6 ms·

I've thought similarly about people who are feeling the threat of being swatted informing local authorities of the possibility but that presents another problem

by scoggs 9y ago

I've thought similarly about people who are feeling the threat of being swatted informing local authorities of the possibility but that presents another problem. The police aren't going to 100% trust people calling in to say, "Hey, if anybody calls you to say I'm doing something illegal I am calling you to tell you right now that I'd never do anything like that!" and it makes me feel that forewarning them might pose more problem than not. The entire situation is sticky and grimy and I agree with Krebs that the punishment for causing a swatting incident needs to be a felony in all 50 states.

baddox 9y ago
I fear going to the police preemptively would make the situation far worse, as it so often does.
- doktrin 9y ago
  Considering the worst case scenario when being swatted is ending up dead, I think giving them a heads up about fraud risk is sensible. Speaking to cops without a lawyer is a bad idea in many cases, but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
- Panino 9y ago
  Do you have any citations for this claim? Brian Krebs did just this, visiting the local police to inform them of the potential for a swatting attack. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-for-cowards/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-fo... Then when he was later SWATted: "One of the officers asked if it was okay to enter my house, and I said sure. Then an officer who was dressed more like a supervisor approached me and asked if I was the guy who had filed a police report about this eventuality about six months earlier." For all we know it could have saved his life.
  - ISL 9y ago
    From the krebsonsecurity link, it appears that Krebs was first confronted by officers with firearms drawn and handcuffed before meeting with the supervisor.
    - Panino 9y ago
      Right. The point is that someone who appeared to be a supervisor, in other words in charge of the swat team, was apparently already aware of the chance that this was a case of swatting. Going into the situation, that knowledge likely made the swat team's approach more professional and safe, thereby possibly saving Krebs' life.
      - kbenson 9y ago
        Yes, agreed. Just because he was handcuffed for a period doesn't mean they weren't trying to be careful and already under the impression it would be a false alarm. That doesn't mean they let their guard down and don't take it seriously, which depending on the reason they are there may mean securing the area and people in it.
  - ClassyJacket 9y ago
    "For all we know it could have saved his life." It says something pretty sad about American society that your assumption is that calling the Police will result in them murdering an innocent person.
    - cookiecaper 9y ago
      It's hyperbole. Millions of citizens interact with police on a daily basis and don't get shot. That obviously doesn't excuse the cases where it occurs, but it's not like this happens on a significant number of calls.
      - kakarot 9y ago
        Once we define what kind of encounters to sample, specifically encounters involving police breaking into your home, it's no longer a ratio of 1:1000000+ that you will have a bad encounter. If I were told the chances of me dying from jumping off a cliff were 1:1000, I still wouldn't jump that cliff.
    - dgcoffman 9y ago
      Says quite a lot more about American police, I'd say.
    - kbenson 9y ago
      Well, what it says is definitely not great, but in this specific case it's probably a bit less about the police overreaction and a bit more about the prevalence of guns and how to safely proceed when notified about extremely volatile and dangerous situations, such as a hostage situation with an armed individual that is exhibiting signs of mental instability (whether true or not). How the police respond may be weighted too much towards a specific action, but it's important to consider this is the actual reason that SWAT teams exist. I would definitely be interested in knowing how situations like this are handled in other countries, and the success rates involved. My suspicion is that in countries without the equivalent of SWAT some scenarios don't have an adequate response, while others that we use SWAT somewhat inappropriately for that are handled better. I suspect a less military approach is better overall, but an entire lack of that option isn't beneficial either. I don't think it's hard to argue that there's far too much police militarization in the U.S. right now.
  - mtgx 9y ago
    I think you just proved his point. How insane is it that you have to pre-empt SWATing now? The only reason this is even a problem is because (too) many people know that the police is so trigger-happy these days that all it takes is say something dangerous-sounding about someone else and there's a not insignificant chance that the police will murder them. That's how out of control the "Serve and Protect" police has gotten in the US.
  - baddox 9y ago
    My claim was that I fear it, which is true, although I cannot provide a citation. I could certainly point to many instances of people preemptively calling police (i.e. not reporting a crime) and the police showing up and doing horrible things.
sjg007 9y ago
If you go to the station and give your id, make a statement and they verify where you live and who you are?
- simonh 9y ago
  Do they really have a process in place to check if addresses are on a 'do not SWAT list' before sending in the cops? How is such a list maintained and verified? Who approves changes to it? How long do addresses stay on it and what's the process for removing them? There is no such thing as a 'do not SWAT' list, and there is no such process in place.
  - ggggtez 9y ago
    The hope isn't that they never show up at all, it's that that show up aware it's possible that the accused people are actually the victims and they need to be careful not to over react. Whether the warning pays off is still mostly unknown ground.
  - sjg007 9y ago
    Yes you might be surprised but the police keep notes/tabs on the community. If you call something in or otherwise inform them you will be in the system which would alert them.
    - scoggs 9y ago
      In the heat of the moment (police suddenly getting a dispatch for a murder / hostage situation at a local residence) I hardly believe anyone involved is going to have the time to thumb through notes like that. Maybe in a really small rural community but I can't imagine there would be much chance of things going properly in any sort of larger municipality or city.
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        The dispatcher will type in your address into their computer and will immediately see and read these notes.
kstrauser 9y ago
I see what you're saying, but I think it could stave off a lot if a cop visited your house, looked around, and verified that you're not Walter White. If the 911 call came in, I'd hope the local PD would be a bit more likely to think "isn't that the nice scoggs guy we visited last week and not the bomb maker the person on the phone is claiming?" I'm sure they'd still come and investigate, but hopefully not with guns blazing.

by scoggs 9y ago

baddox 9y ago

I fear going to the police preemptively would make the situation far worse, as it so often does.

doktrin 9y ago
Considering the worst case scenario when being swatted is ending up dead, I think giving them a heads up about fraud risk is sensible. Speaking to cops without a lawyer is a bad idea in many cases, but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
Panino 9y ago
Do you have any citations for this claim? Brian Krebs did just this, visiting the local police to inform them of the potential for a swatting attack. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-for-cowards/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-fo... Then when he was later SWATted: "One of the officers asked if it was okay to enter my house, and I said sure. Then an officer who was dressed more like a supervisor approached me and asked if I was the guy who had filed a police report about this eventuality about six months earlier." For all we know it could have saved his life.
- ISL 9y ago
  From the krebsonsecurity link, it appears that Krebs was first confronted by officers with firearms drawn and handcuffed before meeting with the supervisor.
  - Panino 9y ago
    Right. The point is that someone who appeared to be a supervisor, in other words in charge of the swat team, was apparently already aware of the chance that this was a case of swatting. Going into the situation, that knowledge likely made the swat team's approach more professional and safe, thereby possibly saving Krebs' life.
    - kbenson 9y ago
      Yes, agreed. Just because he was handcuffed for a period doesn't mean they weren't trying to be careful and already under the impression it would be a false alarm. That doesn't mean they let their guard down and don't take it seriously, which depending on the reason they are there may mean securing the area and people in it.
- ClassyJacket 9y ago
  "For all we know it could have saved his life." It says something pretty sad about American society that your assumption is that calling the Police will result in them murdering an innocent person.
  - cookiecaper 9y ago
    It's hyperbole. Millions of citizens interact with police on a daily basis and don't get shot. That obviously doesn't excuse the cases where it occurs, but it's not like this happens on a significant number of calls.
    - kakarot 9y ago
      Once we define what kind of encounters to sample, specifically encounters involving police breaking into your home, it's no longer a ratio of 1:1000000+ that you will have a bad encounter. If I were told the chances of me dying from jumping off a cliff were 1:1000, I still wouldn't jump that cliff.
  - dgcoffman 9y ago
    Says quite a lot more about American police, I'd say.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Well, what it says is definitely not great, but in this specific case it's probably a bit less about the police overreaction and a bit more about the prevalence of guns and how to safely proceed when notified about extremely volatile and dangerous situations, such as a hostage situation with an armed individual that is exhibiting signs of mental instability (whether true or not). How the police respond may be weighted too much towards a specific action, but it's important to consider this is the actual reason that SWAT teams exist. I would definitely be interested in knowing how situations like this are handled in other countries, and the success rates involved. My suspicion is that in countries without the equivalent of SWAT some scenarios don't have an adequate response, while others that we use SWAT somewhat inappropriately for that are handled better. I suspect a less military approach is better overall, but an entire lack of that option isn't beneficial either. I don't think it's hard to argue that there's far too much police militarization in the U.S. right now.
- mtgx 9y ago
  I think you just proved his point. How insane is it that you have to pre-empt SWATing now? The only reason this is even a problem is because (too) many people know that the police is so trigger-happy these days that all it takes is say something dangerous-sounding about someone else and there's a not insignificant chance that the police will murder them. That's how out of control the "Serve and Protect" police has gotten in the US.
- baddox 9y ago
  My claim was that I fear it, which is true, although I cannot provide a citation. I could certainly point to many instances of people preemptively calling police (i.e. not reporting a crime) and the police showing up and doing horrible things.

sjg007 9y ago

If you go to the station and give your id, make a statement and they verify where you live and who you are?

simonh 9y ago
Do they really have a process in place to check if addresses are on a 'do not SWAT list' before sending in the cops? How is such a list maintained and verified? Who approves changes to it? How long do addresses stay on it and what's the process for removing them? There is no such thing as a 'do not SWAT' list, and there is no such process in place.
- ggggtez 9y ago
  The hope isn't that they never show up at all, it's that that show up aware it's possible that the accused people are actually the victims and they need to be careful not to over react. Whether the warning pays off is still mostly unknown ground.
- sjg007 9y ago
  Yes you might be surprised but the police keep notes/tabs on the community. If you call something in or otherwise inform them you will be in the system which would alert them.
  - scoggs 9y ago
    In the heat of the moment (police suddenly getting a dispatch for a murder / hostage situation at a local residence) I hardly believe anyone involved is going to have the time to thumb through notes like that. Maybe in a really small rural community but I can't imagine there would be much chance of things going properly in any sort of larger municipality or city.
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      The dispatcher will type in your address into their computer and will immediately see and read these notes.

kstrauser 9y ago

I see what you're saying, but I think it could stave off a lot if a cop visited your house, looked around, and verified that you're not Walter White. If the 911 call came in, I'd hope the local PD would be a bit more likely to think "isn't that the nice scoggs guy we visited last week and not the bomb maker the person on the phone is claiming?" I'm sure they'd still come and investigate, but hopefully not with guns blazing.