivechains on bicycles is that they're exposed to all sorts of harsh elements like rain, mud, and road salt in winter. Even ignoring that, unless you have good parts and you're really on top of your maintenance and constant adjustment, it's pretty easy to have the chain slip or not engage properly on the chainring/cogset when shifting.
- mitchtbaum 9y ago
  This looks like an interesting approach. Perhaps there's a better, universal way to do it: Nuseti mountain bike features a sealed drivetrain - New Atlas https://newatlas.com/nuseti-inner-drive-system-mountain-bike/32914/ https://newatlas.com/nuseti-inner-drive-system-mountain-bike...
CydeWeys 9y ago
I'm surprised the author spent so much money building on top of a base bike of such low quality. That department store bike is what bike snobs would call a "bicycle-shaped object". You certainly shouldn't not be cheaping out on the actual bicycle for an e-bike, as you're putting the bike (and particularly the brakes) through forces they were not properly designed for. The author even admits such: > The brakes are often too soft to handle continuous elevated speed. What ends up happening is that I spend more money overtime to upgrade the bike to my desired state. So far I spent about $1500, including parts and tools, this is accounting for a fairly cheap used bike on craigslist ($200). Had I bought a new bike, I would have had to spend probably close to $1900. To make it exactly the way I want it, I estimate that I have to spend an additional $800 to get install IGH, bigger brakes, and more efficient tires with less rolling resistance. Frankly, the author's setup just sounds dangerous. The several-$K all-in-one bicycles that they refused to get on grounds of cost are expensive because they are actually built to handle the rigors of e-bike usage, and have incredibly useful features like hydraulic disc brakes. The brakes on that department store bike are "disc" brakes, but they're certainly not hydraulic, or even good, at that price point.
- username223 9y ago
  This. For the $1500 the author spent, he could have bought a decent bike instead of strapping a motor on a $200 piece of cast-iron junk. Plus, a 1000-watt motor is ridiculous: that's the kind of power generated by a pro sprinter, and over twice what a pro climber generates on average. A 100-watt boost would be enough of an advantage to make most hills easy, and would probably weigh and cost far less.
  - jordache 9y ago
    > $200 piece of cast-iron junk. He used an alu bike... mechanical disc brakes worked for a decade before hydraulics.
    - username223 9y ago
      > He used an alu bike... My bad -- the name "IRON HORSE" threw me off. Still, the thing supposedly weighs 37.75 lbs., which is terrible for a bike. For $1500, he could get something with much better parts weighing 20-25 lbs.
LogicX 9y ago
I bought a Pedego electric bike this summer to replace a car. I work from home, and there are many stores, restaurants, my Dr, etc. within a 30min e-bike ride, so we tried this experiment. It's working out rather well in Myrtle Beach, SC. My bike did cost me over $3k, however I too went through the process of evaluating what it would cost to build my own. aconsidering my weight (300lbs) The Pedego Stretch was one of the few bikes designed to handle that weight, and has the largest battery in the Pedego lineup. I've been happy with my purchase (including 0% APR financing for 1 year - making it a cheaper monthly payment than the lease I traded in - and that cost goes to $0 this coming summer). It definitely opened up possibilities beyond a standard bike, and removed the feeling of being 'trapped' while working from home with no car while my wife has it at work.
simonebrunozzi 9y ago
e-Bike prices are a scam. An e-bike can't possibly cost thousands of dollars, when components only add about $100-$120 to the total cost. Until prices go down significantly, I am refusing to buy one.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Not sure why this is getting downvoted when TFA says that e-bikes here typically cost 6-10 times what they do in China.
jmull 9y ago
The laws around e-bikes in the US can be a deterrent. E.g.: [The Murky Legality of E-Bikes](https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/02/the-murky-legality-of-e-bikes/426969/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/02/the-murky-legality-of...) The second paragraph gives you the flavor of it: > Under federal law, an electric bike with a maximum assisted speed under 20 miles per hour can be sold as a bicycle, not a motor vehicle. Under New York state law, riders would need to register these as they would a motorcycle, moped, or car. But there’s no clear way to register them. Because of this regulatory patchwork, e-bikes are legal to sell as bikes anywhere in the U.S. but effectively illegal to ride in New York, since they can’t be registered as motor vehicles.
- noonespecial 9y ago
  I actually worry about the "something must be done" crowd cajoling lawmakers into lazily shoehorning electric bikes into the "motorcycle" category and erasing much of their advantages to own as a bicycle. This happened with boats here as my little plastic kayak with a tiny electric assist has to be registered and taxed as if it was a full sized bass fishing boat with a v8.
  - jdietrich 9y ago
    Many e-bikes are perilously close to motorcycles, with similar power and top speed to a 50cc motor scooter. Brushless motors and lithium batteries can put out a phenomenal amount of power and torque. There's a line between "bicycle with electric assist" and "electric motorcycle with vestigial pedals" - I see an awful lot of the latter these days.
    - u801e 9y ago
      I would hope that they're equipped with disc brakes at a minimum. Wheel rim brakes on a conventional bicycle will slowly wear down the rim, but even when riding regularly, should last for quite a few years. On an e-bike with the faster speeds and greater braking needs, it may shorten the life of the wheels significantly.
  - 9y ago
johnbender 9y ago
> My third favorite thing is that I can get to work in basically the same amount of time as driving. On my E-Bike, it takes 22 minutes to get to work (7.5 miles). It takes me 15 minutes to drive there. I live about 6 miles from where I work in Los Angeles. I ride my bike (not an E-bike) in three or four times a week. It takes me 25 minutes on average. By contrast, it takes me at least 35 minutes to drive, not including time to park and walk to the office. I ride on neighborhood roads most of the way for safety, I have to do some personal cleanup when I get there and Los Angeles is particularly bad where traffic is concerned. With all that in mind, it's still worth considering for others in a similar situation.
jordache 9y ago
I still think the opportunity cost of not having a car is greater than whatever you pay to make it instantly available, should you want to take that trip during poor weather, or sufficient distance to make the ebike non applicable. Unless you are content with the daily patterns that are constraint by the range of your e-bike.
- Lio 9y ago
  If your ebike is a Brompton or some other kind of folder you can of course fold it up really easily and use public transport to extend your range.
  - jordache 9y ago
    that's also assuming from your house to your final destination, the combination of battery range, leg strength, and public transportation is sufficiently diverse to get you where you want to go. I live near the mountains, and you need a vehicle to go into the mountains. riding an e-bike into the mountains and then relying on muscle power to move the heavy bike is not realistic.
- lmm 9y ago
  A parking space where I live (London) would cost 1100/month. I find it very hard to imagine getting that much value out of a car - what would I ever use it for? I mean sure it would make it easier to make a spontaneous trip hundreds of miles while carrying lots of luggage for some reason, but how often do I want to do that?
  - jordache 9y ago
    well when you live in a dense urban environment, you are already prioritizing certain things above having a car.
waytogo 9y ago
I don't grok e-bikes. I like them and I'd like to get one but I just don't know how I will manage the charging. I am livinig in a big city and have no garage and no wall socket in front of my street door. And 100% of all destinations I ride to don't have wall sockets for charging neither. So, I would need to carry every time the heavy battery upstairs (3 floors)? I am anyway always full-loaded with bags or whatever and don't want to carry every-time this stupid battery as well. Then, the really beautiful e-bikes have an integrated battery in the frame, a bit like the iPhones. How should this now work?? I carry the 17-20kg bike upstairs every time? Ok, only if you have a house with a garage in some suburb you can ride those bikes but then you are usually so far way from the city center that you need a car again. As a final note: These bikes are so much heavier (17kg and up) and I am wondering if it's that much more effort to ride a light 10kg bike without any electrical motor. So, I am really curious about the real use case of e-bikes. Edit: Why the downvote?
- cesis 9y ago
  You can use bike's motor when pushing it up the stairs so you don't have to carry it.
- alfla 9y ago
  My battery is easily removable and has a handle. When you are riding a bike you usually don't carry stuff that you have to use your hands to carry. I always have a backpack. In any case I always have at least one hand available to carry other stuff. I charge the battery in my entry at home every day, but I could probably charge it only once or twice a week and that would still be sufficient.
- mertd 9y ago
  Let's say you weigh 70kg. The 7kg lighter bike only saves you less than 10% weight overall but a 300W motor easily multiplies your power.
- chrisseaton 9y ago
  > Edit: Why the downvote? Maybe it's because you've said you don't understand e-bikes for the ridiculous reason that they don't fit your very specific living situation like what kind of housing you have, which floor you live on and how many bags you're prepared to carry. Other people have different living situations, and e-bikes suit them. It's not a mystery.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
seniorsassycat 9y ago
I also completed my first 100 miles on an ebike this past week, on a bike I bought two weeks ago. I splurged and bought a top of the line pre-built[0]. Call it a mid life crisis. It is a class three bike. The electric motor will only activate under 28mph. There is no throttle, the motor multiplies your pedal force by 55-200% depending on the setting (eco-turbo). I can beat the bus on a few bus routes. I use to take the bus if the route had too many hills but now I maintain 17mph without getting winded on steep hills. An electric shortens and flattens any bike trip, I'm never sloughing up a hill, and I'm never asking myself if it's worth riding the bike. Even if bus or uber is faster it wont be twice as fast. Biking is still fun and still a workout, I'm a out of breath with sore legs after a ride. I'm sometimes self-conscious about 'cheating'. I'm not sure how fast I should be going on a mixed use bike path. I'm afraid this bike will get stolen one day, even with a ulock and cable. If not stolen, vandalized. I think that electric bikes could be the future of city transit if the price comes down. Secondary problems include theft and weather. [0] https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electric-hybrid-bikes/crossrip/crossrip/p/1373000-2018/ https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electr...
- rckclmbr 9y ago
  I also bought a top of the line pre-built (https://www.stromerbike.com/en_US/e-bikes/st2.html https://www.stromerbike.com/en_US/e-bikes/st2.html) almost 2 years and 7500 miles later, I have zero regrets. My goal is to break even for car cost for the price ($0.55 cents per mile). It hasn't happened yet, but I would already call it worth it due to the peace of mind of not having to sit in traffic every day.
excalibur 9y ago
> If the ride is so great and economics so favorable, why haven’t I seen more adoption here in US and Canada? 1. What's an E-Bike?
- excalibur 9y ago
  I can't believe the number of downvotes this has gotten. It's a very large contributing factor that was overlooked by the author. Get over yourselves.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    You could have been less snarky about it.
ozten 9y ago
Daily, year-round bike commuter in Seattle - I think electronic bikes are awesome for the hills in Seattle for folks new to biking. I'm concerned with the possibility of this increasing accidents, however. My commute is mostly on roads with cars. I don't ride as fast as I can. Driving defensively, you want to be able to break and avoid a collision. I witnessed a really bad accident, where a car t-boned a cyclist. This has cured me of riding as fast as I can into work. I see a lot of normal bikers as well as e-bikers going faster than is safe and I think e-bikes contribute to riders putting themselves into jeopardy.
- alfla 9y ago
  Also year-round commuter in Norway w/ an e-bike. I agree that the increased speed increases the probability of an accident. I've personally had several close calls vs cars in roundabouts and on bike lanes (!). I also have a motorcycle license and I've been riding motorcycles for about 5 years in traffic. A lot of the risks are very similar to the ones you experience on an e-bike in my opinion. Edit: The best tip I can give to two-wheel riders is to increase visibility as much as possible, and be observant of cars. Lights and bright colored clothing helps a lot.
mojoe 9y ago
The author mentions that ebikes in China run around $500. Has anyone here tried importing one of those models?
- rurban 9y ago
  I've imported my european bike for $800. It lasted quite a while, until I tried to fix a flat tire in the Lance Anderson bike shop in Austin, TX. They've got coffee, but have no idea about e-bikes. They broke it (short circuit), but thanksfully there was an e-bike repair in Austin. They could repair it to 95%. There' was still some leakage. I think there's one repair shop every 1000 miles. There's none in Houston. It was stolen after 2 years, which was expected. My imported bike was far better than any $1000-2000 bikes in the states. They are all a scam.
analog31 9y ago
>>> If the ride is so great and economics so favorable, why haven’t I seen more adoption here in US and Canada? The author's answers to this question focus solely on the bike technology itself. This is a common thread in a lot of discussions about cycling: If we only built the right bike, more people would ride. This is usually followed by a CAD rendering of the perfect bike, that looks like nobody would want to ride it. I don't think it's the bike. I think that there are a lot of cyclists who are simply not candidates for e-bikes because riding under their own power is part of the attraction. I'm one of those people. A friend of mine who loves his e-bike finally gave up trying to understand why I don't want one. So you have to reach the same people who were deterred from cycling in the past for reasons good and bad. The motor addresses the issue of effort, but not safety, weather, or a variety of other factors, including the fact that driving a car is fun for a lot of people. The e-bike could produce a marginal uptick in cycling, in the short term, but not a revolution.
- jpollock 9y ago
  I commute 38m/day, and tried an e-bike. Since it was speed limited to 19mph, it didn't save me any time compared to self-powered riding, and it provided considerably less exercise - about the same as walking. I had to return the bike after a week. :)
  - analog31 9y ago
    Admittedly, 19 mph would be a considerable increase for me. ;-)
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  The biggest attraction it me would be, not getting all sweaty. But at the same time, wouldn't it be better for me if I trained my body until I didn't get all sweaty on a regular bike?
  - raguuu 9y ago
    Yes it would, if you really care about the planet and climate change you and I need to sacrifice something. Getting fit while helping doesn't hurt.
chx 9y ago
I swear the best commuter ebike is the Revelo Flex (https://www.revelo.ca/pages/flex-electric-folding-bike https://www.revelo.ca/pages/flex-electric-folding-bike). It's like someone shrank a penny farthing and put a motor in the back wheel: the front wheel is 20" and has pedals attached to it (so you can help the motor when uphill), the back is 16" and has the motor inside (torque!). You can order it with bike ABS as well (https://www.bikerumor.com/2012/11/27/hands-on-sabs-antilock-bicycle-brake-pads/ https://www.bikerumor.com/2012/11/27/hands-on-sabs-antilock-...). Since it's folding and rolling folded you can easily carry it on public transit. It's only 15kg which is just about the lightest possible (those batteries are heavy). There's no chain to maintain, no grease, nothing. Just hop on, zip along and stop when the situation warrants -- the stopping distance of the SABS pads is nothing short of incredible (I have been rearended by another cyclist once when I fully engaged them to avoid a collision with a car -- normally when riding in a bike lane I don't grip them like my life depends on them because I know how they behave).
- Too 9y ago
  With such a small front wheel and your feet on the front wheel, how do you climb a curb? That just looks like designed for a OTB. That funny one foot down maneuver kickbike-riders do to jump might work but doesn't look easy.
  - chx 9y ago
    Vancouver, BC is a very accessible city so the curbs have ramps at crossroads. And we have a really nice bike lane network. I never had this problem.
NelsonMinar 9y ago
I worry about the safety of 20-30MPH and trying to stay with car traffic. e-bikes make more sense to me as an assist for riding at normal bike-like speeds than as a way to ride at moped speeds.
- yilunzh 9y ago
  I should clarify that on the bike path, I generally do stay in the 15-20 MPH range, as there are many pedestrians traveling at low speed. On the road however, staying at typical bike like speed actually feel more dangerous to me. It kind of feels like driving on the highway at 45MPH when everyone is going 75MPH and a bit nerve wracking.
amiga-workbench 9y ago
I built mine last year to get to and from work, 1000W motor and a 10AH battery, cost me just under a grand and its paid for itself many times over. I don't need that power all the time, but there is a rather steep hill on my way home which would be a challenge to get up on a less powerful motor.
dm319 9y ago
> In order for E-Bike to really take off, I think there is a need to design it from the ground up. Instead of building the motor and battery pack around the frame, the right way to design an E-Bike is to build the frame around the motor and the battery pack. That's a motorbike. So is an e-bike really, but regulations allow it to be classified as something different so that you don't need a license. EDIT: should clarify I enjoyed reading the article, and I think electric motorcycles and e-bikes have a bright future. I use a motorbike for my daily commute; non-riders should realise that they are far more vulnerable on two wheels. If you realise this and ride appropriately I think it is a reasonably ok thing to do. Having a bit of power actually makes things safer in an urban environment as it means cars aren't pushed into attempting dangerous overtaking maneuvers.
- samstave 9y ago
  That’s a good point.. But I don’t care about that point, what I care about is efficiency in the design. Just make the best damn, longest reaching, cheapest version that you can while sustaining your business with something people actually want.
JKCalhoun 9y ago
> Having now gone through the experience, I would definitely recommend the build route. You just get much more value for your money. And then there's the "IKEA effect". ;)
realworldview 9y ago
No insurance and a powered vehicle?
samstave 9y ago
Should have just bought a faraday bike
ricardobeat 9y ago
That attached battery would get stolen in a pinch. Not practical unless you have closed/safe parking at every destination, i.e. won't work in Europe where we mostly park on the street. I'm curious about the second picture: it looks like the motor is in the way of the pedal crank arm?
benbojangles 9y ago
Very similar to this guy's article from 2016: http://dalybulge.blogspot.co.uk/?view=magazine http://dalybulge.blogspot.co.uk/?view=magazine
pixelbill 9y ago
I purchased an E-Bike last summer as I am disabled and have difficulty walking, however I can still ride a bicycle with limited ability. This seemed like the perfect solution to getting around. I have about 300 miles on it so far, I don't use it to commute but just for recreation, but it has been a lot of fun and lets me actually get out instead of being stuck either where I am or driving. I get annoyed by the "e-bikes give you an unfair advantage" argument I hear all the time. I'm sorry, but LIFE gave YOU an unfair advantage, now that technology gives me an unfair advantage it's suddenly a problem?
cmurf 9y ago
This is a better article than I thought it would be; it's a bit scattered in that it discusses buying an ebike vs retrofitting one, and then also the user experience of being on an ebike: propensity to pedal rather than throttle, 1 gear being sufficient for flats, and 3 gears for hilly terrain, the comfort factor of biking faster when merged with traffic, and not being sweaty upon arrival when commuting. I wish there were the political capital to put in more physically separated bike infra in American cities. Sharing infrastructure flat out does not work here, we are not mature or disciplined or standardized enough in our driving competency. A huge part of this is generational, my mom is all "This traffic sucks! Rip out the trees, rip out the sidewalks, put in more road lanes!" even though she bikes once a week to go play bridge with friends, and my dad won't even get on a bike. Millennials probably would like to rip out roads and put in more public transit and bike infra, and get rid of cars. I for sure would like to get rid of death by cycling, and single occupancy vehcicles. But there really isn't the political capital right now to do anything but piecemeal approaches.
ShakataGaNai 9y ago
For the author, I'm really curious about the section "Economics of owning an E-Bike relative to car". Would you mind sharing your rough math on how you came to those numbers? The IRS rate for expensing milage is $0.54/mile which (in theory) is supposed to cover standard maintenance and fuel. However mostly it just seems really high for the bike to be $0.14/mile. My back of the envelope calculation for electricity cost is: ~$0.10 per KWHR. The battery pack is sub 1 KW so even with charging inefficiency should cost no more than $0.10 to charge. Divided by roughly 50 mile range means an electricity cost of $0.002 per mile. I could be way off, hence why I'm curious.
- Johnny555 9y ago
  I think he gets to that $0.14/mile by including the cost of the complete bike (assuming 500 charge cycles of the battery, which at 30 miles/charge should last him about 4 years with a 15 mile commute). Over those 4 years, he'll ride 15 miles/day * 253 working days/year, or 4000 miles/year, or 16000 miles. So.... $1400 / 16000 = $.09/mile He also included maintenance, so if he spends $200/year in maintenance (not unreasonable if he takes it to a bike shop for maintenance), that gets him up to $0.14/mile.
jbgreer 9y ago
I left a comment on the author's page (awaiting moderation), but I'll copy it here: if you're going to try this at home familiarize yourself with local laws. I'm all for getting more people on bikes, but some of the suggestions he makes are illegal in my state. Be aware of power limitations, braking requirements, and how the resulting vehicle would be classified (and should be labeled).
bostonbot 9y ago
I had my own ebike startup 2 years ago (Lectro). What killed it was the fact that large lithium battery packs were classified with hazmat status. This classification might have been spurred by the exploding hoverboards. Product shipping and liability became too high for profits. I would assume big box retailers have similar concerns. If the BMS in the battery had an issue, It was very difficult for the customer to ship back.
philfrasty 9y ago
I'd like to understand e-bike usage from a user perspective. Why does it appeal to a traditional biker to use an e-bike in the city (not talking cross country)? Why not „just bike“ or the opposite as in scooter/e-scooter? How come there is such a big market in between?
- detaro 9y ago
  scooter is a legally different class. E.g. in Germany you need insurance, can't go on bike paths, and a small scooter in car traffic is dangerous. vs bike: you are less exhausted/sweaty (e.g. important for the morning commute if you don't have a shower at work). Many users are older and suddenly can go up hills again. City often means lots of stopping and getting going again, which is nicer with electrical assist.
- georgeoliver 9y ago
  I recently built an ebike like the OP to commute. Up to now I would bike commute sometimes and ride my non-ebike or take transit for most non-work trips, but for work commuting there was too much extra friction -- too far, too much to carry (I work in construction) -- to bike consistently. However I enjoy biking and it's a great way to commute in my car-congested city (if I solved the friction problem). The extra watts of the ebike removes the friction.
m1keil 9y ago
Question to e-bike owners - did you have to handle any sort of negativity from non e-bike riders? Stuff like "oh you are lazy", "this is unhealthy" etc?
- ianai 9y ago
  I doubt it. E-bike is pretty much still in group.
- analog31 9y ago
  Every group has its snobs. There are also people who think that car drivers are lazy and unhealthy. I'm a conventional cyclist, but some of my friends have e-bikes. For the most part, people get along. While cyclists don't know what to expect as e-bikes get more popular, we also recognize that e-bikes provide access to cycling for a larger population. The hope is that the overall popularity of cycling will be better for everybody. There's a general observation that car drivers behave better towards cyclists as cycling gets more popular in any given locale. At least in my locale, e-bikes are arriving on the scene gradually enough, that people can have a wait-and-see attitude about how they will mix with conventional bikes as they get more popular. For now I have a laissez-faire attitude unless or until problems emerge.
- rckclmbr 9y ago
  I would show up to a group ride with cyclists. For the commute though, most single riders appreciate drafting at 25mph.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Now and then I'll get a "that's cheating" comment. To be honest I spend far more time worrying about what car drivers are going to do than an odd comment from another cyclist.
grwthckrmstr 9y ago
Here in India I see a few people cycling to work. A "few" (we have a LOT of people). I can't see adoption increase. I myself won't ride a cycle, because 1. There's way too much pollution on the roads. I'll die breathing that air 2. If I don't die breathing that air, some car or bus driver who doesn't give a shit about other people's lives and is on their phone while driving will hit me and perhaps kill me (or worse, leave me disabled for life) I want to cycle to work everyday. I want the exercise. I want to live, and to be healthy, and to protect the environment. But the flip side is, I might die.
- deskglass 9y ago
  Is 1 really all that different from driving in a car with the AC on? If I understand correctly, car filters typically only filter very large particles that would damage the engine.
  - foota 9y ago
    Your also not exerting yourself and breathing as much though, I would think.
  - Zhenya 9y ago
    Engine air and cabin air are two separate intake paths. The cabin air in modern cars is highly filtered. " Most dust filters will stop 100 percent of all particles that are 3 microns or larger in size, and 95 to 99 percent of particles 1 to 3 microns in size. The combination dust and odor filters have a layer of activated charcoal or baking soda to absorb odors and air pollutants. Some of these filters may even be lightly scented to enhance the driving experience." https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/filtration/cabin-air-filter-replacement/ https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/filtration... So yes. Being in a car with AC on is much better.
    - deskglass 9y ago
      Makes sense, thanks!
  - 9y ago
sitkack 9y ago
For those looking for a totally integrated electric bike company in North America, checkout out https://www.radpowerbikes.com/ https://www.radpowerbikes.com/ and they are less expensive than cobbling a retrofit together.
bbarn 9y ago
Logging all your e-bike miles on strava is kind of lame. Even in your screen shots you can see you're taking KOM segments that others enjoy competing for from people, and I doubt those are other e-bike users. The whole point of the site is to act as a athletics tracker, and using a motor driven cycle here undermines that.
chakalakasp 9y ago
This feels like one of those things Tesla could tackle in a heartbeat.

246 points by yilunzh 9y ago

"Most of the commercial E-Bike uses 250W or 350W motors, because that’s what the European specs are. While that amount of power is able to achieve 20MPH range, it does take its time to get there. In the US, with the open roads, that’s simply not enough power to keep up with traffic. Quite frankly, they still feel like a plain bicycle and it’s a bit boring to ride. Higher adoption require more power." As I understand it, the EU standard says there's supposed to be no power assist past 25km, which is about 16mh. That is, for e-bikes which don't require a license. I agree. If you want a more powerful e-bike, you should have a license.

foepys 9y ago
At least in Germany it's also a matter of insurance. If your motor-assisted bike goes faster than 25 km/h you need insurance and a license plate.
k__ 9y ago
Aren't the >16mph bikes sold in the US too?
yilunzh 9y ago
Yeah, in the US, my understanding is that the regulation is much looser relative to the rest of the world. You can have a maximum of 750W with a top speed of 28 MPH without pedal assist, which in my view is plenty fast for a bike. The problem is that because US is such a small market for EBike that most are imported with European specs. In the US with straight and open roads, they just aren't fast enough
- cjensen 9y ago
  No. In the US the top speed is 20mph [1]. The author's bike is not street legal. It's classified as a motorcycle under US and Arizona law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#United_S...
erric 9y ago
I have an ebike with 500 watt motor and I generally love it. That is the way it works, you need a license, plates and insurance for more powerful ebikes(Speed Pedelec Fietsen), which can go quite fast; upwards of 50kph.
agumonkey 9y ago
16mph is already surprisingly dangerous in crowded situations
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  I've found with mine drivers can be surprised, especially on inclines They expect you to slow to a crawl but you keep going and they find they haven't left enough room to pass.
  - patcheudor 9y ago
    This! I was a semi-professional (CAT 1/2) racer in college and routinely road in the 22 to 30+ MPH range. 30+ MPH is surprisingly easy on busy roads with a good draft coming off traffic. A day wouldn't go by while riding in the city that I didn't have a close call with a car and in fact a bus hit me once while passing me on a corner (the driver cut the corner, going over the white-line). In order to not die I did a lot of accident avoidance training and in fact this was something our team routinely pushed as part of our training. We'd focus on one particular aspect each month like learning how to crash by renting out some time at a gymnastics gym (foam pit). I can't imagine anything past 15 MPH for the general public is a safe thing based solely on the bike handling skills of the majority of the general public. I literally put hundreds of hours into developing top-level bike handling skills that 99% of the population will never reach in order to ride quickly because once you reach a certain speed threshold, the threats (drivers not expecting you) and risks (more kinetic energy between you and the ground and you and a vehicle) go up significantly.
    - u801e 9y ago
      > I can't imagine anything past 15 MPH for the general public is a safe thing based solely on the bike handling skills of the majority of the general public. It's pretty easy for most riders to get to 25 MPH or above when going downhill. That's why I take the lane in those situations and keep an eye out at every single intersection. I think a lot of the situations that you describe could be prevented by taking the lane (riding between the center and left tiretrack position of the lane you're in) to discourage car and bus/truck drivers from passing you when it's not safe to do so. It will also make you more visible to passing traffic as well as traffic at intersections.
u801e 9y ago
> While that amount of power is able to achieve 20MPH range, it does take its time to get there. In the US, with the open roads, that’s simply not enough power to keep up with traffic. If you're talking about keeping up with traffic going more than 35 MPH, then the e-bike should have its brakes upgraded. I've gone down steeper hills before on my conventional bike at speeds up to 35 mph. With my cantilever rim brakes, it takes some distance to stop (quite a bit more than a car since you're effectively limited to a single wheel and a smaller contact patch relative to a car). So if you have an e-bike that could keep up with 35 to 40 mph traffic, you'll still have to allow more distance to brake and leave plenty of following distance.

WA 9y ago

I have put about 3,000km on my E-bike in the last 1.5 years. It's limited to 25km/h, because then I don't need a license, it's fast enough for city traffic (mostly in bike lanes anyways) and I get to tow a trailer for my kid. Biggest advantage: Hills don't exist for me. We live in a city with quite a few hills and day care is about 70-100m below our appartment. Doing this trip twice a day with its 15% slope would take way longer and exhaust me, before the day even started. The way downhill to day care is now something like 10 minutes and back up 11 minutes. Biggest disadvantage: If you drive on mostly flat terrain, there's no real benefit – it might even slow you down. I get my regular bike to 25km/h easily. An E-Bike accelerates until it hits 25km/h and then it's just a damn heavy bike (17-20kg) that is slower than a regular bike (if you're a somewhat fit person). Anyways, I love the E-Bike for the simple fact that I go almost anywhere by bike, can take my kid with me and don't have to think about any hills at all.

Brakenshire 9y ago
I've read about motorized doping in bike races, with motors hidden inside the gearing, I wonder whether anyone's thought about this sort of thing for consumer bikes, and what sort of benefit you could get for, say, 1kg or half a kg of extra weight. E-bikes at the moment seem to have reconciled themselves to being twice the weight of ordinary bikes.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Something like this: https://www.vivax-assist.com/en/product/vivax-assist/vivax-assist_4-0.php https://www.vivax-assist.com/en/product/vivax-assist/vivax-a... I think the problem is range, you won't be able to hide much battery, the one on my bike weighs 6LBs and is quite bulky. In reality it doesn't really matter because the motor will more than offset the extra drag and weight of a heavy bike.
  - ufo 9y ago
    Can you pedal and use the motor at the same time in a regular ebike? I think what the parent posters want to be able to turn off the motor completely.

mindB 9y ago

Author seems to think an internal drivetrain for a bike would be more reliable. Maybe somebody more mechanical can chime in, but my understanding was that the opposite was true: only reason cars have to use an internal drivetrain is for cooling and external ones are generally more reliable?

CompelTechnic 9y ago
External drivetrains are exposed to dirt and debris, which wears down the bearing faces quickly. There are certain bicycles that use partially enclosed chains and sprockets for which chain maintenance is greatly reduced.
- username223 9y ago
  Bearing faces? Most bikes have sealed bearings these days, so there's no need to overhaul your bearings after riding in the rain. The chain and cogs need some cleaning and lube, but modern dry chain lube also makes that much less onerous.
  - reportingsjr 9y ago
    Just because bearings are sealed doesn't mean debris can't get inside of them. This is particularly a problem for bottom brackets bearings since they are so large (more area for stuff to sneak in) and because it is easy to force material inside of them when spraying a bike off with water.
CydeWeys 9y ago
One of the problems with external drivechains on bicycles is that they're exposed to all sorts of harsh elements like rain, mud, and road salt in winter. Even ignoring that, unless you have good parts and you're really on top of your maintenance and constant adjustment, it's pretty easy to have the chain slip or not engage properly on the chainring/cogset when shifting.
mitchtbaum 9y ago
This looks like an interesting approach. Perhaps there's a better, universal way to do it: Nuseti mountain bike features a sealed drivetrain - New Atlas https://newatlas.com/nuseti-inner-drive-system-mountain-bike/32914/ https://newatlas.com/nuseti-inner-drive-system-mountain-bike...

CydeWeys 9y ago

I'm surprised the author spent so much money building on top of a base bike of such low quality. That department store bike is what bike snobs would call a "bicycle-shaped object". You certainly shouldn't not be cheaping out on the actual bicycle for an e-bike, as you're putting the bike (and particularly the brakes) through forces they were not properly designed for. The author even admits such: > The brakes are often too soft to handle continuous elevated speed. What ends up happening is that I spend more money overtime to upgrade the bike to my desired state. So far I spent about $1500, including parts and tools, this is accounting for a fairly cheap used bike on craigslist ($200). Had I bought a new bike, I would have had to spend probably close to $1900. To make it exactly the way I want it, I estimate that I have to spend an additional $800 to get install IGH, bigger brakes, and more efficient tires with less rolling resistance. Frankly, the author's setup just sounds dangerous. The several-$K all-in-one bicycles that they refused to get on grounds of cost are expensive because they are actually built to handle the rigors of e-bike usage, and have incredibly useful features like hydraulic disc brakes. The brakes on that department store bike are "disc" brakes, but they're certainly not hydraulic, or even good, at that price point.

username223 9y ago
This. For the $1500 the author spent, he could have bought a decent bike instead of strapping a motor on a $200 piece of cast-iron junk. Plus, a 1000-watt motor is ridiculous: that's the kind of power generated by a pro sprinter, and over twice what a pro climber generates on average. A 100-watt boost would be enough of an advantage to make most hills easy, and would probably weigh and cost far less.
- jordache 9y ago
  > $200 piece of cast-iron junk. He used an alu bike... mechanical disc brakes worked for a decade before hydraulics.
  - username223 9y ago
    > He used an alu bike... My bad -- the name "IRON HORSE" threw me off. Still, the thing supposedly weighs 37.75 lbs., which is terrible for a bike. For $1500, he could get something with much better parts weighing 20-25 lbs.

LogicX 9y ago

I bought a Pedego electric bike this summer to replace a car. I work from home, and there are many stores, restaurants, my Dr, etc. within a 30min e-bike ride, so we tried this experiment. It's working out rather well in Myrtle Beach, SC. My bike did cost me over $3k, however I too went through the process of evaluating what it would cost to build my own. aconsidering my weight (300lbs) The Pedego Stretch was one of the few bikes designed to handle that weight, and has the largest battery in the Pedego lineup. I've been happy with my purchase (including 0% APR financing for 1 year - making it a cheaper monthly payment than the lease I traded in - and that cost goes to $0 this coming summer). It definitely opened up possibilities beyond a standard bike, and removed the feeling of being 'trapped' while working from home with no car while my wife has it at work.

simonebrunozzi 9y ago

e-Bike prices are a scam. An e-bike can't possibly cost thousands of dollars, when components only add about $100-$120 to the total cost. Until prices go down significantly, I am refusing to buy one.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
Not sure why this is getting downvoted when TFA says that e-bikes here typically cost 6-10 times what they do in China.

jmull 9y ago

The laws around e-bikes in the US can be a deterrent. E.g.: [The Murky Legality of E-Bikes](https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/02/the-murky-legality-of-e-bikes/426969/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/02/the-murky-legality-of...) The second paragraph gives you the flavor of it: > Under federal law, an electric bike with a maximum assisted speed under 20 miles per hour can be sold as a bicycle, not a motor vehicle. Under New York state law, riders would need to register these as they would a motorcycle, moped, or car. But there’s no clear way to register them. Because of this regulatory patchwork, e-bikes are legal to sell as bikes anywhere in the U.S. but effectively illegal to ride in New York, since they can’t be registered as motor vehicles.

noonespecial 9y ago
I actually worry about the "something must be done" crowd cajoling lawmakers into lazily shoehorning electric bikes into the "motorcycle" category and erasing much of their advantages to own as a bicycle. This happened with boats here as my little plastic kayak with a tiny electric assist has to be registered and taxed as if it was a full sized bass fishing boat with a v8.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  Many e-bikes are perilously close to motorcycles, with similar power and top speed to a 50cc motor scooter. Brushless motors and lithium batteries can put out a phenomenal amount of power and torque. There's a line between "bicycle with electric assist" and "electric motorcycle with vestigial pedals" - I see an awful lot of the latter these days.
  - u801e 9y ago
    I would hope that they're equipped with disc brakes at a minimum. Wheel rim brakes on a conventional bicycle will slowly wear down the rim, but even when riding regularly, should last for quite a few years. On an e-bike with the faster speeds and greater braking needs, it may shorten the life of the wheels significantly.
- 9y ago

johnbender 9y ago

> My third favorite thing is that I can get to work in basically the same amount of time as driving. On my E-Bike, it takes 22 minutes to get to work (7.5 miles). It takes me 15 minutes to drive there. I live about 6 miles from where I work in Los Angeles. I ride my bike (not an E-bike) in three or four times a week. It takes me 25 minutes on average. By contrast, it takes me at least 35 minutes to drive, not including time to park and walk to the office. I ride on neighborhood roads most of the way for safety, I have to do some personal cleanup when I get there and Los Angeles is particularly bad where traffic is concerned. With all that in mind, it's still worth considering for others in a similar situation.

jordache 9y ago

I still think the opportunity cost of not having a car is greater than whatever you pay to make it instantly available, should you want to take that trip during poor weather, or sufficient distance to make the ebike non applicable. Unless you are content with the daily patterns that are constraint by the range of your e-bike.

Lio 9y ago
If your ebike is a Brompton or some other kind of folder you can of course fold it up really easily and use public transport to extend your range.
- jordache 9y ago
  that's also assuming from your house to your final destination, the combination of battery range, leg strength, and public transportation is sufficiently diverse to get you where you want to go. I live near the mountains, and you need a vehicle to go into the mountains. riding an e-bike into the mountains and then relying on muscle power to move the heavy bike is not realistic.
lmm 9y ago
A parking space where I live (London) would cost 1100/month. I find it very hard to imagine getting that much value out of a car - what would I ever use it for? I mean sure it would make it easier to make a spontaneous trip hundreds of miles while carrying lots of luggage for some reason, but how often do I want to do that?
- jordache 9y ago
  well when you live in a dense urban environment, you are already prioritizing certain things above having a car.

waytogo 9y ago

I don't grok e-bikes. I like them and I'd like to get one but I just don't know how I will manage the charging. I am livinig in a big city and have no garage and no wall socket in front of my street door. And 100% of all destinations I ride to don't have wall sockets for charging neither. So, I would need to carry every time the heavy battery upstairs (3 floors)? I am anyway always full-loaded with bags or whatever and don't want to carry every-time this stupid battery as well. Then, the really beautiful e-bikes have an integrated battery in the frame, a bit like the iPhones. How should this now work?? I carry the 17-20kg bike upstairs every time? Ok, only if you have a house with a garage in some suburb you can ride those bikes but then you are usually so far way from the city center that you need a car again. As a final note: These bikes are so much heavier (17kg and up) and I am wondering if it's that much more effort to ride a light 10kg bike without any electrical motor. So, I am really curious about the real use case of e-bikes. Edit: Why the downvote?

cesis 9y ago
You can use bike's motor when pushing it up the stairs so you don't have to carry it.
alfla 9y ago
My battery is easily removable and has a handle. When you are riding a bike you usually don't carry stuff that you have to use your hands to carry. I always have a backpack. In any case I always have at least one hand available to carry other stuff. I charge the battery in my entry at home every day, but I could probably charge it only once or twice a week and that would still be sufficient.
mertd 9y ago
Let's say you weigh 70kg. The 7kg lighter bike only saves you less than 10% weight overall but a 300W motor easily multiplies your power.
chrisseaton 9y ago
> Edit: Why the downvote? Maybe it's because you've said you don't understand e-bikes for the ridiculous reason that they don't fit your very specific living situation like what kind of housing you have, which floor you live on and how many bags you're prepared to carry. Other people have different living situations, and e-bikes suit them. It's not a mystery.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

seniorsassycat 9y ago

I also completed my first 100 miles on an ebike this past week, on a bike I bought two weeks ago. I splurged and bought a top of the line pre-built[0]. Call it a mid life crisis. It is a class three bike. The electric motor will only activate under 28mph. There is no throttle, the motor multiplies your pedal force by 55-200% depending on the setting (eco-turbo). I can beat the bus on a few bus routes. I use to take the bus if the route had too many hills but now I maintain 17mph without getting winded on steep hills. An electric shortens and flattens any bike trip, I'm never sloughing up a hill, and I'm never asking myself if it's worth riding the bike. Even if bus or uber is faster it wont be twice as fast. Biking is still fun and still a workout, I'm a out of breath with sore legs after a ride. I'm sometimes self-conscious about 'cheating'. I'm not sure how fast I should be going on a mixed use bike path. I'm afraid this bike will get stolen one day, even with a ulock and cable. If not stolen, vandalized. I think that electric bikes could be the future of city transit if the price comes down. Secondary problems include theft and weather. [0] https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electric-hybrid-bikes/crossrip/crossrip/p/1373000-2018/ https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electr...

rckclmbr 9y ago
I also bought a top of the line pre-built (https://www.stromerbike.com/en_US/e-bikes/st2.html https://www.stromerbike.com/en_US/e-bikes/st2.html) almost 2 years and 7500 miles later, I have zero regrets. My goal is to break even for car cost for the price ($0.55 cents per mile). It hasn't happened yet, but I would already call it worth it due to the peace of mind of not having to sit in traffic every day.

excalibur 9y ago

> If the ride is so great and economics so favorable, why haven’t I seen more adoption here in US and Canada? 1. What's an E-Bike?

excalibur 9y ago
I can't believe the number of downvotes this has gotten. It's a very large contributing factor that was overlooked by the author. Get over yourselves.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  You could have been less snarky about it.

ozten 9y ago

Daily, year-round bike commuter in Seattle - I think electronic bikes are awesome for the hills in Seattle for folks new to biking. I'm concerned with the possibility of this increasing accidents, however. My commute is mostly on roads with cars. I don't ride as fast as I can. Driving defensively, you want to be able to break and avoid a collision. I witnessed a really bad accident, where a car t-boned a cyclist. This has cured me of riding as fast as I can into work. I see a lot of normal bikers as well as e-bikers going faster than is safe and I think e-bikes contribute to riders putting themselves into jeopardy.

alfla 9y ago
Also year-round commuter in Norway w/ an e-bike. I agree that the increased speed increases the probability of an accident. I've personally had several close calls vs cars in roundabouts and on bike lanes (!). I also have a motorcycle license and I've been riding motorcycles for about 5 years in traffic. A lot of the risks are very similar to the ones you experience on an e-bike in my opinion. Edit: The best tip I can give to two-wheel riders is to increase visibility as much as possible, and be observant of cars. Lights and bright colored clothing helps a lot.

mojoe 9y ago

The author mentions that ebikes in China run around $500. Has anyone here tried importing one of those models?

rurban 9y ago
I've imported my european bike for $800. It lasted quite a while, until I tried to fix a flat tire in the Lance Anderson bike shop in Austin, TX. They've got coffee, but have no idea about e-bikes. They broke it (short circuit), but thanksfully there was an e-bike repair in Austin. They could repair it to 95%. There' was still some leakage. I think there's one repair shop every 1000 miles. There's none in Houston. It was stolen after 2 years, which was expected. My imported bike was far better than any $1000-2000 bikes in the states. They are all a scam.

analog31 9y ago

>>> If the ride is so great and economics so favorable, why haven’t I seen more adoption here in US and Canada? The author's answers to this question focus solely on the bike technology itself. This is a common thread in a lot of discussions about cycling: If we only built the right bike, more people would ride. This is usually followed by a CAD rendering of the perfect bike, that looks like nobody would want to ride it. I don't think it's the bike. I think that there are a lot of cyclists who are simply not candidates for e-bikes because riding under their own power is part of the attraction. I'm one of those people. A friend of mine who loves his e-bike finally gave up trying to understand why I don't want one. So you have to reach the same people who were deterred from cycling in the past for reasons good and bad. The motor addresses the issue of effort, but not safety, weather, or a variety of other factors, including the fact that driving a car is fun for a lot of people. The e-bike could produce a marginal uptick in cycling, in the short term, but not a revolution.

jpollock 9y ago
I commute 38m/day, and tried an e-bike. Since it was speed limited to 19mph, it didn't save me any time compared to self-powered riding, and it provided considerably less exercise - about the same as walking. I had to return the bike after a week. :)
- analog31 9y ago
  Admittedly, 19 mph would be a considerable increase for me. ;-)
sliverstorm 9y ago
The biggest attraction it me would be, not getting all sweaty. But at the same time, wouldn't it be better for me if I trained my body until I didn't get all sweaty on a regular bike?
- raguuu 9y ago
  Yes it would, if you really care about the planet and climate change you and I need to sacrifice something. Getting fit while helping doesn't hurt.

chx 9y ago

I swear the best commuter ebike is the Revelo Flex (https://www.revelo.ca/pages/flex-electric-folding-bike https://www.revelo.ca/pages/flex-electric-folding-bike). It's like someone shrank a penny farthing and put a motor in the back wheel: the front wheel is 20" and has pedals attached to it (so you can help the motor when uphill), the back is 16" and has the motor inside (torque!). You can order it with bike ABS as well (https://www.bikerumor.com/2012/11/27/hands-on-sabs-antilock-bicycle-brake-pads/ https://www.bikerumor.com/2012/11/27/hands-on-sabs-antilock-...). Since it's folding and rolling folded you can easily carry it on public transit. It's only 15kg which is just about the lightest possible (those batteries are heavy). There's no chain to maintain, no grease, nothing. Just hop on, zip along and stop when the situation warrants -- the stopping distance of the SABS pads is nothing short of incredible (I have been rearended by another cyclist once when I fully engaged them to avoid a collision with a car -- normally when riding in a bike lane I don't grip them like my life depends on them because I know how they behave).

Too 9y ago
With such a small front wheel and your feet on the front wheel, how do you climb a curb? That just looks like designed for a OTB. That funny one foot down maneuver kickbike-riders do to jump might work but doesn't look easy.
- chx 9y ago
  Vancouver, BC is a very accessible city so the curbs have ramps at crossroads. And we have a really nice bike lane network. I never had this problem.

NelsonMinar 9y ago

I worry about the safety of 20-30MPH and trying to stay with car traffic. e-bikes make more sense to me as an assist for riding at normal bike-like speeds than as a way to ride at moped speeds.

yilunzh 9y ago
I should clarify that on the bike path, I generally do stay in the 15-20 MPH range, as there are many pedestrians traveling at low speed. On the road however, staying at typical bike like speed actually feel more dangerous to me. It kind of feels like driving on the highway at 45MPH when everyone is going 75MPH and a bit nerve wracking.

amiga-workbench 9y ago

I built mine last year to get to and from work, 1000W motor and a 10AH battery, cost me just under a grand and its paid for itself many times over. I don't need that power all the time, but there is a rather steep hill on my way home which would be a challenge to get up on a less powerful motor.

dm319 9y ago

> In order for E-Bike to really take off, I think there is a need to design it from the ground up. Instead of building the motor and battery pack around the frame, the right way to design an E-Bike is to build the frame around the motor and the battery pack. That's a motorbike. So is an e-bike really, but regulations allow it to be classified as something different so that you don't need a license. EDIT: should clarify I enjoyed reading the article, and I think electric motorcycles and e-bikes have a bright future. I use a motorbike for my daily commute; non-riders should realise that they are far more vulnerable on two wheels. If you realise this and ride appropriately I think it is a reasonably ok thing to do. Having a bit of power actually makes things safer in an urban environment as it means cars aren't pushed into attempting dangerous overtaking maneuvers.

samstave 9y ago
That’s a good point.. But I don’t care about that point, what I care about is efficiency in the design. Just make the best damn, longest reaching, cheapest version that you can while sustaining your business with something people actually want.

JKCalhoun 9y ago

> Having now gone through the experience, I would definitely recommend the build route. You just get much more value for your money. And then there's the "IKEA effect". ;)

realworldview 9y ago

No insurance and a powered vehicle?

samstave 9y ago

Should have just bought a faraday bike

ricardobeat 9y ago

That attached battery would get stolen in a pinch. Not practical unless you have closed/safe parking at every destination, i.e. won't work in Europe where we mostly park on the street. I'm curious about the second picture: it looks like the motor is in the way of the pedal crank arm?

benbojangles 9y ago

Very similar to this guy's article from 2016: http://dalybulge.blogspot.co.uk/?view=magazine http://dalybulge.blogspot.co.uk/?view=magazine

pixelbill 9y ago

I purchased an E-Bike last summer as I am disabled and have difficulty walking, however I can still ride a bicycle with limited ability. This seemed like the perfect solution to getting around. I have about 300 miles on it so far, I don't use it to commute but just for recreation, but it has been a lot of fun and lets me actually get out instead of being stuck either where I am or driving. I get annoyed by the "e-bikes give you an unfair advantage" argument I hear all the time. I'm sorry, but LIFE gave YOU an unfair advantage, now that technology gives me an unfair advantage it's suddenly a problem?

cmurf 9y ago

This is a better article than I thought it would be; it's a bit scattered in that it discusses buying an ebike vs retrofitting one, and then also the user experience of being on an ebike: propensity to pedal rather than throttle, 1 gear being sufficient for flats, and 3 gears for hilly terrain, the comfort factor of biking faster when merged with traffic, and not being sweaty upon arrival when commuting. I wish there were the political capital to put in more physically separated bike infra in American cities. Sharing infrastructure flat out does not work here, we are not mature or disciplined or standardized enough in our driving competency. A huge part of this is generational, my mom is all "This traffic sucks! Rip out the trees, rip out the sidewalks, put in more road lanes!" even though she bikes once a week to go play bridge with friends, and my dad won't even get on a bike. Millennials probably would like to rip out roads and put in more public transit and bike infra, and get rid of cars. I for sure would like to get rid of death by cycling, and single occupancy vehcicles. But there really isn't the political capital right now to do anything but piecemeal approaches.

ShakataGaNai 9y ago

For the author, I'm really curious about the section "Economics of owning an E-Bike relative to car". Would you mind sharing your rough math on how you came to those numbers? The IRS rate for expensing milage is $0.54/mile which (in theory) is supposed to cover standard maintenance and fuel. However mostly it just seems really high for the bike to be $0.14/mile. My back of the envelope calculation for electricity cost is: ~$0.10 per KWHR. The battery pack is sub 1 KW so even with charging inefficiency should cost no more than $0.10 to charge. Divided by roughly 50 mile range means an electricity cost of $0.002 per mile. I could be way off, hence why I'm curious.

Johnny555 9y ago
I think he gets to that $0.14/mile by including the cost of the complete bike (assuming 500 charge cycles of the battery, which at 30 miles/charge should last him about 4 years with a 15 mile commute). Over those 4 years, he'll ride 15 miles/day * 253 working days/year, or 4000 miles/year, or 16000 miles. So.... $1400 / 16000 = $.09/mile He also included maintenance, so if he spends $200/year in maintenance (not unreasonable if he takes it to a bike shop for maintenance), that gets him up to $0.14/mile.

jbgreer 9y ago

I left a comment on the author's page (awaiting moderation), but I'll copy it here: if you're going to try this at home familiarize yourself with local laws. I'm all for getting more people on bikes, but some of the suggestions he makes are illegal in my state. Be aware of power limitations, braking requirements, and how the resulting vehicle would be classified (and should be labeled).

bostonbot 9y ago

I had my own ebike startup 2 years ago (Lectro). What killed it was the fact that large lithium battery packs were classified with hazmat status. This classification might have been spurred by the exploding hoverboards. Product shipping and liability became too high for profits. I would assume big box retailers have similar concerns. If the BMS in the battery had an issue, It was very difficult for the customer to ship back.

philfrasty 9y ago

I'd like to understand e-bike usage from a user perspective. Why does it appeal to a traditional biker to use an e-bike in the city (not talking cross country)? Why not „just bike“ or the opposite as in scooter/e-scooter? How come there is such a big market in between?

detaro 9y ago
scooter is a legally different class. E.g. in Germany you need insurance, can't go on bike paths, and a small scooter in car traffic is dangerous. vs bike: you are less exhausted/sweaty (e.g. important for the morning commute if you don't have a shower at work). Many users are older and suddenly can go up hills again. City often means lots of stopping and getting going again, which is nicer with electrical assist.
georgeoliver 9y ago
I recently built an ebike like the OP to commute. Up to now I would bike commute sometimes and ride my non-ebike or take transit for most non-work trips, but for work commuting there was too much extra friction -- too far, too much to carry (I work in construction) -- to bike consistently. However I enjoy biking and it's a great way to commute in my car-congested city (if I solved the friction problem). The extra watts of the ebike removes the friction.

m1keil 9y ago

Question to e-bike owners - did you have to handle any sort of negativity from non e-bike riders? Stuff like "oh you are lazy", "this is unhealthy" etc?

ianai 9y ago
I doubt it. E-bike is pretty much still in group.
analog31 9y ago
Every group has its snobs. There are also people who think that car drivers are lazy and unhealthy. I'm a conventional cyclist, but some of my friends have e-bikes. For the most part, people get along. While cyclists don't know what to expect as e-bikes get more popular, we also recognize that e-bikes provide access to cycling for a larger population. The hope is that the overall popularity of cycling will be better for everybody. There's a general observation that car drivers behave better towards cyclists as cycling gets more popular in any given locale. At least in my locale, e-bikes are arriving on the scene gradually enough, that people can have a wait-and-see attitude about how they will mix with conventional bikes as they get more popular. For now I have a laissez-faire attitude unless or until problems emerge.
rckclmbr 9y ago
I would show up to a group ride with cyclists. For the commute though, most single riders appreciate drafting at 25mph.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Now and then I'll get a "that's cheating" comment. To be honest I spend far more time worrying about what car drivers are going to do than an odd comment from another cyclist.

grwthckrmstr 9y ago

Here in India I see a few people cycling to work. A "few" (we have a LOT of people). I can't see adoption increase. I myself won't ride a cycle, because 1. There's way too much pollution on the roads. I'll die breathing that air 2. If I don't die breathing that air, some car or bus driver who doesn't give a shit about other people's lives and is on their phone while driving will hit me and perhaps kill me (or worse, leave me disabled for life) I want to cycle to work everyday. I want the exercise. I want to live, and to be healthy, and to protect the environment. But the flip side is, I might die.

deskglass 9y ago
Is 1 really all that different from driving in a car with the AC on? If I understand correctly, car filters typically only filter very large particles that would damage the engine.
- foota 9y ago
  Your also not exerting yourself and breathing as much though, I would think.
- Zhenya 9y ago
  Engine air and cabin air are two separate intake paths. The cabin air in modern cars is highly filtered. " Most dust filters will stop 100 percent of all particles that are 3 microns or larger in size, and 95 to 99 percent of particles 1 to 3 microns in size. The combination dust and odor filters have a layer of activated charcoal or baking soda to absorb odors and air pollutants. Some of these filters may even be lightly scented to enhance the driving experience." https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/filtration/cabin-air-filter-replacement/ https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/filtration... So yes. Being in a car with AC on is much better.
  - deskglass 9y ago
    Makes sense, thanks!
- 9y ago

sitkack 9y ago

For those looking for a totally integrated electric bike company in North America, checkout out https://www.radpowerbikes.com/ https://www.radpowerbikes.com/ and they are less expensive than cobbling a retrofit together.

bbarn 9y ago

Logging all your e-bike miles on strava is kind of lame. Even in your screen shots you can see you're taking KOM segments that others enjoy competing for from people, and I doubt those are other e-bike users. The whole point of the site is to act as a athletics tracker, and using a motor driven cycle here undermines that.

chakalakasp 9y ago

This feels like one of those things Tesla could tackle in a heartbeat.