5 ms·

The Door Problem (2014)

140 points by nickjj 9y ago

nickjj 9y ago
I liked this article because it relates to any form of development. The next time a client says "that doesn't seem too hard, can you just add it to the app?", I'm sure you can think of a laundry list of things that need to happen to implement it.
- justherefortart 9y ago
  It's just a button. This was the joke at my old job.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Kenji 9y ago
Monetization Designer: “We could charge the player $.99 to open the door now, or wait 24 hours for it to open automatically.” Good lord. Please kill me. Is this what game design has come to?
- Endy 9y ago
  In terms of "AAA" game design, yes. There are still a few indie developers out there who actually want to produce good games. But capitalism means they don't win - the people who get the most money do.
  - sunshinerag 9y ago
    > But capitalism means they don't win.. Strange conclusion.
  - 0xdeadbeefbabe 9y ago
    Doesn't capitalism mean they could win, but not in this century?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- delinka 9y ago
  No, that’s “monetization design.” ;-)
- blunte 9y ago
  That example probably applies to 2/3 of the mobile games (and a number of web-based games).
- Pica_soO 9y ago
  Its actually a little worser now. It basically boils down to - Can we turn this door in a feel-good pachinko machine? If you invest 3 $ in a door card pack with a heigh chance of thief-skills- future doors will fly open for you...
- mavidser 9y ago
  Kind of. The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for opening different doors.
k__ 9y ago
It's like with all software. On one project I have a whole design team that tells me how the doors should look and behave. On the next project nobody really cares, so I paint them black, lock all of them and wait till someone complains abut a few that they want to open. ;)
- blunte 9y ago
  And this is a pretty good way of going about things. Details of the doors don't matter until they matter. And if some participants have specific desires/needs/opinions about doors, you can worry about those while leaving other unmentioned details painted black.
  - k__ 9y ago
    Yes. Often people need more than they initially think of, but if you wake desires on stuff they don't need you just waste time for nothing.
  - gonzo41 9y ago
    It's always easier to put something out that the design area can say no to rather than trying to work collaboratively from the get go in the first place. Most people have an idea of what they want, but can't see it until they can tell you all the things they don't want!
blunte 9y ago
This is a fantastic example, and it applies to just about everything in life. That which we only use or see is simple. That which we build, is not. Until you've had a custom home built, for example, you may think a home is a pretty simple thing. Likewise, until you've built any non-trivial piece of software, you might think it simple. I suppose it's a human optimization to conceptualize and minimize things in our mind. It allows us to have enough of an idea to get on with whatever is more important to us. The problem is when we forget that we are naturally oversimplifying everything in life (except that one or two things we're actually doing/building).
zitterbewegung 9y ago
I think the biggest issue in video games is the disconnect between how people perceive developers and what they do. Many people complain about QA teams and how they "aren't doing their job". The real issue is that making video games requires so much testing that they can't keep up with meeting deadlines and goals. Considering that someone has to hand test nearly all situations that the only way you can really test a game is to release a beta quality game and let your users tell you whats wrong. Warframe is the best at trying to manage peoples expectations. The creative director went on periscope during a big release which made people understand what is happening. The head liveops (community manager) allows them to walk on water (https://twitter.com/rebbford https://twitter.com/rebbford) due to her ability to manage the community. Warframe is the sole example of a game that treats its uses like adults.
- Kaivo 9y ago
  I worked in QA on some AAA titles and I remember being told that the hours the team was putting in testing the game (nearly 300 people over several months of over time) would be matched by the players in the first 6 to 8 hours from the release. That and when the team is filling hundreds if not thousands of defects daily, how can the dev team keep up and "fix" everything?
  - zitterbewegung 9y ago
    I agree with your statement. They can't fix everything.
  - justherefortart 9y ago
    Why are developers reinventing the wheel for each release (seemingly)? The fix in my experience is to build a baseline between the low level framework and the UI, like a business layer in most web applications or the HAL in Windows. I'm not a game developer though, so just my stab in the dark :-)
    - zitterbewegung 9y ago
      They do this though its called a video driver and a video game engine.
nsarafa 9y ago
The localization bit made me crack up.
provost 9y ago
And the inevitable, "It shouldn't be that hard to add a door, you can do that in 30 minutes, right?"
- codazoda 9y ago
  It's just one line of code.
aerialcombat 9y ago
Ahhhh... This article was so therapeutic.
Lazare 9y ago
Another point that could be made is that all the questions in the first part are important and need to be answered, and all the answers in the second part are what the relevant people involved will actually do, but if you add up all the answers in the second part, you haven't actually answered most of the questions in the first part. And I'd say I've definitely played games where major systems were done that way; someone up on high said the system needed to exist, and then people charged off and did concept art, and sound effects, and made assets, and setup scripting hooks, without ever really fleshing out the details of what the system was meant to do. Come to that, I've worked on some non-game projects that did the same thing. :)
- firethief 9y ago
  All of the questions in the top are the Game Designer's job.
georgeecollins 9y ago
There have been movie and television shows about how movies and television shows are made. The same about newspapers and magazines. People don't really have a clue how games are made and what it entails. When I say I work in video games, people usually say: Really, do you program them?

140 points by nickjj 9y ago

I liked this article because it relates to any form of development. The next time a client says "that doesn't seem too hard, can you just add it to the app?", I'm sure you can think of a laundry list of things that need to happen to implement it.

justherefortart 9y ago
It's just a button. This was the joke at my old job.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Kenji 9y ago

Monetization Designer: “We could charge the player $.99 to open the door now, or wait 24 hours for it to open automatically.” Good lord. Please kill me. Is this what game design has come to?

Endy 9y ago
In terms of "AAA" game design, yes. There are still a few indie developers out there who actually want to produce good games. But capitalism means they don't win - the people who get the most money do.
- sunshinerag 9y ago
  > But capitalism means they don't win.. Strange conclusion.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 9y ago
  Doesn't capitalism mean they could win, but not in this century?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
delinka 9y ago
No, that’s “monetization design.” ;-)
blunte 9y ago
That example probably applies to 2/3 of the mobile games (and a number of web-based games).
Pica_soO 9y ago
Its actually a little worser now. It basically boils down to - Can we turn this door in a feel-good pachinko machine? If you invest 3 $ in a door card pack with a heigh chance of thief-skills- future doors will fly open for you...
mavidser 9y ago
Kind of. The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for opening different doors.

k__ 9y ago

It's like with all software. On one project I have a whole design team that tells me how the doors should look and behave. On the next project nobody really cares, so I paint them black, lock all of them and wait till someone complains abut a few that they want to open. ;)

blunte 9y ago
And this is a pretty good way of going about things. Details of the doors don't matter until they matter. And if some participants have specific desires/needs/opinions about doors, you can worry about those while leaving other unmentioned details painted black.
- k__ 9y ago
  Yes. Often people need more than they initially think of, but if you wake desires on stuff they don't need you just waste time for nothing.
- gonzo41 9y ago
  It's always easier to put something out that the design area can say no to rather than trying to work collaboratively from the get go in the first place. Most people have an idea of what they want, but can't see it until they can tell you all the things they don't want!

blunte 9y ago

This is a fantastic example, and it applies to just about everything in life. That which we only use or see is simple. That which we build, is not. Until you've had a custom home built, for example, you may think a home is a pretty simple thing. Likewise, until you've built any non-trivial piece of software, you might think it simple. I suppose it's a human optimization to conceptualize and minimize things in our mind. It allows us to have enough of an idea to get on with whatever is more important to us. The problem is when we forget that we are naturally oversimplifying everything in life (except that one or two things we're actually doing/building).

zitterbewegung 9y ago

I think the biggest issue in video games is the disconnect between how people perceive developers and what they do. Many people complain about QA teams and how they "aren't doing their job". The real issue is that making video games requires so much testing that they can't keep up with meeting deadlines and goals. Considering that someone has to hand test nearly all situations that the only way you can really test a game is to release a beta quality game and let your users tell you whats wrong. Warframe is the best at trying to manage peoples expectations. The creative director went on periscope during a big release which made people understand what is happening. The head liveops (community manager) allows them to walk on water (https://twitter.com/rebbford https://twitter.com/rebbford) due to her ability to manage the community. Warframe is the sole example of a game that treats its uses like adults.

Kaivo 9y ago
I worked in QA on some AAA titles and I remember being told that the hours the team was putting in testing the game (nearly 300 people over several months of over time) would be matched by the players in the first 6 to 8 hours from the release. That and when the team is filling hundreds if not thousands of defects daily, how can the dev team keep up and "fix" everything?
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
  I agree with your statement. They can't fix everything.
- justherefortart 9y ago
  Why are developers reinventing the wheel for each release (seemingly)? The fix in my experience is to build a baseline between the low level framework and the UI, like a business layer in most web applications or the HAL in Windows. I'm not a game developer though, so just my stab in the dark :-)
  - zitterbewegung 9y ago
    They do this though its called a video driver and a video game engine.

nsarafa 9y ago

The localization bit made me crack up.

provost 9y ago

And the inevitable, "It shouldn't be that hard to add a door, you can do that in 30 minutes, right?"

codazoda 9y ago
It's just one line of code.

aerialcombat 9y ago

Ahhhh... This article was so therapeutic.

Lazare 9y ago

Another point that could be made is that all the questions in the first part are important and need to be answered, and all the answers in the second part are what the relevant people involved will actually do, but if you add up all the answers in the second part, you haven't actually answered most of the questions in the first part. And I'd say I've definitely played games where major systems were done that way; someone up on high said the system needed to exist, and then people charged off and did concept art, and sound effects, and made assets, and setup scripting hooks, without ever really fleshing out the details of what the system was meant to do. Come to that, I've worked on some non-game projects that did the same thing. :)

firethief 9y ago
All of the questions in the top are the Game Designer's job.

georgeecollins 9y ago

There have been movie and television shows about how movies and television shows are made. The same about newspapers and magazines. People don't really have a clue how games are made and what it entails. When I say I work in video games, people usually say: Really, do you program them?