4 ms·

I can find plenty of sources saying that it isn’t profitable (there are too many to list here). I did look after reading his comment and found exactly 0 credib

I can find plenty of sources saying that it isn’t profitable (there are too many to list here). I did look after reading his comment and found exactly 0 credible sources showing that it is currently profitable without subsidies today, and I looked again after reading your comment and still found nothing even when using the exact search you suggested. In fact the entire SERP for the one you suggested, with the exception of one article that suggests that offshore wind power might soon be profitable, has links to articles essentially saying that wind power is economically doomed. Am I (along with the rest of the world, who would be dancing in the streets, dedicating trillions of dollars to deploying wind towers in every corner of the earth at this very moment, and writing thousands of credible articles about how the world’s energy problems have been solved if this were true) missing something? Edit: the green folks are coming in and downvoting these comments like crazy. Could one of you please justify your downvote by replying with a link to a credible article that shows wind energy to be profitable without subsidies in non-exceptional places? I think everyone would love to see it, including myself! Google doesn’t seem to know about this very special, world-changing article. Perhaps it is protected with an overly aggressive robots.txt.

lowracle 9y ago
I'm sorry you are getting downvoted, maybe it is because of your tone, but coming from someone with an impartial and uneducated view about the subject, it seems like you made a pretty good point.
- downandout 9y ago
  Believe it or not, I am impartial in this area as well and in fact would love to see renewable energy sources rolled out broadly if and when they are economically competitive with traditional sources. This article just struck a nerve with me because I hate seeing political propaganda masquerading as legitimate news, on either side of the aisle. They have an agenda, and are pushing it with misleading articles (as the parent comment I initially replied to pointed out). They are insulting the intelligence of everyone that reads it.
analyzethis 9y ago
Article is in Danish: https://ing.dk/blog/nye-normal-uden-spoergsmaalstegn-209443 https://ing.dk/blog/nye-normal-uden-spoergsmaalstegn-209443
- downandout 9y ago
  I don’t speak Danish, and the Google translation isn’t that great, but when I said credible, a random Danish blog wasn’t really what I was referring to. I was talking about something in a major publication. Economically competitive wind power would be an earth shattering development. If it exists, there would be articles about it everywhere. Everyone on HN would be getting jobs at wind farm startups, and trillions of investment would be pouring in. Venture capitalists would be walking the streets to find wind farm entrepreneurs that have hidden their contact info because of the overwhelming number of term sheets being thrown at them. Bakeries throughout the Valley would be offering turbine-shaped gluten-free cupcakes to VC’s, who would include them with their hand-delivered term sheets in hopes that theirs gets a little bit of extra attention from picky entrepreneurs. I want it to exist too, I just see no evidence that it does.
  - jmiserez 9y ago
    Does it really need to be profitable on it’s own though? Renewable energy has a lot less external costs, i.e. negative effects such as global warming, pollution, etc. On a national or global scale, these costs should be accounted for in any study comparing economical competitiveness. Just looking at the balance sheets of energy companies and their costs vs. income is a bit short-sighted.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > Does it really need to be profitable on it’s own though? If it’s unprofitable it needs to be subsidised. That’s not bad per se. But you can’t run around arguing it’s profitable when it doesn’t appear to be.
  - analyzethis 9y ago
    Read the link. It contains more than enough hard info for anyone with a real interest in the subject to look up a few things and become a whole lot wiser. Also, he's not a total rando; he is a wind power pioneer and was the CTO of Siemens Wind Power until 2014. Look him up at Wikipedia - there's an article in English.
ljf 9y ago
https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/wind/for-the-first-time-wind-power-will-be-profitable-without-subsidies https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/wind/for-the-first-time...
- downandout 9y ago
  If these projects actually come to fruition and achieve their target costs, that would be amazing. However, it appears that they are not yet online, and so nobody knows if they will actually achieve the costs they think they will. So far in this field, projections have not met up with reality.
  - ljf 9y ago
    If they bid for this work that is all they will be paid for the energy. So if they fail it is their own loss
    - rayiner 9y ago
      That’s not the same thing as being profitable now is it. Power companies go over budget all the time on builds.
  - justaduder 9y ago
    Many of these people are the same ones who believe Tesla can build profitable $35,000 cars because the CEO said so, despite evidence of billions in losses (and subsidies).
cowsandmilk 9y ago
In Texas, it most definitely is profitable and businesses are dedicating billions of dollars to building wind power. Unsubsidized costs for wind in Texas are currently $32-62/MWH vs. coal at $60-143[1]. Texas is hardly an environmentalist mecca, just a place with good wind and lots of cheap, open land to build wind farms. [1] https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2017/10/13/texas-largest-power-generator-speeds-coals-decline-closure-two-plants https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2017/10/13/texas-...

lowracle 9y ago

I'm sorry you are getting downvoted, maybe it is because of your tone, but coming from someone with an impartial and uneducated view about the subject, it seems like you made a pretty good point.

downandout 9y ago
Believe it or not, I am impartial in this area as well and in fact would love to see renewable energy sources rolled out broadly if and when they are economically competitive with traditional sources. This article just struck a nerve with me because I hate seeing political propaganda masquerading as legitimate news, on either side of the aisle. They have an agenda, and are pushing it with misleading articles (as the parent comment I initially replied to pointed out). They are insulting the intelligence of everyone that reads it.

analyzethis 9y ago

Article is in Danish: https://ing.dk/blog/nye-normal-uden-spoergsmaalstegn-209443 https://ing.dk/blog/nye-normal-uden-spoergsmaalstegn-209443

downandout 9y ago
I don’t speak Danish, and the Google translation isn’t that great, but when I said credible, a random Danish blog wasn’t really what I was referring to. I was talking about something in a major publication. Economically competitive wind power would be an earth shattering development. If it exists, there would be articles about it everywhere. Everyone on HN would be getting jobs at wind farm startups, and trillions of investment would be pouring in. Venture capitalists would be walking the streets to find wind farm entrepreneurs that have hidden their contact info because of the overwhelming number of term sheets being thrown at them. Bakeries throughout the Valley would be offering turbine-shaped gluten-free cupcakes to VC’s, who would include them with their hand-delivered term sheets in hopes that theirs gets a little bit of extra attention from picky entrepreneurs. I want it to exist too, I just see no evidence that it does.
- jmiserez 9y ago
  Does it really need to be profitable on it’s own though? Renewable energy has a lot less external costs, i.e. negative effects such as global warming, pollution, etc. On a national or global scale, these costs should be accounted for in any study comparing economical competitiveness. Just looking at the balance sheets of energy companies and their costs vs. income is a bit short-sighted.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > Does it really need to be profitable on it’s own though? If it’s unprofitable it needs to be subsidised. That’s not bad per se. But you can’t run around arguing it’s profitable when it doesn’t appear to be.
- analyzethis 9y ago
  Read the link. It contains more than enough hard info for anyone with a real interest in the subject to look up a few things and become a whole lot wiser. Also, he's not a total rando; he is a wind power pioneer and was the CTO of Siemens Wind Power until 2014. Look him up at Wikipedia - there's an article in English.

ljf 9y ago

https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/wind/for-the-first-time-wind-power-will-be-profitable-without-subsidies https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/wind/for-the-first-time...

downandout 9y ago
If these projects actually come to fruition and achieve their target costs, that would be amazing. However, it appears that they are not yet online, and so nobody knows if they will actually achieve the costs they think they will. So far in this field, projections have not met up with reality.
- ljf 9y ago
  If they bid for this work that is all they will be paid for the energy. So if they fail it is their own loss
  - rayiner 9y ago
    That’s not the same thing as being profitable now is it. Power companies go over budget all the time on builds.
- justaduder 9y ago
  Many of these people are the same ones who believe Tesla can build profitable $35,000 cars because the CEO said so, despite evidence of billions in losses (and subsidies).

cowsandmilk 9y ago

In Texas, it most definitely is profitable and businesses are dedicating billions of dollars to building wind power. Unsubsidized costs for wind in Texas are currently $32-62/MWH vs. coal at $60-143[1]. Texas is hardly an environmentalist mecca, just a place with good wind and lots of cheap, open land to build wind farms. [1] https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2017/10/13/texas-largest-power-generator-speeds-coals-decline-closure-two-plants https://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2017/10/13/texas-...