4 ms·

I think that the popular idea of inherited or generational wealth is getting a fat 6 figure check when a grandparent dies, which doesn't really happen to most o

I think that the popular idea of inherited or generational wealth is getting a fat 6 figure check when a grandparent dies, which doesn't really happen to most of us. Rather, it looks like what the author describes -- a safety net that allows upper middle class kids to do things that their peers can't afford. As someone in the top quintile, you may not feel that much richer than the people in the next neighborhood over, but for a lot of folks, that dad could have said, "I'm sorry son, but I need to pay rent too." Instead, it was more of an annoyance at his son needing a handout. But these things accumulate over time, and this kid from a top-quintile family gets a better resume than his neighbor who washed dishes over the summer.

maroonblazer 9y ago
Agree. This review and the ideas behind this book are really interesting (I've not yet read it). I'm surprised though that the reviewer discounts legacy preferences at universities. Given the degree to which a well-qualified school can open up opportunities for someone this seems like a perfectly valid and effective policy proposal.
- umanwizard 9y ago
  Only a tiny minority of even people in the top quintile were admitted to top schools as legacies.
  - yborg 9y ago
    Agree, we're talking about a few hundred people a year if you're focusing on the marquee schools, the issue is lifting up millions of kids. Improving existing public schooling and colleges/universities would do far more to providing mobility opportunities than eliminating legacy admissions at Harvard. For one thing, where will the next generation of lobbyists come from if we can't supply law firms with well-connected dullards whose parents went to an Ivy League school?
    - maroonblazer 9y ago
      I didn't take him to mean only Ivy League schools, but rather universities broadly.
      - umanwizard 9y ago
        Are people really getting into random mediocre universities by being legacies?
        maroonblazer 9y ago
        "random mediocre universities" like Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, Vanderbilt, UVA, U of Michigan, UC Berkeley, Notre Dame...
        dorchadas 9y ago
        Yep. I went to Notre Dame as a non-legacy. I knew several people who got in off the wait list simply because they were legacy.
ccalvert 9y ago
I think the gift that some upper-middle-class kids get that others don't always get is a belief in their ability to succeed. You also need a strong work ethic, but I'm not sure there is such a thing as a work ethic if a person has no faith in their ability to succeed. Perhaps it looks a bit like this: - Some people you can't keep down no matter what you do. These people do things like work full time, go to school in the evenings, and graduate from college in four years. - Some people will succeed if given the opportunity to succeed. That is, if you give them a scholarship or financial aid or if their parents pay for their education. - Some people will succeed if you give them a big push. Take them to the financial aid office and help them fill out the form, ply them with encouraging words when they want to give up at midterms or finals, etc. - Some people won't succeed no matter what you do. Usually, because they have so little faith in themselves that they give up even when success is all but guaranteed. So yes, government programs are needed to get enough citizens across the finish line. But I don't think this is really about class, I think it is about motivating people -- helping them learn to believe in themselves.
- calt 9y ago
  Don't tell me that I just needed to believe in myself more. My belief in my ability to succeed was briefly shattered by my dad's employment situation. He was a well qualified engineer laid off from manufacturing. That made us struggle. I was always thinking about money and feeling the need to optimize for $2 meals instead of $4 meals, and wondering if my car would hold in long enough to be able to get me to school in a week. These are things that only your first, most motivated, category of people will overcome. I didn't overcome these obstacles. I temporarily dropped out. Don't tell me that I just needed to believe in myself more. My story only has a happy ending because state schools are cheap and engineering internships are paid.
  - pwinnski 9y ago
    I didn't read a "just" in the previous poster. I do believe that belief or trust is a necessary but inadequate precondition to success. Believing in yourself is not enough to help you succeed, but not believing in yourself is enough to help you not succeed. As a society, we do a very poor job giving people that trust or belief.

maroonblazer 9y ago

Agree. This review and the ideas behind this book are really interesting (I've not yet read it). I'm surprised though that the reviewer discounts legacy preferences at universities. Given the degree to which a well-qualified school can open up opportunities for someone this seems like a perfectly valid and effective policy proposal.

umanwizard 9y ago
Only a tiny minority of even people in the top quintile were admitted to top schools as legacies.
- yborg 9y ago
  Agree, we're talking about a few hundred people a year if you're focusing on the marquee schools, the issue is lifting up millions of kids. Improving existing public schooling and colleges/universities would do far more to providing mobility opportunities than eliminating legacy admissions at Harvard. For one thing, where will the next generation of lobbyists come from if we can't supply law firms with well-connected dullards whose parents went to an Ivy League school?
  - maroonblazer 9y ago
    I didn't take him to mean only Ivy League schools, but rather universities broadly.
    - umanwizard 9y ago
      Are people really getting into random mediocre universities by being legacies?
      - maroonblazer 9y ago
        "random mediocre universities" like Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, Vanderbilt, UVA, U of Michigan, UC Berkeley, Notre Dame...
        dorchadas 9y ago
        Yep. I went to Notre Dame as a non-legacy. I knew several people who got in off the wait list simply because they were legacy.

ccalvert 9y ago

I think the gift that some upper-middle-class kids get that others don't always get is a belief in their ability to succeed. You also need a strong work ethic, but I'm not sure there is such a thing as a work ethic if a person has no faith in their ability to succeed. Perhaps it looks a bit like this: - Some people you can't keep down no matter what you do. These people do things like work full time, go to school in the evenings, and graduate from college in four years. - Some people will succeed if given the opportunity to succeed. That is, if you give them a scholarship or financial aid or if their parents pay for their education. - Some people will succeed if you give them a big push. Take them to the financial aid office and help them fill out the form, ply them with encouraging words when they want to give up at midterms or finals, etc. - Some people won't succeed no matter what you do. Usually, because they have so little faith in themselves that they give up even when success is all but guaranteed. So yes, government programs are needed to get enough citizens across the finish line. But I don't think this is really about class, I think it is about motivating people -- helping them learn to believe in themselves.

calt 9y ago
Don't tell me that I just needed to believe in myself more. My belief in my ability to succeed was briefly shattered by my dad's employment situation. He was a well qualified engineer laid off from manufacturing. That made us struggle. I was always thinking about money and feeling the need to optimize for $2 meals instead of $4 meals, and wondering if my car would hold in long enough to be able to get me to school in a week. These are things that only your first, most motivated, category of people will overcome. I didn't overcome these obstacles. I temporarily dropped out. Don't tell me that I just needed to believe in myself more. My story only has a happy ending because state schools are cheap and engineering internships are paid.
- pwinnski 9y ago
  I didn't read a "just" in the previous poster. I do believe that belief or trust is a necessary but inadequate precondition to success. Believing in yourself is not enough to help you succeed, but not believing in yourself is enough to help you not succeed. As a society, we do a very poor job giving people that trust or belief.