5 ms·

> With a top menu at $130 That $130 is most likely for an entire several course meal, not an entree. I think most middle class people go out to nice dinners a

> With a top menu at $130 That $130 is most likely for an entire several course meal, not an entree. I think most middle class people go out to nice dinners a few times a year for anniversaries and birthdays.

will4274 9y ago
> I think most middle class people go out to nice dinners a few times a year for anniversaries and birthdays. I grew up "upper middle class" in the USA. We went out to nice dinners on anniversaries and birthdays - meaning $30 entrees and $5 desert, not $130 entrees. A $130 meal is a once in a lifetime type celebration (e.g. 50th wedding anniversary, making partner in a company you've worked for for a decade), not a few times a year. At least for my family.
- caoilte 9y ago
  I always find these discussions pointless without more context. How old are you? $40 in 1979 prices is $130 now. And don't get me started on trying to define how American definitions of class have evolved in the last fifty years...
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    > And don't get me started on trying to define how American definitions of class have evolved in the last fifty years... Yeah I don't understand what Americans mean by middle class... in the UK middle class means educated, successful, with a respected profession and more sophisticated cultural tastes. A doctor or lawyer who owns their own home and takes a couple of foreign holidays a year with children in private school would be a classic example of the UK middle class. Middle class in America seems to basically mean poor? The phrase doesn't seem to translate at all.
    - CapitalistCartr 9y ago
      All Americans like to imagine themselves "Middle Class" and woe betide the politician that says otherwise. The doctor making 250k per year, and the workman making 25k. Its the American love of egalitarianism and pretense of no classism.
    - pmyteh 9y ago
      British middle class is... nuanced. The examples you have are certainly middle class, but then so is the primary school teacher on £25k a year. Private schooling only covers 8%ish of children, but about half the country consider themselves middle class.
    - adventured 9y ago
      > Middle class in America seems to basically mean poor? Middle class has a slightly vague economic definition in the US. The US also commonly uses variations such as upper and lower middle class, and then there is poor, upper class, and rich. Middle class does not basically mean poor. The US middle class has an extraordinary income compared to the middle class of all but a few nations: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/05/through-an-american-lens-western-europes-middle-classes-appear-smaller/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/05/through-an-a... It means your household income is typically between $40,000 to $100,000; above that and you're either upper middle class, or upper class; below that and you're either poor or lower middle class depending. For example, two people working median full-time jobs in the US will earn nearly $100,000. The median household income in the US is about $60,000.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - VLM 9y ago
      To help the foreigners, generally in the USA getting most of your lifetime income from the government welfare means lower class, from a job means middle class, and from investments means upper class. There are of course numerous lifestyle choices and plenty of classes copying other classes behavior often without even understanding the reason why. Our economic system is set up to keep the classes separate to the point of nearly being unable to communicate with each other. It is almost like three separate cultures that happen to coexist in the same space, mostly. Tomorrow I'm paying estimated quarterlies, which is a phrase that won't even make sense to people not in the upper class, whereas in comparison our mass media pop music is solely lower class to the point that you need an urban dictionary website to make any sense out of "our" music if you're not poor.
  - will4274 9y ago
    I'm 25. I make about $150k. My father would never tell me how much money he makes ("it's rude to talk about money") but he probably makes at least double what I make. My mother doesn't work.
- goialoq 9y ago
  In the OP, $130 is for a full Prix Fixe meal on New YEars Eve. > $130 meal is a once in a lifetime type celebration (e.g. 50th wedding anniversary, Most "traditional" weddings (like you see in TV shows) cost $130 per guest for meal and alcohol. Many people attend many of these in a lifetime. > making partner in a company you've worked for for a decade People in that situation would tend to do a $130 email to celebrate their annual bonus, not just the one time they get up to the $500k+/yr income band.
  - will4274 9y ago
    > > $130 meal is a once in a lifetime type celebration (e.g. 50th wedding anniversary, > Most "traditional" weddings (like you see in TV shows) cost $130 per guest for meal and alcohol. Many people attend many of these in a lifetime. Right, but the host pays for it all. Your children getting married is a "once in a lifetime event" like a 50 year anniversary or a major career promotion.
- GFischer 9y ago
  Definitely doesn't sound "upper middle class" to me. According to Wikipedia, an "upper middle class" household has about U$ 120.000 in income - that means that splurging on a Michelin meal for 4 would be 4% of the monthly budget - definitely doable for a birthday or anniversary if you want to. Many people spend that much or more on a gift. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_Unit... Maybe you're having the same problem many people have, where they have price anchoring on some points in the past - $130 now is about $80 in 1997.
  - will4274 9y ago
    > if you want to We didn't want to. And when the economy crashed in 2009, I saw my neighbors whose parents made more money than us sell their homes and move to cheaper neighborhoods and my parents used their savings to make it through comfortably.
ashark 9y ago
Lots of people in the US with enough income to swing an occasional $250/couple dinner out consider The Olive Garden fancy and go somewhere like that for their “special” dinners. Source: personally know way more people in that situation than I do people who appreciate and can afford non-microwaved meals out. Could be regional—this is the midwest, after all. “Prix Fixe” isn’t in most people’s vocabulary here, even if they can easily afford good meals. It’s a socialization/class thing.
- goialoq 9y ago
  Olive Garden may be acceptable (I'm no snob), but no one considers it _fancy_. It's the least-expensive lowest-grade of sit-down meal.
  - marpstar 9y ago
    I'm in Iowa and people really do think Olive Garden is "fancy". I got an Olive Garden gift card for Christmas and my and I even cracked a joke about going on a "fancy" date there, because so many people here think that it's what a "nice" restaurant is.
  - ashark 9y ago
    The Olive Gardens around here are worse than the middle tier of frozen Italian dinners you can grab at the grocery store, these days (they've definitely gotten worse over the last 10-15 years—I think they've preferred lowering quality over raising prices, though they've done that a bit, too). Some dishes are worse than cheap frozen dinners, even. Last time I went it seriously had the taste and consistency (and general watery-ness) of microwaved food, too. Actually that last part's true for most of the non-fine-dining Italian I've had around here lately, including a few mom & pop places, not just chains. If the cheap to middling sections of the frozen aisle are better than what you're making... please stop. Then again, it sells for some reason, so who am I to say. [EDIT] and to back up Marpster below, it is nonetheless "fancy" around here to many (Missouri), including those who could certainly afford better for their special nights out.

will4274 9y ago

> I think most middle class people go out to nice dinners a few times a year for anniversaries and birthdays. I grew up "upper middle class" in the USA. We went out to nice dinners on anniversaries and birthdays - meaning $30 entrees and $5 desert, not $130 entrees. A $130 meal is a once in a lifetime type celebration (e.g. 50th wedding anniversary, making partner in a company you've worked for for a decade), not a few times a year. At least for my family.

caoilte 9y ago
I always find these discussions pointless without more context. How old are you? $40 in 1979 prices is $130 now. And don't get me started on trying to define how American definitions of class have evolved in the last fifty years...
- chrisseaton 9y ago
  > And don't get me started on trying to define how American definitions of class have evolved in the last fifty years... Yeah I don't understand what Americans mean by middle class... in the UK middle class means educated, successful, with a respected profession and more sophisticated cultural tastes. A doctor or lawyer who owns their own home and takes a couple of foreign holidays a year with children in private school would be a classic example of the UK middle class. Middle class in America seems to basically mean poor? The phrase doesn't seem to translate at all.
  - CapitalistCartr 9y ago
    All Americans like to imagine themselves "Middle Class" and woe betide the politician that says otherwise. The doctor making 250k per year, and the workman making 25k. Its the American love of egalitarianism and pretense of no classism.
  - pmyteh 9y ago
    British middle class is... nuanced. The examples you have are certainly middle class, but then so is the primary school teacher on £25k a year. Private schooling only covers 8%ish of children, but about half the country consider themselves middle class.
  - adventured 9y ago
    > Middle class in America seems to basically mean poor? Middle class has a slightly vague economic definition in the US. The US also commonly uses variations such as upper and lower middle class, and then there is poor, upper class, and rich. Middle class does not basically mean poor. The US middle class has an extraordinary income compared to the middle class of all but a few nations: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/05/through-an-american-lens-western-europes-middle-classes-appear-smaller/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/05/through-an-a... It means your household income is typically between $40,000 to $100,000; above that and you're either upper middle class, or upper class; below that and you're either poor or lower middle class depending. For example, two people working median full-time jobs in the US will earn nearly $100,000. The median household income in the US is about $60,000.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - VLM 9y ago
    To help the foreigners, generally in the USA getting most of your lifetime income from the government welfare means lower class, from a job means middle class, and from investments means upper class. There are of course numerous lifestyle choices and plenty of classes copying other classes behavior often without even understanding the reason why. Our economic system is set up to keep the classes separate to the point of nearly being unable to communicate with each other. It is almost like three separate cultures that happen to coexist in the same space, mostly. Tomorrow I'm paying estimated quarterlies, which is a phrase that won't even make sense to people not in the upper class, whereas in comparison our mass media pop music is solely lower class to the point that you need an urban dictionary website to make any sense out of "our" music if you're not poor.
- will4274 9y ago
  I'm 25. I make about $150k. My father would never tell me how much money he makes ("it's rude to talk about money") but he probably makes at least double what I make. My mother doesn't work.
goialoq 9y ago
In the OP, $130 is for a full Prix Fixe meal on New YEars Eve. > $130 meal is a once in a lifetime type celebration (e.g. 50th wedding anniversary, Most "traditional" weddings (like you see in TV shows) cost $130 per guest for meal and alcohol. Many people attend many of these in a lifetime. > making partner in a company you've worked for for a decade People in that situation would tend to do a $130 email to celebrate their annual bonus, not just the one time they get up to the $500k+/yr income band.
- will4274 9y ago
  > > $130 meal is a once in a lifetime type celebration (e.g. 50th wedding anniversary, > Most "traditional" weddings (like you see in TV shows) cost $130 per guest for meal and alcohol. Many people attend many of these in a lifetime. Right, but the host pays for it all. Your children getting married is a "once in a lifetime event" like a 50 year anniversary or a major career promotion.
GFischer 9y ago
Definitely doesn't sound "upper middle class" to me. According to Wikipedia, an "upper middle class" household has about U$ 120.000 in income - that means that splurging on a Michelin meal for 4 would be 4% of the monthly budget - definitely doable for a birthday or anniversary if you want to. Many people spend that much or more on a gift. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_Unit... Maybe you're having the same problem many people have, where they have price anchoring on some points in the past - $130 now is about $80 in 1997.
- will4274 9y ago
  > if you want to We didn't want to. And when the economy crashed in 2009, I saw my neighbors whose parents made more money than us sell their homes and move to cheaper neighborhoods and my parents used their savings to make it through comfortably.

ashark 9y ago

Lots of people in the US with enough income to swing an occasional $250/couple dinner out consider The Olive Garden fancy and go somewhere like that for their “special” dinners. Source: personally know way more people in that situation than I do people who appreciate and can afford non-microwaved meals out. Could be regional—this is the midwest, after all. “Prix Fixe” isn’t in most people’s vocabulary here, even if they can easily afford good meals. It’s a socialization/class thing.

goialoq 9y ago
Olive Garden may be acceptable (I'm no snob), but no one considers it _fancy_. It's the least-expensive lowest-grade of sit-down meal.
- marpstar 9y ago
  I'm in Iowa and people really do think Olive Garden is "fancy". I got an Olive Garden gift card for Christmas and my and I even cracked a joke about going on a "fancy" date there, because so many people here think that it's what a "nice" restaurant is.
- ashark 9y ago
  The Olive Gardens around here are worse than the middle tier of frozen Italian dinners you can grab at the grocery store, these days (they've definitely gotten worse over the last 10-15 years—I think they've preferred lowering quality over raising prices, though they've done that a bit, too). Some dishes are worse than cheap frozen dinners, even. Last time I went it seriously had the taste and consistency (and general watery-ness) of microwaved food, too. Actually that last part's true for most of the non-fine-dining Italian I've had around here lately, including a few mom & pop places, not just chains. If the cheap to middling sections of the frozen aisle are better than what you're making... please stop. Then again, it sells for some reason, so who am I to say. [EDIT] and to back up Marpster below, it is nonetheless "fancy" around here to many (Missouri), including those who could certainly afford better for their special nights out.