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The issue has to do with Institutions & services firms here in India. It is normal to see IT Engineers (coders) define they career as X programmer where it's n

The issue has to do with Institutions & services firms here in India. It is normal to see IT Engineers (coders) define they career as X programmer where it's now time for every programmer to have full-stack skills and treat programming language as a drill-bit in a tool-box. Since the services companies benefited earlier by recruiting a graduate and training them to be X programmer for life, the institutions didn't have a reason to adapt to changing times because 99% of their students were placed in these companies and remaining 1 % in Google, MS etc. [Fun note - Sundar, Satya, Shantanu, Sanjay Jha , George Kurian etc. belong to that 1% and yet capable enough climb to the top-most seat.] But I wouldn't buy the 'Indians not hardworking' stereotype,for an average Indian every opportunity in their life has to be fought for with thousands (some times millions) of other competitors. I've seen several people who were the first graduate from their entire family history while living in a hut and create a sustainable life for them; thanks to these services companies. But it's time for a change, Institutions should build skills which make their students recruit-able by startups.

kamaal 9y ago
Its strange that you take the names of CEOs and proceed to deduce that as a proof of them being good programmers. Most of them go to Ivy league engineering schools, and then Ivy league management schools. And then from there straight jump into management barely spending any time at all in engineering. And the whole reason why they do engineering is largely because they need a bridge course to get into a masters level management degree. Once you get into a Ivy league management school, going wherever from there is essentially a networking activity not exactly a great indicator of your engineering performance. It helps to have friends in high places. Management positions have long been seen as replacements for IAS. The 1% you talk about parse XMLs at Google and Microsoft. The 99% parse the same XMLs at services firms. The 1% thinks they are special because of a association with a certain Ivy league brand name. Lets talk of the Indian 1% when somebody in a Indian university writes some thing the equivalent of a Linux, Perl or FreeBSD. Lets not over glorify these placement agencies as some institutes of engineering excellence. For what its worth the 99% what people generally berudge look down upon essentially is employed in Indias space programs that sends probes to mars and moon, built bulk of Indias pretty advanced tech defence infrastructure. Only thing IITians are good at is self worship.
- Abishek_Muthian 9y ago
  There's a reason for me quoting the CEO's as 'fun note', the context of my statement is complete different.
- fizwhiz 9y ago
  > Only thing IITians are good at is self worship. It's almost as though you've got an axe to grind with people having any respectable pedigree.
  - kamaal 9y ago
    They did damage to their own selves by flashing their degrees as some kind of life long privilege, while contributing a net negative to the Indian economy(As their education is heavily subsidized at the Indian tax payers expense).
    - hsrada 9y ago
      > while contributing a net negative to the Indian economy (As their education is heavily subsidized at the Indian tax payers expense). Below a link to a study from '08 that tried to assess the contribution of IITs to the economy. Perhaps some numbers might change your mind? (It's incomplete but includes the executive summary.) https://www.ibef.org/download/Content_19dec.pdf https://www.ibef.org/download/Content_19dec.pdf Perhaps an article (from TOI nonetheless)? - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IITians-contribution-to-economy-is-Rs-20-lakh-crore-Study/articleshow/3752658.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IITians-contributi... Before you dismiss these with whatever reason, perhaps you can show some data to back up your point?
      - kamaal 9y ago
        Amount of non-IITians running/starting industries far exceeds in number. And they don't get the same funding or training or any human resources help in return. Of course if you run institutions for decades eventually good people are going to come out of it. But by and large most IITs are largely places to train people, and send them to foreign countries. Why should the tax payers pay for them? An argument could be made to spend this money to improve public schooling infrastructure in India. And people coming out of that obviously would contribute way more. The scenario is a net loss for Indian tax payers. This is way more in lost opportunity costs. Most of these arguments sound very similar the arguments against privatization in 1980s India. You can talk of the benefits of using tax payers money to manufacture bulbs while you don't invest the same money else where, where some thing real can happen. Please feel free to run IITs using fees or whatever endowments you can get. Also most of these people harp day and night about how awesome they are, makes sense to generate some IP, sell that and make some money to fund themselves.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
As an aside, India seems to have much more international level manganent talent than say China.
- kamaal 9y ago
  That is because of our English speaking skills. We can communicate better than the Chinese. Also the fact that most people have good English speaking skills, means a lot of HBO and Star Movies watching as kids, which gives a good idea about American slangs, culture and other things in general.

kamaal 9y ago

Its strange that you take the names of CEOs and proceed to deduce that as a proof of them being good programmers. Most of them go to Ivy league engineering schools, and then Ivy league management schools. And then from there straight jump into management barely spending any time at all in engineering. And the whole reason why they do engineering is largely because they need a bridge course to get into a masters level management degree. Once you get into a Ivy league management school, going wherever from there is essentially a networking activity not exactly a great indicator of your engineering performance. It helps to have friends in high places. Management positions have long been seen as replacements for IAS. The 1% you talk about parse XMLs at Google and Microsoft. The 99% parse the same XMLs at services firms. The 1% thinks they are special because of a association with a certain Ivy league brand name. Lets talk of the Indian 1% when somebody in a Indian university writes some thing the equivalent of a Linux, Perl or FreeBSD. Lets not over glorify these placement agencies as some institutes of engineering excellence. For what its worth the 99% what people generally berudge look down upon essentially is employed in Indias space programs that sends probes to mars and moon, built bulk of Indias pretty advanced tech defence infrastructure. Only thing IITians are good at is self worship.

Abishek_Muthian 9y ago
There's a reason for me quoting the CEO's as 'fun note', the context of my statement is complete different.
fizwhiz 9y ago
> Only thing IITians are good at is self worship. It's almost as though you've got an axe to grind with people having any respectable pedigree.
- kamaal 9y ago
  They did damage to their own selves by flashing their degrees as some kind of life long privilege, while contributing a net negative to the Indian economy(As their education is heavily subsidized at the Indian tax payers expense).
  - hsrada 9y ago
    > while contributing a net negative to the Indian economy (As their education is heavily subsidized at the Indian tax payers expense). Below a link to a study from '08 that tried to assess the contribution of IITs to the economy. Perhaps some numbers might change your mind? (It's incomplete but includes the executive summary.) https://www.ibef.org/download/Content_19dec.pdf https://www.ibef.org/download/Content_19dec.pdf Perhaps an article (from TOI nonetheless)? - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IITians-contribution-to-economy-is-Rs-20-lakh-crore-Study/articleshow/3752658.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IITians-contributi... Before you dismiss these with whatever reason, perhaps you can show some data to back up your point?
    - kamaal 9y ago
      Amount of non-IITians running/starting industries far exceeds in number. And they don't get the same funding or training or any human resources help in return. Of course if you run institutions for decades eventually good people are going to come out of it. But by and large most IITs are largely places to train people, and send them to foreign countries. Why should the tax payers pay for them? An argument could be made to spend this money to improve public schooling infrastructure in India. And people coming out of that obviously would contribute way more. The scenario is a net loss for Indian tax payers. This is way more in lost opportunity costs. Most of these arguments sound very similar the arguments against privatization in 1980s India. You can talk of the benefits of using tax payers money to manufacture bulbs while you don't invest the same money else where, where some thing real can happen. Please feel free to run IITs using fees or whatever endowments you can get. Also most of these people harp day and night about how awesome they are, makes sense to generate some IP, sell that and make some money to fund themselves.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

As an aside, India seems to have much more international level manganent talent than say China.

kamaal 9y ago
That is because of our English speaking skills. We can communicate better than the Chinese. Also the fact that most people have good English speaking skills, means a lot of HBO and Star Movies watching as kids, which gives a good idea about American slangs, culture and other things in general.