7 ms·

These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. Situation in top tier colleges is

These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. Situation in top tier colleges is lot better. This can be seen from increase in placements in IITs this year.

adrya407 9y ago
>These people are mainly relatively unskilled Not only that I agree with that, but I'd like to add the fact that after 2 years of working in a team splitted in Romania and India, the working experience with Indian programmers is relatively difficult. It's not something isolated to an individual, all of my colleagues have been complaining that they would really like to work with someone else, but not from India. I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it.
- axiom92 9y ago
  > I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough, which in turn causes demotivation?
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Maybe it is something else, like the differing power-distance relationships that Americans and Indians have.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    I am part Indian (albeit ethnically, not culturally) and work in finance. I always had a great experience working with Indian bankers, investors and VCs. The stereotypes puzzled me. Then I spoke to a few IT outsourcing/consulting companies. It’s horrible. Starting sentences with “no” even when agreeing, jargon-laid bullshitting, lying about simple things, overt sexism (e.g. if my female colleague asks a question, the response is addressed to me), et cetera. I fully blame a small handful of firms for nurturing a toxic culture and then projecting it to the world. (Indian tech start-ups have, in my experience, a wonderful culture.)
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - hkmurakami 9y ago
      From the outside looking in ( and a handful of anecdotal encounters and work experiences) I feel like the educated Indian workforce is bifurcated between one cluster of brilliant hard working people and another cluster of... Bullshitters who try to project the visage of knowing what's going on. But maybe that's because for better or for worse India does have an articulate culture of speaking up for yourself, and these two outlier groups just become memorable.
      - shagie 9y ago
        It depends on what one's career goals are. From what I understand (I'm not Indian, but I've worked with many over the years), for a sizable portion of the workforce, the goal isn't to be senior programmer but rather management. The way you get to management is by having people report to you and then get a new job higher up on the ladder at another company (it is my understanding that promotions from within the company are difficult compared to hiring outsiders). One puts in time in grade, switching projects frequently to build up the resume. Unfortunately, this makes institutional knowledge at the client companies not something that is preserved easily. (anecdote: when I was laid off to be replaced by someone from India, the 12 years of how the system works was transferred in 4 weeks of 4h a day meetings, 5 days a week (that was painful)... keeping in touch with my old coworkers, the person who replaced me left 6 months later and explained everything about how my job worked and what they learned in just a few days... who left six months later and only did one day of information transfer) So, switch companies, go from developer to sr. developer in a year (2x 6 month projects) to team lead (with 5 people reporting - another year or so) to architect (with 3 team leads reporting - another year or so)... and you've got a manager. If someone is on the track "I want to be a manager", switching projects frequently and never actually diving too deeply into the project is probably the best approach. The technical people are harder to find. They're not switching jobs quickly and so they're unlikely to get hired into the project that the client sees. Maybe they're tapped as a "work on this 25%" but I know how that goes... it means one week out of the month you're catching up on everything for that project and trying to fend off context switches before you're not thinking about it for another month. For the technical people, many of them are able to find a visa and move to the US for some extended period of time. This contributes to a brain drain in India. Also the indentured servitude aspect of the H1B visa means that there is less mobility and again, its harder to meet these people in random places. They do exist - and I've worked with a number of them... but I've worked with far more people who are in a position for six months to a year and then moving on to another contract at another contracting company.
  - naravara 9y ago
    >Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough, which in turn causes demotivation? This. I had the same complaint about the India based team I had to work with, until one of them came on rotation to the states, we had a beer together, and he told me all about the working environment they have there. Nightmarish commutes, extremely nitpicky and punitive performance management, no commitment to career development, limited benefits, brutal hours, and meagre pay even adjusted for Indian CoL. Under those conditions, it's no wonder people were hard to work with. They were overworked, held to stupid performance metrics that demoralized them, and were under the boot of a "beatings will continue until morale improves" management style. If you hire based only on cost, nickel and dime each other to maximize your value for money in the short term, and generally treat your workforce like chattel, it shouldn't be surprising when they're disengaged and unable to be as forward leaning as you would like.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      Plus, massive turnover.
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    What makes you say this? Don't stereotypes come from something? Do you think it's a coincidence that a stereotypical Asian American is reserved, disciplined, and good at math, and that Asian Americans in America make considerably more than any other race[1]? Btw, "Cut the crap" is an unprofessional, unproductive way to start a conversation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_... Edit: To those downvoting me, can you please explain? What did I say in my post that was inaccurate?
    - spaceseaman 9y ago
      Stereotypes typically don't come from anything. The "stereotype" of an Asian male is someone who * can't talk to women * doesn't understand social skills * has poor hygiene / manners * values STEM above softer skills * values hard work and effort It's pointless to make these claims because such broad generalizations immediately break down the second you meet an Asian man. There's no way to know which (if any) of these stereotypes they uphold. Some of these sterotypes have a positive bend: Poor social skills imply that they are reserved. Valuing hard work makes you a disciplined person. etc. But these stereotypes are still bad. They lead people to make unfair assumptions about Asian men because they are Asian. There's plenty of literature out there about stereotypes and prejudice and especially about the "model minority" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority From there you may see why folks are downvoting you: > A common misconception is that the affected communities usually hold pride in their labeling as the model minority. The model minority stereotype is considered detrimental to relevant minority communities because it is used to justify the exclusion of minorities in the distribution of assistance programs, both public and private, as well as to understate or slight the achievements of individuals within that minority. Furthermore, the idea of the model minority pits minority groups against each other by implying that non-model groups are at fault for falling short of the model minority level of achievement and assimilation EDIT: And as a bonus (since that Wikipedia article is DAMN good) "Scientific studies have revealed that positive stereotypes have many negative and damaging consequences both socially and psychologically." The citations are in the article.
    - che_shirecat 9y ago
  - adrya407 9y ago
    Since you are an Indian too, I think your remarks are kind of subjective and your reply a bit harsh, but I'll add more facts that sustain my point of view. >Not working hard doesn't come from the culture Yes it truly does. Since every individual has inherited from the environment and has been cultured that he needs to do just what he is told (the minimum), this is how he grows. >Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough You can't hide behind your finger with this excuse. If you want a raise you tend to work harder, do the extra mile, you defenly don't get a raise by doing the minimum. Also, if you are good at what you are doing but you are not happy with the salary then why accept the job in first place?
    - just_saying_it 9y ago
      Assigning attributes to an entire country based on experience with a few people is poor logic. It is the same if someone worked with a few people at Google India or one of the IITs, and claimed all Indians are super smart and it comes from their culture.
    - newusertoday 9y ago
      how do you explain the anamoly of indians in virtually all top jobs from ceo's of microsoft,google,pepsi etc. to pulitzer winners? while i agree with you that culture does impacts work but may be its not "indian" culture and more of a "company"culture. Having said that i don't see any contribution of india in sports, i don't know why.
      - aslkdjaslkdj 9y ago
        Their main national sport (cricket) is really only played in handful of countries. And in those countries (AU/NZ) soccer is still more popular.
      - wolco 9y ago
        They are one of the top nations for cricket. Famous stars like Sachin Tendulkar, Mahendra Singh Dhoni or Dada - Sourav Ganguly Checkout youtube for some amazing highlights.
  - rconti 9y ago
    Yup. First company I worked for had a team in India and they couldn't do a damn thing. The next company had some REALLY great talent in India. Having local managers helped. Paying market rate instead of bottom dollar helped. Another problem with outsourcing to India is now so many companies do it just because XYZ other company does it -- no regard for quality. Just copying the moves someone else does isn't enough. You need to understand WHY and HOW to do it well.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      Managers at the level that makes that decision get bonuses for cost cutting. The cheaper the firm, the bigger the bonus. By the time the house of cards crashed, it either wasn't their crash (sales problem) or they've jumped ship to cost-cut at another company.
  - digitalzombie 9y ago
    > Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. Actually, I know this is anecdote but my buddy was an manager type position moved up from software and he had to deal with Indians. He had to go over cultural slides to how to deal with Indians and the slide explicitly talk about their world ethnics and how their culture view time. The time slide was super interesting and the few thing I recall from it. It was talking about setting time line for the offshore team. And when they say they will have it done, it can mean anything, and that you have to have them to explicitly state a real date. I'm not trying to shoot ya down or anything, just wanted to point out another experience in culture. The slides he showed me was suppose to be on the downlow too >___<. But the whole thing is about how to manage Indian programmers and many aspect of it was dealing with culture or how culture affects their actions.
- throwaway_7777 9y ago
  You interacted with a few people, and now you can say that a culture/country of 1.3 billion people "are not used to work hard or something willingly"! Wow!
- cjsawyer 9y ago
  Don’t stereotype an entire country of people. That said, the Indians I have worked with were diligent workers who all but ignored instructions. They produced lots of work but most of it was not to spec. It was only a few groups though so I really can't speak with any scale backing me up.
  - adrya407 9y ago
    >These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. Please follow the discussion, I was talking only about the fresh graduates and entry-level employees, I was not at all stereotyping the whole country. On the contrary I find them a pretty impressive nation with outstanding potential in the next century.
    - hesarenu 9y ago
      >Yes it truly does. Since every individual has inherited from the environment and has been cultured that he needs to do just what he is told (the minimum), this is how he grows. that is stereotyping at its worst.
  - rectangletangle 9y ago
    Especially a country as particularly large and diverse as India. Each state is nearly it's own country from a linguistic, historical, and cultural standpoint. It's almost as overgeneralized as referring to all Africans, or Europeans as some sort of collective. I'd almost consider India along the same lines as the entire EU.
- Krakatauer 9y ago
  I might be able to provide some insight. In my MSc program, we had a number of Indian students. The students who were expected by their parents to become computer scientists had much worse attitudes and were much harder to work with than the ones who were doing it on their own initiative. I was told becoming a computer professional is something parents pressure their offspring to do, and this could be the root cause of this phenomenon.
- mythrwy 9y ago
  I'd sure hate to be judged by the "Average" American.
  - negativ0 9y ago
    american people who judge indians is pathetic, and the fact the they feel "superior" is really funny. i bet that with the same education an indian is way more smart than an american. most of the comments in this thread are bullshit.
- blattimwind 9y ago
  A fun fact, if you may. Every company doing actual, industrial field work has huge problems finding people who are willing to do field work at Indian plants (and are qualified, obviously). If you know a field guy, ask him if he has had any experience there. Industry doesn't really matter...
  - gregmac 9y ago
    For those of us who don't know any field guys with experience in India, can you elaborate?
- carlsborg 9y ago
  Google and Microsoft and even trading firms like DE Shaw for example have hundreds of engineers in India. Hiring talent is difficult at smaller outsourcing shops, the economics demands that you hire at low wages. Your perspective is severely limited.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    Yep, any Indian with decent would have long run away from sweet shop to go to a software company.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      I know you meant sweat shop, but I find the typo hilarious.
- saurabhnanda 9y ago
  Just curious -- were the two team (Romania vs India) working on the same project? Were you paying them the same money? Did the team members have the same number of years in experience (in absence of a better comparitive metric)?
pksadiq 9y ago
> These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. I guess the best interview should also add a touch-type test and the candidate should require at least 30wpm or so (if typing is very much required for the work). When I was at college I have only seen less than 5 such students from the 250 total.
- Clubber 9y ago
  That's my secret tell to see if someone is a good, experienced developer or not. I've never met a good, experienced developer who was a slow typist.
  - EmployedRussian 9y ago
    > I've never met a good, experienced developer who was a slow typist. You will. There is a reason "fast typist" was not a required skill in any software jobs I've ever applied for, and I doubt developer strength has any correlation with typing speed.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      It's not that fast typist is an indicator of a good developer, but a slow typist is an indicator of someone who hasn't spent a whole lot of time in front of a keyboard.
      - hungryfoolish 9y ago
        Or they have some motor disabilities in their arm/hand, which you should check for before making a judgement. Some people have carpal tunnel, some people have tremors, some people might have other condition they might not have even know themselves or would like to talk about openly.
        Clubber 9y ago
        Or if they don't have any fingers.
adrya407 9y ago
>This can be seen from increase in placements in IITs this year. That's probably because they are pushed by their families, "go and study IT, this is the best paid job at the moment". That doesn't mean that the value, skills, abilities of the new graduates will increase, I tend to believe the opposite.
- whitenoice 9y ago
  What do you mean by pushed by their families? You don't seem to have a good understanding of educational institutions in India. IIT entrance exams are one of the toughest exams out there. Please read this page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Entrance_Examination_–_Advanced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Entrance_Examination_–_A... So even if families pressure their kids, they will not be able to get an admission in these institutes unless they demonstrate required skills. Here are past exam papers - https://www.jeeadv.ac.in/Archives-Past-Que-papers.html https://www.jeeadv.ac.in/Archives-Past-Que-papers.html For value, skill, and ability, please google the research done by the students at these universities and the firms that hire these students.
ntnn 9y ago
Mainly relatively unskilled is an understatement. I have a bit of contact with DXC (based in bulgaria, iirc) through a customer. We usually get someone with 'expert X' or 'senior Y' as a job title who lack the most basic skills in debugging and problem solving. It mostly ends in them 'taking a break' (during the call) and in the end we have to do their job. I don't take an issue with doing their job, but I'm still baffled how DXC can function like that.
kamaal 9y ago
>>Situation in top tier colleges is lot better. Situation there is even more worse. Most of them are job hoppers who hop job after job. Most people from IITs I know don't even a single full project on their resume.

adrya407 9y ago

>These people are mainly relatively unskilled Not only that I agree with that, but I'd like to add the fact that after 2 years of working in a team splitted in Romania and India, the working experience with Indian programmers is relatively difficult. It's not something isolated to an individual, all of my colleagues have been complaining that they would really like to work with someone else, but not from India. I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it.

axiom92 9y ago
> I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough, which in turn causes demotivation?
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Maybe it is something else, like the differing power-distance relationships that Americans and Indians have.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  I am part Indian (albeit ethnically, not culturally) and work in finance. I always had a great experience working with Indian bankers, investors and VCs. The stereotypes puzzled me. Then I spoke to a few IT outsourcing/consulting companies. It’s horrible. Starting sentences with “no” even when agreeing, jargon-laid bullshitting, lying about simple things, overt sexism (e.g. if my female colleague asks a question, the response is addressed to me), et cetera. I fully blame a small handful of firms for nurturing a toxic culture and then projecting it to the world. (Indian tech start-ups have, in my experience, a wonderful culture.)
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    From the outside looking in ( and a handful of anecdotal encounters and work experiences) I feel like the educated Indian workforce is bifurcated between one cluster of brilliant hard working people and another cluster of... Bullshitters who try to project the visage of knowing what's going on. But maybe that's because for better or for worse India does have an articulate culture of speaking up for yourself, and these two outlier groups just become memorable.
    - shagie 9y ago
      It depends on what one's career goals are. From what I understand (I'm not Indian, but I've worked with many over the years), for a sizable portion of the workforce, the goal isn't to be senior programmer but rather management. The way you get to management is by having people report to you and then get a new job higher up on the ladder at another company (it is my understanding that promotions from within the company are difficult compared to hiring outsiders). One puts in time in grade, switching projects frequently to build up the resume. Unfortunately, this makes institutional knowledge at the client companies not something that is preserved easily. (anecdote: when I was laid off to be replaced by someone from India, the 12 years of how the system works was transferred in 4 weeks of 4h a day meetings, 5 days a week (that was painful)... keeping in touch with my old coworkers, the person who replaced me left 6 months later and explained everything about how my job worked and what they learned in just a few days... who left six months later and only did one day of information transfer) So, switch companies, go from developer to sr. developer in a year (2x 6 month projects) to team lead (with 5 people reporting - another year or so) to architect (with 3 team leads reporting - another year or so)... and you've got a manager. If someone is on the track "I want to be a manager", switching projects frequently and never actually diving too deeply into the project is probably the best approach. The technical people are harder to find. They're not switching jobs quickly and so they're unlikely to get hired into the project that the client sees. Maybe they're tapped as a "work on this 25%" but I know how that goes... it means one week out of the month you're catching up on everything for that project and trying to fend off context switches before you're not thinking about it for another month. For the technical people, many of them are able to find a visa and move to the US for some extended period of time. This contributes to a brain drain in India. Also the indentured servitude aspect of the H1B visa means that there is less mobility and again, its harder to meet these people in random places. They do exist - and I've worked with a number of them... but I've worked with far more people who are in a position for six months to a year and then moving on to another contract at another contracting company.
- naravara 9y ago
  >Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough, which in turn causes demotivation? This. I had the same complaint about the India based team I had to work with, until one of them came on rotation to the states, we had a beer together, and he told me all about the working environment they have there. Nightmarish commutes, extremely nitpicky and punitive performance management, no commitment to career development, limited benefits, brutal hours, and meagre pay even adjusted for Indian CoL. Under those conditions, it's no wonder people were hard to work with. They were overworked, held to stupid performance metrics that demoralized them, and were under the boot of a "beatings will continue until morale improves" management style. If you hire based only on cost, nickel and dime each other to maximize your value for money in the short term, and generally treat your workforce like chattel, it shouldn't be surprising when they're disengaged and unable to be as forward leaning as you would like.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Plus, massive turnover.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  What makes you say this? Don't stereotypes come from something? Do you think it's a coincidence that a stereotypical Asian American is reserved, disciplined, and good at math, and that Asian Americans in America make considerably more than any other race[1]? Btw, "Cut the crap" is an unprofessional, unproductive way to start a conversation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_... Edit: To those downvoting me, can you please explain? What did I say in my post that was inaccurate?
  - spaceseaman 9y ago
    Stereotypes typically don't come from anything. The "stereotype" of an Asian male is someone who * can't talk to women * doesn't understand social skills * has poor hygiene / manners * values STEM above softer skills * values hard work and effort It's pointless to make these claims because such broad generalizations immediately break down the second you meet an Asian man. There's no way to know which (if any) of these stereotypes they uphold. Some of these sterotypes have a positive bend: Poor social skills imply that they are reserved. Valuing hard work makes you a disciplined person. etc. But these stereotypes are still bad. They lead people to make unfair assumptions about Asian men because they are Asian. There's plenty of literature out there about stereotypes and prejudice and especially about the "model minority" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority From there you may see why folks are downvoting you: > A common misconception is that the affected communities usually hold pride in their labeling as the model minority. The model minority stereotype is considered detrimental to relevant minority communities because it is used to justify the exclusion of minorities in the distribution of assistance programs, both public and private, as well as to understate or slight the achievements of individuals within that minority. Furthermore, the idea of the model minority pits minority groups against each other by implying that non-model groups are at fault for falling short of the model minority level of achievement and assimilation EDIT: And as a bonus (since that Wikipedia article is DAMN good) "Scientific studies have revealed that positive stereotypes have many negative and damaging consequences both socially and psychologically." The citations are in the article.
  - che_shirecat 9y ago
- adrya407 9y ago
  Since you are an Indian too, I think your remarks are kind of subjective and your reply a bit harsh, but I'll add more facts that sustain my point of view. >Not working hard doesn't come from the culture Yes it truly does. Since every individual has inherited from the environment and has been cultured that he needs to do just what he is told (the minimum), this is how he grows. >Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough You can't hide behind your finger with this excuse. If you want a raise you tend to work harder, do the extra mile, you defenly don't get a raise by doing the minimum. Also, if you are good at what you are doing but you are not happy with the salary then why accept the job in first place?
  - just_saying_it 9y ago
    Assigning attributes to an entire country based on experience with a few people is poor logic. It is the same if someone worked with a few people at Google India or one of the IITs, and claimed all Indians are super smart and it comes from their culture.
  - newusertoday 9y ago
    how do you explain the anamoly of indians in virtually all top jobs from ceo's of microsoft,google,pepsi etc. to pulitzer winners? while i agree with you that culture does impacts work but may be its not "indian" culture and more of a "company"culture. Having said that i don't see any contribution of india in sports, i don't know why.
    - aslkdjaslkdj 9y ago
      Their main national sport (cricket) is really only played in handful of countries. And in those countries (AU/NZ) soccer is still more popular.
    - wolco 9y ago
      They are one of the top nations for cricket. Famous stars like Sachin Tendulkar, Mahendra Singh Dhoni or Dada - Sourav Ganguly Checkout youtube for some amazing highlights.
- rconti 9y ago
  Yup. First company I worked for had a team in India and they couldn't do a damn thing. The next company had some REALLY great talent in India. Having local managers helped. Paying market rate instead of bottom dollar helped. Another problem with outsourcing to India is now so many companies do it just because XYZ other company does it -- no regard for quality. Just copying the moves someone else does isn't enough. You need to understand WHY and HOW to do it well.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Managers at the level that makes that decision get bonuses for cost cutting. The cheaper the firm, the bigger the bonus. By the time the house of cards crashed, it either wasn't their crash (sales problem) or they've jumped ship to cost-cut at another company.
- digitalzombie 9y ago
  > Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. Actually, I know this is anecdote but my buddy was an manager type position moved up from software and he had to deal with Indians. He had to go over cultural slides to how to deal with Indians and the slide explicitly talk about their world ethnics and how their culture view time. The time slide was super interesting and the few thing I recall from it. It was talking about setting time line for the offshore team. And when they say they will have it done, it can mean anything, and that you have to have them to explicitly state a real date. I'm not trying to shoot ya down or anything, just wanted to point out another experience in culture. The slides he showed me was suppose to be on the downlow too >___<. But the whole thing is about how to manage Indian programmers and many aspect of it was dealing with culture or how culture affects their actions.
throwaway_7777 9y ago
You interacted with a few people, and now you can say that a culture/country of 1.3 billion people "are not used to work hard or something willingly"! Wow!
cjsawyer 9y ago
Don’t stereotype an entire country of people. That said, the Indians I have worked with were diligent workers who all but ignored instructions. They produced lots of work but most of it was not to spec. It was only a few groups though so I really can't speak with any scale backing me up.
- adrya407 9y ago
  >These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. Please follow the discussion, I was talking only about the fresh graduates and entry-level employees, I was not at all stereotyping the whole country. On the contrary I find them a pretty impressive nation with outstanding potential in the next century.
  - hesarenu 9y ago
    >Yes it truly does. Since every individual has inherited from the environment and has been cultured that he needs to do just what he is told (the minimum), this is how he grows. that is stereotyping at its worst.
- rectangletangle 9y ago
  Especially a country as particularly large and diverse as India. Each state is nearly it's own country from a linguistic, historical, and cultural standpoint. It's almost as overgeneralized as referring to all Africans, or Europeans as some sort of collective. I'd almost consider India along the same lines as the entire EU.
Krakatauer 9y ago
I might be able to provide some insight. In my MSc program, we had a number of Indian students. The students who were expected by their parents to become computer scientists had much worse attitudes and were much harder to work with than the ones who were doing it on their own initiative. I was told becoming a computer professional is something parents pressure their offspring to do, and this could be the root cause of this phenomenon.
mythrwy 9y ago
I'd sure hate to be judged by the "Average" American.
- negativ0 9y ago
  american people who judge indians is pathetic, and the fact the they feel "superior" is really funny. i bet that with the same education an indian is way more smart than an american. most of the comments in this thread are bullshit.
blattimwind 9y ago
A fun fact, if you may. Every company doing actual, industrial field work has huge problems finding people who are willing to do field work at Indian plants (and are qualified, obviously). If you know a field guy, ask him if he has had any experience there. Industry doesn't really matter...
- gregmac 9y ago
  For those of us who don't know any field guys with experience in India, can you elaborate?
carlsborg 9y ago
Google and Microsoft and even trading firms like DE Shaw for example have hundreds of engineers in India. Hiring talent is difficult at smaller outsourcing shops, the economics demands that you hire at low wages. Your perspective is severely limited.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Yep, any Indian with decent would have long run away from sweet shop to go to a software company.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    I know you meant sweat shop, but I find the typo hilarious.
saurabhnanda 9y ago
Just curious -- were the two team (Romania vs India) working on the same project? Were you paying them the same money? Did the team members have the same number of years in experience (in absence of a better comparitive metric)?

pksadiq 9y ago

> These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. I guess the best interview should also add a touch-type test and the candidate should require at least 30wpm or so (if typing is very much required for the work). When I was at college I have only seen less than 5 such students from the 250 total.

Clubber 9y ago
That's my secret tell to see if someone is a good, experienced developer or not. I've never met a good, experienced developer who was a slow typist.
- EmployedRussian 9y ago
  > I've never met a good, experienced developer who was a slow typist. You will. There is a reason "fast typist" was not a required skill in any software jobs I've ever applied for, and I doubt developer strength has any correlation with typing speed.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    It's not that fast typist is an indicator of a good developer, but a slow typist is an indicator of someone who hasn't spent a whole lot of time in front of a keyboard.
    - hungryfoolish 9y ago
      Or they have some motor disabilities in their arm/hand, which you should check for before making a judgement. Some people have carpal tunnel, some people have tremors, some people might have other condition they might not have even know themselves or would like to talk about openly.
      - Clubber 9y ago
        Or if they don't have any fingers.

adrya407 9y ago

>This can be seen from increase in placements in IITs this year. That's probably because they are pushed by their families, "go and study IT, this is the best paid job at the moment". That doesn't mean that the value, skills, abilities of the new graduates will increase, I tend to believe the opposite.

whitenoice 9y ago
What do you mean by pushed by their families? You don't seem to have a good understanding of educational institutions in India. IIT entrance exams are one of the toughest exams out there. Please read this page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Entrance_Examination_–_Advanced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Entrance_Examination_–_A... So even if families pressure their kids, they will not be able to get an admission in these institutes unless they demonstrate required skills. Here are past exam papers - https://www.jeeadv.ac.in/Archives-Past-Que-papers.html https://www.jeeadv.ac.in/Archives-Past-Que-papers.html For value, skill, and ability, please google the research done by the students at these universities and the firms that hire these students.

ntnn 9y ago

Mainly relatively unskilled is an understatement. I have a bit of contact with DXC (based in bulgaria, iirc) through a customer. We usually get someone with 'expert X' or 'senior Y' as a job title who lack the most basic skills in debugging and problem solving. It mostly ends in them 'taking a break' (during the call) and in the end we have to do their job. I don't take an issue with doing their job, but I'm still baffled how DXC can function like that.

kamaal 9y ago

>>Situation in top tier colleges is lot better. Situation there is even more worse. Most of them are job hoppers who hop job after job. Most people from IITs I know don't even a single full project on their resume.