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My mom rented out a concrete slab in her backyard in August to a few guys living in a RV. They have access to the garage which has water and a full bathroom. An

My mom rented out a concrete slab in her backyard in August to a few guys living in a RV. They have access to the garage which has water and a full bathroom. And I ran electric and Ethernet to their RV. They are not supposed to come into the main house without knocking. They do not have keys. It is like pulling teeth to get them to pay rent and utilities. They hit one of the peoples car that lives inside the main house and refused to fix the broken taillight. The part is 40 bucks and I can replace it. But they refuse. And this has escalated over the last few weeks. The police have been called three times over the RV guys behavior. I told my mom to get a restraining order to get them out fast but for some reason refuses. So the eviction process has started. And they were not happy. I was there the other day and was getting the space heater in the bathroom going so the pipes don't burst and overheard them saying that when they leave they should, "SWAT the bitch". And my mom rents out a room to a forty year old guy on disability that they say has a mental capacity of a 12 year old. He is somewhat impulsive. If the cops poured in he would not understand what is going on and would probably get shot. I went with my mom to the police station to tell them what I overheard. So hopefully before they send a SWAT team a note pops up that they were warned about this and it is probably false.

scoggs 9y ago
I've thought similarly about people who are feeling the threat of being swatted informing local authorities of the possibility but that presents another problem. The police aren't going to 100% trust people calling in to say, "Hey, if anybody calls you to say I'm doing something illegal I am calling you to tell you right now that I'd never do anything like that!" and it makes me feel that forewarning them might pose more problem than not. The entire situation is sticky and grimy and I agree with Krebs that the punishment for causing a swatting incident needs to be a felony in all 50 states.
- baddox 9y ago
  I fear going to the police preemptively would make the situation far worse, as it so often does.
  - doktrin 9y ago
    Considering the worst case scenario when being swatted is ending up dead, I think giving them a heads up about fraud risk is sensible. Speaking to cops without a lawyer is a bad idea in many cases, but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
  - Panino 9y ago
    Do you have any citations for this claim? Brian Krebs did just this, visiting the local police to inform them of the potential for a swatting attack. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-for-cowards/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-fo... Then when he was later SWATted: "One of the officers asked if it was okay to enter my house, and I said sure. Then an officer who was dressed more like a supervisor approached me and asked if I was the guy who had filed a police report about this eventuality about six months earlier." For all we know it could have saved his life.
    - ISL 9y ago
      From the krebsonsecurity link, it appears that Krebs was first confronted by officers with firearms drawn and handcuffed before meeting with the supervisor.
      - Panino 9y ago
        Right. The point is that someone who appeared to be a supervisor, in other words in charge of the swat team, was apparently already aware of the chance that this was a case of swatting. Going into the situation, that knowledge likely made the swat team's approach more professional and safe, thereby possibly saving Krebs' life.
        kbenson 9y ago
        Yes, agreed. Just because he was handcuffed for a period doesn't mean they weren't trying to be careful and already under the impression it would be a false alarm. That doesn't mean they let their guard down and don't take it seriously, which depending on the reason they are there may mean securing the area and people in it.
- sjg007 9y ago
  If you go to the station and give your id, make a statement and they verify where you live and who you are?
  - simonh 9y ago
    Do they really have a process in place to check if addresses are on a 'do not SWAT list' before sending in the cops? How is such a list maintained and verified? Who approves changes to it? How long do addresses stay on it and what's the process for removing them? There is no such thing as a 'do not SWAT' list, and there is no such process in place.
    - ggggtez 9y ago
      The hope isn't that they never show up at all, it's that that show up aware it's possible that the accused people are actually the victims and they need to be careful not to over react. Whether the warning pays off is still mostly unknown ground.
    - sjg007 9y ago
      Yes you might be surprised but the police keep notes/tabs on the community. If you call something in or otherwise inform them you will be in the system which would alert them.
      - scoggs 9y ago
        In the heat of the moment (police suddenly getting a dispatch for a murder / hostage situation at a local residence) I hardly believe anyone involved is going to have the time to thumb through notes like that. Maybe in a really small rural community but I can't imagine there would be much chance of things going properly in any sort of larger municipality or city.
        ryanlol 9y ago
        The dispatcher will type in your address into their computer and will immediately see and read these notes.
- kstrauser 9y ago
  I see what you're saying, but I think it could stave off a lot if a cop visited your house, looked around, and verified that you're not Walter White. If the 911 call came in, I'd hope the local PD would be a bit more likely to think "isn't that the nice scoggs guy we visited last week and not the bomb maker the person on the phone is claiming?" I'm sure they'd still come and investigate, but hopefully not with guns blazing.
baddox 9y ago
That is beyond horrifying, but as soon as I read that you went to the police I had a reflexive feeling of dread. That is what is so terrifying about police abuse. Who do you call. What can anyone do.
cabaalis 9y ago
Having done work on 911 call-taking systems, I can tell you that they do have the capability of placing notes on properties. Things like "large dog in backyard" or "known gun owner." That way they can inform responding officers as best they can. Talking to the police might not be enough, because that report won't make it to dispatchers who need the info. I don't know the proper procedure to get a note placed on the property.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Talking to police is the first step. Not sure if he mentioned this in the article, but Brian Krebs himself has done it, since he was getting swatted with some frequency on account of his reporting.
- mbrameld 9y ago
  They are very likely to note perceived threats to an officer's safety, as that helps them both avoid injuring an officer and helps cover their ass if they decide to kill something innocent. They are NOT likely to note things like you mention because it open them up to liability. If they have a note on your property saying someone is likely to make a fake call about it, and then someone does and they show up and decide to kill something innocent anyway, it's going to look a little worse for them if there's a note telling them that.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - cabaalis 9y ago
    I agree they are probably going to be hesitant to put a note on there saying something like "property owner is afraid of fake swat calls" or something like that. But they do indeed put notes like the exact ones I mentioned in my comment above, as I've seen them.
goldenkey 9y ago
That's what happens when you rent out concrete slabs... "Be the change you wish you see." "Friends don't let friends rent out concrete slabs"
- DrScump 9y ago
  I think this comment is unhelpful, but it does raise the point that landlords doing unsafe/illegal things like that electrical feed (I assume that's not to code) does put a landlord in a vulnerable position: "you mess with us and we'll report you, too."
  - hitekker 9y ago
    The person you replied to did not explain why not to rent concrete slabs, and so did not raise the point you're pretending it raised. In general, it's unwise to agree with those who shroud their violence-fantasies in truisms. Also, since english is not that person's first language.
    - goldenkey 9y ago
      I didn't explicitly say why renting concrete slabs is a bad thing because I think most HNers can understand without needing additional explanation
hitekker 9y ago
Just to be sure: have you heard of or looked into police violence in your area? After that execution in Arizona[1], I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some of your local officers, depending on where you are in the country, are more interested in getting some action and shooting "criminals", than helping you and your mom. The thought of wannabe-action-heroes or, god-forbid, psychopaths like Charles Langley, getting ready to tear through my family's property, terrifies me. [1]: http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-police-involved-shooting-bodycam-philip-brailsford-not-guilty-daniel-shaver/ http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-police-involved-shooting-...

scoggs 9y ago

I've thought similarly about people who are feeling the threat of being swatted informing local authorities of the possibility but that presents another problem. The police aren't going to 100% trust people calling in to say, "Hey, if anybody calls you to say I'm doing something illegal I am calling you to tell you right now that I'd never do anything like that!" and it makes me feel that forewarning them might pose more problem than not. The entire situation is sticky and grimy and I agree with Krebs that the punishment for causing a swatting incident needs to be a felony in all 50 states.

baddox 9y ago
I fear going to the police preemptively would make the situation far worse, as it so often does.
- doktrin 9y ago
  Considering the worst case scenario when being swatted is ending up dead, I think giving them a heads up about fraud risk is sensible. Speaking to cops without a lawyer is a bad idea in many cases, but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
- Panino 9y ago
  Do you have any citations for this claim? Brian Krebs did just this, visiting the local police to inform them of the potential for a swatting attack. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-for-cowards/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/03/the-world-has-no-room-fo... Then when he was later SWATted: "One of the officers asked if it was okay to enter my house, and I said sure. Then an officer who was dressed more like a supervisor approached me and asked if I was the guy who had filed a police report about this eventuality about six months earlier." For all we know it could have saved his life.
  - ISL 9y ago
    From the krebsonsecurity link, it appears that Krebs was first confronted by officers with firearms drawn and handcuffed before meeting with the supervisor.
    - Panino 9y ago
      Right. The point is that someone who appeared to be a supervisor, in other words in charge of the swat team, was apparently already aware of the chance that this was a case of swatting. Going into the situation, that knowledge likely made the swat team's approach more professional and safe, thereby possibly saving Krebs' life.
      - kbenson 9y ago
        Yes, agreed. Just because he was handcuffed for a period doesn't mean they weren't trying to be careful and already under the impression it would be a false alarm. That doesn't mean they let their guard down and don't take it seriously, which depending on the reason they are there may mean securing the area and people in it.
sjg007 9y ago
If you go to the station and give your id, make a statement and they verify where you live and who you are?
- simonh 9y ago
  Do they really have a process in place to check if addresses are on a 'do not SWAT list' before sending in the cops? How is such a list maintained and verified? Who approves changes to it? How long do addresses stay on it and what's the process for removing them? There is no such thing as a 'do not SWAT' list, and there is no such process in place.
  - ggggtez 9y ago
    The hope isn't that they never show up at all, it's that that show up aware it's possible that the accused people are actually the victims and they need to be careful not to over react. Whether the warning pays off is still mostly unknown ground.
  - sjg007 9y ago
    Yes you might be surprised but the police keep notes/tabs on the community. If you call something in or otherwise inform them you will be in the system which would alert them.
    - scoggs 9y ago
      In the heat of the moment (police suddenly getting a dispatch for a murder / hostage situation at a local residence) I hardly believe anyone involved is going to have the time to thumb through notes like that. Maybe in a really small rural community but I can't imagine there would be much chance of things going properly in any sort of larger municipality or city.
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        The dispatcher will type in your address into their computer and will immediately see and read these notes.
kstrauser 9y ago
I see what you're saying, but I think it could stave off a lot if a cop visited your house, looked around, and verified that you're not Walter White. If the 911 call came in, I'd hope the local PD would be a bit more likely to think "isn't that the nice scoggs guy we visited last week and not the bomb maker the person on the phone is claiming?" I'm sure they'd still come and investigate, but hopefully not with guns blazing.

baddox 9y ago

That is beyond horrifying, but as soon as I read that you went to the police I had a reflexive feeling of dread. That is what is so terrifying about police abuse. Who do you call. What can anyone do.

cabaalis 9y ago

Having done work on 911 call-taking systems, I can tell you that they do have the capability of placing notes on properties. Things like "large dog in backyard" or "known gun owner." That way they can inform responding officers as best they can. Talking to the police might not be enough, because that report won't make it to dispatchers who need the info. I don't know the proper procedure to get a note placed on the property.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
Talking to police is the first step. Not sure if he mentioned this in the article, but Brian Krebs himself has done it, since he was getting swatted with some frequency on account of his reporting.
mbrameld 9y ago
They are very likely to note perceived threats to an officer's safety, as that helps them both avoid injuring an officer and helps cover their ass if they decide to kill something innocent. They are NOT likely to note things like you mention because it open them up to liability. If they have a note on your property saying someone is likely to make a fake call about it, and then someone does and they show up and decide to kill something innocent anyway, it's going to look a little worse for them if there's a note telling them that.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cabaalis 9y ago
  I agree they are probably going to be hesitant to put a note on there saying something like "property owner is afraid of fake swat calls" or something like that. But they do indeed put notes like the exact ones I mentioned in my comment above, as I've seen them.

goldenkey 9y ago

That's what happens when you rent out concrete slabs... "Be the change you wish you see." "Friends don't let friends rent out concrete slabs"

DrScump 9y ago
I think this comment is unhelpful, but it does raise the point that landlords doing unsafe/illegal things like that electrical feed (I assume that's not to code) does put a landlord in a vulnerable position: "you mess with us and we'll report you, too."
- hitekker 9y ago
  The person you replied to did not explain why not to rent concrete slabs, and so did not raise the point you're pretending it raised. In general, it's unwise to agree with those who shroud their violence-fantasies in truisms. Also, since english is not that person's first language.
  - goldenkey 9y ago
    I didn't explicitly say why renting concrete slabs is a bad thing because I think most HNers can understand without needing additional explanation

hitekker 9y ago

Just to be sure: have you heard of or looked into police violence in your area? After that execution in Arizona[1], I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some of your local officers, depending on where you are in the country, are more interested in getting some action and shooting "criminals", than helping you and your mom. The thought of wannabe-action-heroes or, god-forbid, psychopaths like Charles Langley, getting ready to tear through my family's property, terrifies me. [1]: http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-police-involved-shooting-bodycam-philip-brailsford-not-guilty-daniel-shaver/ http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-police-involved-shooting-...