5 ms·

It's surprising to hear this within the context of Chicago experiencing such high levels of homicide. Do they give any context as to why NYC is out performing o

It's surprising to hear this within the context of Chicago experiencing such high levels of homicide. Do they give any context as to why NYC is out performing other large cities?

revelation 9y ago
Gentrification is a very successful crime fighting tool.
danso 9y ago
Chicago apparently has greater concentrations of poverty, particularly among African-Americans: edit: forgot the URL for this story https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/why-is-new-york-so-much-safer-than-chicago.html https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/why-is-new-york-so-much-safer... > A 2015 study by Rutgers University public policy researcher Paul A. Jargowsky found that more than a third of all poor African-Americans in Chicago live in census tracts with poverty rates above 40 percent, compared with 26 percent of poor African-Americans in New York. The headline news about Chicago homicides and shootigns (e.g. "WAR ZONE: 10 Killed, 28 WOunded in Chicago Over MLK Day Weekend [0]) don't convey how concentrated the violence is in specific areas of the city. I visit (middle-class) friends who live downtown and uptown (along the lake) and it feels as safe as any of the nice parts of Manhattan when I lived there. Chicago Tribune does an excellent job tracking shootings [1]. You can easily see -- after zooming in a little -- on even their overplotted dot map that areas other than Chicago's west and south sides, shootings are virtually nonexistent: [snapshot] https://imgur.com/gallery/uPfSG https://imgur.com/gallery/uPfSG FWIW, according to the Tribune's tracker: In Chicago, 3,543 people have been shot this year. That is 784 fewer than 2016. [0] http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/search.htm?frompage=1&StartRow=97&maxrows=50&searchFor=Chicago http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/search.htm?frompage=... [1] http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/data/ct-shooting-victims-map-charts-htmlstory.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/data/ct-shooting-victims-...
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > greater concentrations of poverty Aren't there numbers to suggest that poverty itself is negatively correlated with both violent and property crime?
- bluedino 9y ago
  >> Chicago apparently has greater concentrations of poverty, particularly among African-Americans So how does that explain Detroit, which has more poverty than Chicago, but also has a NYC-like downswing in homicides? In metro Detroit, 49% of African Americans who are poor are living in census tracts where at least 40% of the residents are poor, the highest rate among the Top 25 metro areas
  - junkscience2017 9y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit "Detroit has the second highest murder rate in the United States" violent crime is down everywhere in the US, so it is still useful to see the relative ranking to other cities https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-...
    - benbenolson 9y ago
      Yeah, if I were him, I definitely wouldn't use Detroit as an example of a low crime rate.
    - Avshalom 9y ago
      "In 2015, Detroit had its lowest number of criminal homicides in 40 years" is the point.
      - junkscience2017 9y ago
        most cities are reporting this trend
        bluedino 9y ago
        Except Chicago isn't, which was the whole point of bringing up Detroit
        9y ago
- yeukhon 9y ago
  Segregation is the key here, not poverty. Poverty is nevertheless a factor, but it is usually a result of segregation. When public funding such as education, infrastructure, healthcare, and police are take away from these segregated, poor, high-crime communities to "safer, richer" communities, then gangs rise. Popular culture portrays most gang members are African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans, and whites are generally bikers (and they usually live in south/mid-west). That kind of stereotype only makes crime situation worse. In NYC, at least from my experience, a diverse neighborhoods - influx of different cultures and races, different earning incomes, and different religious can help smooth out the tension. Diversity is not a magic bullet, and in some neighborhoods we don't see a big drop. Yet, a diverse neighborhoods have better chance in demanding for better resource distribution, so in the long-term the neighborhood will drive the bad out as the bad has little to feed on. So the key is to remove segregation, have more diverse voice, and encourage neighbors talk to one another other.
  - dionidium 9y ago
    Segregation seems like the most salient factor to me. NYC is seeing an almost unbelievable amount of re-integration of previously all-black areas. I'm not aware of anywhere else in the U.S. that's seen such a broad change in its black neighborhoods. In places like Bedford-Stuyvesant and Central Harlem, the white share of population has increased from 1-4 percent or so in 2000 (i.e. basically non-existent) to anywhere from 10-25% (depending on the exact area and how you break it up). And growing. Segregation has been a disaster for black neighborhoods. More than anything else, this change feels to me like a big one.
    - yeukhon 9y ago
      Right. I graduated from City College, which is located at 137th, basically Harlem for those that don’t live in NYC. There have been robberies and rapes near the school (145th and St. Nicholas Park), but generally, I felt very safe when I was a student there (I have walked north of Harlem and south to Columbia by myself before too). Crimes will never cease to happen, so one can only wish not not becoming that unfortunate target. However, the violence in the old days is pretty much non-existence. Some shootings every so often, but most arrests are probably robberies, sexual crimes and illegal drugs possessions. Housing in Queens and Brooklyn are becoming less affordable. Then business owners like Chinese resturants and retail franchises are moving in to snatch the new population. The 1,2,3 trains are convenient to travel from and to Manhattan, so ideal for university students and young singles.
liveoneggs 9y ago
one of my favorite parts of NYC is that guns are not allowed. Everyone with a gun is either: cop, former cop, or criminal
- jdavis703 9y ago
  I’m no gun nut, but at least two of these are the three groups of people you least want having guns.
  - liveoneggs 9y ago
    a fairly common sentiment is to "assume everyone is armed" because guns are otherwise pretty common. In NYC it is safe to assume people are not armed, which is totally different from every other part of the US.
omegaworks 9y ago
Areas of Chicago have been systematically divested from and abandoned. Poverty is concentrated and guns are available from adjacent, easily-accessible red states. "We don't need more law enforcement. We don't need more police and demonising headlines and pitiful donations what we need are investments we need resources it is imperative that anyone with any privilege at all take the steps necessary to provide the resources they see a lack of this is possible with perseverance and vigilance" -Eva Maria Lewis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiGK0PxaKvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiGK0PxaKvU
asveikau 9y ago
I think Chicago has participated in the nationwide trend of a mid-1990s-to-present decrease in violent crime. I think the idea that some people have that it's "American carnage" is an exaggeration.

It's surprising to hear this within the context of Chicago experiencing such high levels of homicide. Do they give any context as to why NYC is out performing other large cities?

revelation 9y ago

Gentrification is a very successful crime fighting tool.

danso 9y ago

Chicago apparently has greater concentrations of poverty, particularly among African-Americans: edit: forgot the URL for this story https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/why-is-new-york-so-much-safer-than-chicago.html https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/why-is-new-york-so-much-safer... > A 2015 study by Rutgers University public policy researcher Paul A. Jargowsky found that more than a third of all poor African-Americans in Chicago live in census tracts with poverty rates above 40 percent, compared with 26 percent of poor African-Americans in New York. The headline news about Chicago homicides and shootigns (e.g. "WAR ZONE: 10 Killed, 28 WOunded in Chicago Over MLK Day Weekend [0]) don't convey how concentrated the violence is in specific areas of the city. I visit (middle-class) friends who live downtown and uptown (along the lake) and it feels as safe as any of the nice parts of Manhattan when I lived there. Chicago Tribune does an excellent job tracking shootings [1]. You can easily see -- after zooming in a little -- on even their overplotted dot map that areas other than Chicago's west and south sides, shootings are virtually nonexistent: [snapshot] https://imgur.com/gallery/uPfSG https://imgur.com/gallery/uPfSG FWIW, according to the Tribune's tracker: In Chicago, 3,543 people have been shot this year. That is 784 fewer than 2016. [0] http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/search.htm?frompage=1&StartRow=97&maxrows=50&searchFor=Chicago http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/search.htm?frompage=... [1] http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/data/ct-shooting-victims-map-charts-htmlstory.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/data/ct-shooting-victims-...

microcolonel 9y ago
> greater concentrations of poverty Aren't there numbers to suggest that poverty itself is negatively correlated with both violent and property crime?
bluedino 9y ago
>> Chicago apparently has greater concentrations of poverty, particularly among African-Americans So how does that explain Detroit, which has more poverty than Chicago, but also has a NYC-like downswing in homicides? In metro Detroit, 49% of African Americans who are poor are living in census tracts where at least 40% of the residents are poor, the highest rate among the Top 25 metro areas
- junkscience2017 9y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit "Detroit has the second highest murder rate in the United States" violent crime is down everywhere in the US, so it is still useful to see the relative ranking to other cities https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-...
  - benbenolson 9y ago
    Yeah, if I were him, I definitely wouldn't use Detroit as an example of a low crime rate.
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    "In 2015, Detroit had its lowest number of criminal homicides in 40 years" is the point.
    - junkscience2017 9y ago
      most cities are reporting this trend
      - bluedino 9y ago
        Except Chicago isn't, which was the whole point of bringing up Detroit
        9y ago
yeukhon 9y ago
Segregation is the key here, not poverty. Poverty is nevertheless a factor, but it is usually a result of segregation. When public funding such as education, infrastructure, healthcare, and police are take away from these segregated, poor, high-crime communities to "safer, richer" communities, then gangs rise. Popular culture portrays most gang members are African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans, and whites are generally bikers (and they usually live in south/mid-west). That kind of stereotype only makes crime situation worse. In NYC, at least from my experience, a diverse neighborhoods - influx of different cultures and races, different earning incomes, and different religious can help smooth out the tension. Diversity is not a magic bullet, and in some neighborhoods we don't see a big drop. Yet, a diverse neighborhoods have better chance in demanding for better resource distribution, so in the long-term the neighborhood will drive the bad out as the bad has little to feed on. So the key is to remove segregation, have more diverse voice, and encourage neighbors talk to one another other.
- dionidium 9y ago
  Segregation seems like the most salient factor to me. NYC is seeing an almost unbelievable amount of re-integration of previously all-black areas. I'm not aware of anywhere else in the U.S. that's seen such a broad change in its black neighborhoods. In places like Bedford-Stuyvesant and Central Harlem, the white share of population has increased from 1-4 percent or so in 2000 (i.e. basically non-existent) to anywhere from 10-25% (depending on the exact area and how you break it up). And growing. Segregation has been a disaster for black neighborhoods. More than anything else, this change feels to me like a big one.
  - yeukhon 9y ago
    Right. I graduated from City College, which is located at 137th, basically Harlem for those that don’t live in NYC. There have been robberies and rapes near the school (145th and St. Nicholas Park), but generally, I felt very safe when I was a student there (I have walked north of Harlem and south to Columbia by myself before too). Crimes will never cease to happen, so one can only wish not not becoming that unfortunate target. However, the violence in the old days is pretty much non-existence. Some shootings every so often, but most arrests are probably robberies, sexual crimes and illegal drugs possessions. Housing in Queens and Brooklyn are becoming less affordable. Then business owners like Chinese resturants and retail franchises are moving in to snatch the new population. The 1,2,3 trains are convenient to travel from and to Manhattan, so ideal for university students and young singles.

liveoneggs 9y ago

one of my favorite parts of NYC is that guns are not allowed. Everyone with a gun is either: cop, former cop, or criminal

jdavis703 9y ago
I’m no gun nut, but at least two of these are the three groups of people you least want having guns.
- liveoneggs 9y ago
  a fairly common sentiment is to "assume everyone is armed" because guns are otherwise pretty common. In NYC it is safe to assume people are not armed, which is totally different from every other part of the US.

omegaworks 9y ago

Areas of Chicago have been systematically divested from and abandoned. Poverty is concentrated and guns are available from adjacent, easily-accessible red states. "We don't need more law enforcement. We don't need more police and demonising headlines and pitiful donations what we need are investments we need resources it is imperative that anyone with any privilege at all take the steps necessary to provide the resources they see a lack of this is possible with perseverance and vigilance" -Eva Maria Lewis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiGK0PxaKvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiGK0PxaKvU

asveikau 9y ago

I think Chicago has participated in the nationwide trend of a mid-1990s-to-present decrease in violent crime. I think the idea that some people have that it's "American carnage" is an exaggeration.