10 ms·

Why do we need technology to help improve lives when so many diseases (type 2 diabetes, Crohn's, IBS, high blood pressure, arthritis, and dozens of others) can

• opportune 9y ago
  Well as a physician, you can't really force your patient to exercise and eat better. The best you can do is prescribe a medication to treat the symptoms, tell your patient to exercise and eat better, and send them off. Do you have an alternative to prescribing medication for type 2 diabetes and Crohn's? Do you think doctors should simply withhold care since it's their patients' faults that they have those conditions?
  • joshgel 9y ago
    Agree. My dad, also a physician, blames himself for being overweight. But if "everyone" is overweight, can it really be their fault? Surely "the system" has as much or more blame to share.
    • aviv 9y ago
      Your dad, Big Food, Big Pharma, MSM, his parents. The blame is in that order.
  • aviv 9y ago
    Sure, most physicians nowadays will mention to the patient that diet and exercise are beneficial, but at the same time will outright dismiss the critical role that diet specifically plays in curing the disease. Yes, the alternative is a 10 to 30 day water fast for both of those. I know several people that successfully cured both. Especially Crohn's, the amount of misinformation given by physicians is stunning and borderline criminal. $200K a year Remicade treatments GONE after 2 weeks of water fasting. Why would Big Pharma have any incentive to get this message out there? High blood pressure for example can be reversed entirely after 5 days of water fasting. Completely gone. I don't know how else to say it. I have first hand knowledge of many successful water fasts, but the medical world has brainwashed everyone to the point that I get shut down immediately in any social setting by even mentioning this. But that's okay. Not forcing anyone to do anything they don't believe in. All I can do is share my knowledge and point people in the right direction when they're ready.
    • joshgel 9y ago
      Prove it. In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded trial. There are plenty of quality and health savings organizations that would fund such a trial if there were any hint of benefit. But there isn't. I'm glad to hear that pseudo-science still gets shut down in social circumstances.
      • aviv 9y ago
        It is slowly trickling in. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-th... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/ I personally know multiple people that did listen to me and others who told them about the healing powers of a water fast, and cured their illnesses by doing it. There's really no downside. You are not "starving" yourself. That is such an insane myth. I myself did too - got rid of a bad arthritis in the knee that I've suffered from for years - just 20 days into a fast (this was 6 years ago, no inflammation of any kind since).
        • jakevn 9y ago
          So, no studies linked, just a quote collection and an interview?
          • aviv 9y ago
            I am not aware of any study (that has been made public, remember they always have that option at the end) by a pharmaceutical company or university that was set out to test whether water fasting for 5+ days is beneficial in treating or curing disease. Several reasons: 1. They conducted one, but didn't like the results. 2. "Don't ask what you don't want to know the answer to" applies here - there is ZERO benefit in discovering that water fasting indeed reverses diseases to which these entities have vested interest in keeping their symptoms a lifelong struggle to patients. Nothing good would come out of it for them. The entire modern medical business model would collapse. Tin foil hat? Sure, label me that. All I can do is drop tidbits that may be helpful to someone now or in the future. I already know that I've helped a couple dozen people personally in the last few years, myself included. Those people would still be in a very bad shape if they waited for government or pharma company to endorse what has already been proven to be used successfully for hundreds of years as a primary healing treatment.
  • fcarraldo 9y ago
    AFAIK, as a patient with Crohn’s, there is no evidence that any specific diet causes or cures Crohn’s disease. If you know of dietary restrictions which reduce risk of Crohn’s in the same manner as type 2 diabetes, please share it, as I know many people (both patients and physicians) that would be happy to help make lifestyle changes to cure their disease.
    • opportune 9y ago
      I agree, I was merely entertaining the parent's claim that Crohn's could be solved in that way. I'm sure he thinks Crohn's can be simply solved by going gluten/dairy free or by fasting.
      • aviv 9y ago
        Did you even see my reply? I don't "think" or speculate. I've seen it. 2 of them still take me out to lunch when I'm in town because I've changed their life with a simple suggestion which they took upon themselves to research further. It's all about a person's state of mind. If you want to be a slave to the systemic misinformation that's out there - sure, go ahead. If you want to explore alternative options that take away a physician's job security, all the power to you.
    • aviv 9y ago
      It's AFAYK because that's what you are being told currently. Who do you expect to show you the evidence that a 2-week water fast will cure your Crohn's? The company that makes Remicade which brings them up to $200K a year per patient? A university that gets funded by the government that is lobbied heavily by the pharma companies? Come on. Think about it. I already shared it - now it's up to you to pick it up from here and do your own research if you are interested. I've seen many who have stopped and reversed diseases including Crohn's using water fasting followed by a diet of mostly fruits and veggies.
      • fcarraldo 9y ago
        I’ve fasted for more than two weeks while suffering from a blockage large enough to prevent eating solid food. I still have Crohn’s. It’s possible and certainly important to manage inflammatory symptoms with diet, but unfortunately curing the disease through diet is just impossible. I’m glad it’s worked out for your friends. I just hope you aren’t preventing those with serious disease who need proper medical treatment from following through.
• joshgel 9y ago
  Before you become "so dismissive" of traditional physicians, you try getting someone to radically alter their lifestyle for the promise of potential benefit in 10-20 years. Even if you can point to a few people that have done it, I can point you to plenty of data that says it's really hard and most people can't. Even technology may not help: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2553448 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2553448. Edit: Also reversed is a pretty strong word. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that Crohn's can be cured with lifestyle change.
  • aviv 9y ago
    You haven't seen it because your traditional world of medicine does not include that group of people. I have. About a dozen of them. In fact, each Crohn's patient that I've seen undergo a fast 2 weeks or longer has not had any flare ups since. And completely stopped taking all medications and undergoing their usual treatments. (they do watch their diet after, mostly fruits and veggies). Lifestyle change alone will not cure it. It must be preceded by a proper water fast. Reversed IS a strong word, and very appropriate here.
  • tcj_phx 9y ago
    > try getting someone to radically alter their lifestyle for the promise of potential benefit in 10-20 years. There is an incredible amount of confusion with regard to appropriate lifestyle interventions. Part of the problem is that your predecessors' predecessors (doctors in the 1950's and 1960's) came up with some simplistic and wrong advice that never got properly withdrawn: the hazard of butter and the superiority of refined vegetable oil, the hazard of salt (farmers and veterinarians give animals salt licks), estrogen as "the female hormone" -> DES babies && prescription horse urine (PREMARIN is PREgnant MARes' urIN), etc. The American Heart Association still warns about saturated fat [0]. If science advances one funeral at a time, what can be done about organizations that insist on being wrong? [0] https://recipes.heart.org/Articles/1013/Healthy-Cooking-Oils https://recipes.heart.org/Articles/1013/Healthy-Cooking-Oils Modern medicine does have some good advice, but it's very tough to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think medical professionals are just as confused as everyone else. On Christmas I heard someone (a physician's assistant) recommend an erection-killing intervention to help stop her sister's boyfriend's hair loss [1]. [1] https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/news/20120413/propecia-proscar-new-sexual-dysfunction-warnings https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/news/20120413/propec... - this side effect might not be not universal, but is devastating to the men who suffer it. "Palliative" drugs are commonly used. This is essentially Elisabeth Rosenthal M.D.'s rule #2 for American medicine: "A lifetime of treatment is preferable to a cure." [2] [2] How Economic Incentives have Created our Dysfunctional US Medical Market - https://medium.com/@RosenthalHealth/how-economic-incentives-have-created-our-dysfunctional-us-medical-market-b681c51d6436 https://medium.com/@RosenthalHealth/how-economic-incentives-... Dr. Brewer's pregnancy diet is supposedly quite helpful for dealing with common pregnancy problems. Iirc, the core pillars of this diet are adequate protein and "salt to taste". But conventional medicine never figured this out for itself - I've met lots of women who suffered from dangerously-high blood pressure during their pregnancies. One's diet consisted of saltine crackers - she was nauseous, and had to have labor induced before the baby killed her. Appropriate lifestyle interventions start to benefit people right away. Coconut oil rapidly helps with alcohol cravings, for example. People can lose most of their excess weight over a period of 2-4 years. Pregnant women immediately benefit from adequate salt intake. Etc. Doctors are doing much better today than 50 or 100 years ago. I think the industry would greatly benefit from a critical examination of common practices.
• rco8786 9y ago
  Accusing physicians of being dismissive of nutrition by being dismissive of technology is sort of ironic, no?
  • aviv 9y ago
    The reason many physicians are dismissive of nutrition is because they only get about 20 hours of total education on the subject.
• darkerside 9y ago
  Sad that you get down voted when you make so many valid and useful points. Galileo was in the same boat at one time! I don't think you can blame traditional physicians. Most of them really didn't go to school for a decade to tell fat people to eat less. They want to solve medical problems, not play life coach. Maybe there is a role for technology here. People accept statements from a machine that they'd take great offense to in person. Maybe Siri would be a better entity to tell you you're fat and need to lose weight.
  • ams6110 9y ago
    Is this a new thing? When I was a kid, we still had what was called a "family doctor." I'm not sure these really exist anymore. He never hesitated to tell my mom she needed to lose weight or my dad he needed to stop smoking. Maybe the fact that he wasn't a specialist allowed him to be more practical with his advice.
    • grzm 9y ago
      From what I've seen, family doctors have been replaced by primary care physicians. There's still a place for generalists in the medical profession.
      • nradov 9y ago
        You've mixed up two separate concepts. Primary care physician is a role, not a specialty. Most PCPs specialize in family medicine, internal medicine, or pediatrics. The PCP acts as the patient's primary point of contact, leads the patient's care team, and makes referrals to specialists when necessary.
        • aviv 9y ago
          Effectively a PCP is a load balancer for the pharmaceutical industry, directing consumers to the appropriate pill pusher.
          • 9y ago
• dang 9y ago
  You broke the site guidelines by taking this thread into a flamewar and grossly overposting. We're trying for quality, not quantity, in discussion here—you went far in the other direction. You also broke the HN guidelines in other ways, like personal attacks and going on about comment voting. All of this is really bad. Please don't abuse the site like this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
• tim333 9y ago
  Well you can do both. There are apps to improve food habits as well as the other stuff.