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An attempt by Google to take over the Adblocking market and thus maintain their own whitelist which will obviously not block Adsense ads. I have already moved o

An attempt by Google to take over the Adblocking market and thus maintain their own whitelist which will obviously not block Adsense ads. I have already moved over to firefox

Dylan16807 9y ago
> maintain their own whitelist which will obviously not block Adsense ads You make this sound like some kind of trick. The stated goal is to block especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. I can't say if it's going to be fair or not, but the way it treads adsense specifically isn't going to be the deciding factor.
- ivanbakel 9y ago
  >The stated goal is to block especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. Either way you think the relation goes probably depends on your opinion of Google, but I would take this as thinking backwards. Google has lots of interest in preventing Adsense from being blocked as part of some broad-stroke policy, so everything they do as part of their adblocking policy has that in mind - wherever users prefer the Chrome native policy, Google wins. Whatever criteria gets picked for the adblocker is going to fit Adsense pretty well, or else Google loses. If Adsense, and the ad revenue model, weren't deciding factors in introducing these partial blockers in the first place, Google wouldn't be taking the steps to implement one.
  - jacques_chester 9y ago
    Put another way, this is an example of standard Google strategy: defend and control the approaches to the advertising river of gold. Chrome was itself just such an investment. By controlling a major browser (eventually, the dominant browser), they can prevent Mozilla or Microsoft from cutting them out. Now they want to prevent the increasing pool of ad blockers from freezing out adsense. Happily for Google, this means that advertisers will prioritise advertising through them, as they will only be guaranteed to show up in Chrome if they use adsense. Their next step will be to bundle Contributor with Chrome. Again, by happy coincidence, this blocks out anyone else from getting a good run at microsubscription. Last I checked, the design is intended to be revenue-neutral for Google. Disclosure: I have been working on a business, Robojar, intended to remove advertising and bypass paywalls in exchange for microsubscriptions. Google have a very similar model in Contributor.
    - Dylan16807 9y ago
      > Disclosure: I have been working on a business, Robojar, intended to remove advertising and bypass paywalls in exchange for microsubscriptions. Google have a very similar model in Contributor. Good luck! I love the idea of micropayments from a fixed budget to support sites, but Contributor's bidding-based system was not a good path at all. > they will only be guaranteed to show up in Chrome if they use adsense That's the worst-case scenario, as far as power abuse here. But they might be fair! We'll have to see.
      - jacques_chester 9y ago
        I want to give Google the credit for a conceptually elegant approach that will slot neatly into the existing bidding system. But it seems to think of humans and adtech bidding ecosystems as identical economic agents. If we're all perfect consumers, sure, the system converges to an equilibrium. That seems like a mighty generous "if". It's already annoying to manage the mental cost of schemes like Patreon's. How much more annoying is to have to forecast, several weeks in advance, a bidding system that settles in milliseconds, millions of times per minute? It's worth noting that I may be misunderstanding or misrepresenting the nuances and design of the Contributor scheme. I'm a potential competitor, my remarks ought to be look on skeptically. But likewise I ask people to follow the money. Cui bono? In this case: Google.
        Dylan16807 9y ago
        My main objection to the bidding system is not even the unpredictability, but that it rewards the wrong things. I don't want to pay more to a site that happens to have car insurance ads. I don't want to pay less to a site that installed fewer banners. ...hang on, when did google contributor relaunch as a service that pays per-page-load, is opt-in per domain, and is basically useless? Google, you manage to do youtube red just fine. Try harder.
        jacques_chester 9y ago
        Oh wow, you're right. The model has gotten even more cognitively expensive. This somewhat widens my ray of hope.
- NelsonMinar 9y ago
  Adsense ads may or may not be obnoxious, that's a matter of aesthetic preference. But they are definitely effective. Part of why I block ads is I don't want those commercial interests changing the way I think.
- saas_co_de 9y ago
  > You make this sound like some kind of trick That is what it is
- kodablah 9y ago
  > especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. That's your opinion, not everyone's. Luckily I'll easily be able to use what meets my definition of obnoxious with this feature (i.e. custom lists for this native blocker) instead of yours or this consortium's, right?
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    I'm interested to hear your definition of "especially obnoxious" ads that fits adsense. And no, "all ads" doesn't count. Unless adsense has gotten worse since I last looked? I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the advertising space.
    - kodablah 9y ago
      > And no, "all ads" doesn't count Says who? You? Google? A consortium of advertising companies?
      - Dylan16807 9y ago
        Because it's meaningless to define "especially obnoxious X" to be the same thing as "all X". If you do that, you're not even trying to engage in a discussion, you're just trying to 'win'. I thought it was clear that I was separating ads into multiple categories. If you tell me you honestly don't understand then I will reword it in other terms for you. Let me know what you need.
on_and_off 9y ago
I might be the only one here but I have been waiting for a long time for something similar to what Google is attempting to do here. I don't want to block ALL ads. Only the annoying ones (mostly popup and popunder). I am ok with being displayed ads by defaults for the sites I consult (especially the ones I like) since it is an acceptable form of micropayment (I should mention that I don't see ads no youtube since I pay for play music). Sadly, such a selective ad blocking takes time to setup and maintain and with the extensions I always end up realizing that I have been blocking ads on one of my favorite sites for months.
- kodablah 9y ago
  I'm confused. You used an example of not realizing you were blocking ads from a site to support a less transparent blocking approach? Why can't you just take the list from this better-ads program and use it in your extension? (And if you can't, think about why you can't) I can't figure out whether your problem is with the current crop of extensions or the filter lists. Regardless of which it is, I'm not sure your concerns will be alleviated by unnecessarily-built-in, likely non-extensible, likely non-customizable blocker using an opaque set of filters.
  - on_and_off 9y ago
    Depends on how these filters are configured. Again, I just want something that blocks mischievous ads and lets everything else in. I don't know whether Google will achieve this but I am willing to give it a try. To be honest, I am disillusioned with the extensions I have tried that seem all lacking because they are only here to support a racket like business model where you pay to get whitelisted.
    - kodablah 9y ago
      > Depends on how these filters are configured. What I'm saying is you probably can't configure them to your liking. Otherwise, they'd just give us a filter list for our existing extensions. Do you support hidden lists over visible ones? > To be honest, I am disillusioned with the extensions I have tried that seem all lacking because they are only here to support a racket like business model where you pay to get whitelisted. The most popular among tech circles, uBlock Origin, does not suffer from this. I am disappointed that you only tried ones that are corruptible and then had those experiences lead you to look forward to a more opaque solution by an ad company. Yet I fear this is why Google will succeed.

An attempt by Google to take over the Adblocking market and thus maintain their own whitelist which will obviously not block Adsense ads. I have already moved over to firefox

Dylan16807 9y ago

> maintain their own whitelist which will obviously not block Adsense ads You make this sound like some kind of trick. The stated goal is to block especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. I can't say if it's going to be fair or not, but the way it treads adsense specifically isn't going to be the deciding factor.

ivanbakel 9y ago
>The stated goal is to block especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. Either way you think the relation goes probably depends on your opinion of Google, but I would take this as thinking backwards. Google has lots of interest in preventing Adsense from being blocked as part of some broad-stroke policy, so everything they do as part of their adblocking policy has that in mind - wherever users prefer the Chrome native policy, Google wins. Whatever criteria gets picked for the adblocker is going to fit Adsense pretty well, or else Google loses. If Adsense, and the ad revenue model, weren't deciding factors in introducing these partial blockers in the first place, Google wouldn't be taking the steps to implement one.
- jacques_chester 9y ago
  Put another way, this is an example of standard Google strategy: defend and control the approaches to the advertising river of gold. Chrome was itself just such an investment. By controlling a major browser (eventually, the dominant browser), they can prevent Mozilla or Microsoft from cutting them out. Now they want to prevent the increasing pool of ad blockers from freezing out adsense. Happily for Google, this means that advertisers will prioritise advertising through them, as they will only be guaranteed to show up in Chrome if they use adsense. Their next step will be to bundle Contributor with Chrome. Again, by happy coincidence, this blocks out anyone else from getting a good run at microsubscription. Last I checked, the design is intended to be revenue-neutral for Google. Disclosure: I have been working on a business, Robojar, intended to remove advertising and bypass paywalls in exchange for microsubscriptions. Google have a very similar model in Contributor.
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    > Disclosure: I have been working on a business, Robojar, intended to remove advertising and bypass paywalls in exchange for microsubscriptions. Google have a very similar model in Contributor. Good luck! I love the idea of micropayments from a fixed budget to support sites, but Contributor's bidding-based system was not a good path at all. > they will only be guaranteed to show up in Chrome if they use adsense That's the worst-case scenario, as far as power abuse here. But they might be fair! We'll have to see.
    - jacques_chester 9y ago
      I want to give Google the credit for a conceptually elegant approach that will slot neatly into the existing bidding system. But it seems to think of humans and adtech bidding ecosystems as identical economic agents. If we're all perfect consumers, sure, the system converges to an equilibrium. That seems like a mighty generous "if". It's already annoying to manage the mental cost of schemes like Patreon's. How much more annoying is to have to forecast, several weeks in advance, a bidding system that settles in milliseconds, millions of times per minute? It's worth noting that I may be misunderstanding or misrepresenting the nuances and design of the Contributor scheme. I'm a potential competitor, my remarks ought to be look on skeptically. But likewise I ask people to follow the money. Cui bono? In this case: Google.
      - Dylan16807 9y ago
        My main objection to the bidding system is not even the unpredictability, but that it rewards the wrong things. I don't want to pay more to a site that happens to have car insurance ads. I don't want to pay less to a site that installed fewer banners. ...hang on, when did google contributor relaunch as a service that pays per-page-load, is opt-in per domain, and is basically useless? Google, you manage to do youtube red just fine. Try harder.
        jacques_chester 9y ago
        Oh wow, you're right. The model has gotten even more cognitively expensive. This somewhat widens my ray of hope.
NelsonMinar 9y ago
Adsense ads may or may not be obnoxious, that's a matter of aesthetic preference. But they are definitely effective. Part of why I block ads is I don't want those commercial interests changing the way I think.
saas_co_de 9y ago
> You make this sound like some kind of trick That is what it is
kodablah 9y ago
> especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. That's your opinion, not everyone's. Luckily I'll easily be able to use what meets my definition of obnoxious with this feature (i.e. custom lists for this native blocker) instead of yours or this consortium's, right?
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  I'm interested to hear your definition of "especially obnoxious" ads that fits adsense. And no, "all ads" doesn't count. Unless adsense has gotten worse since I last looked? I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the advertising space.
  - kodablah 9y ago
    > And no, "all ads" doesn't count Says who? You? Google? A consortium of advertising companies?
    - Dylan16807 9y ago
      Because it's meaningless to define "especially obnoxious X" to be the same thing as "all X". If you do that, you're not even trying to engage in a discussion, you're just trying to 'win'. I thought it was clear that I was separating ads into multiple categories. If you tell me you honestly don't understand then I will reword it in other terms for you. Let me know what you need.

on_and_off 9y ago

I might be the only one here but I have been waiting for a long time for something similar to what Google is attempting to do here. I don't want to block ALL ads. Only the annoying ones (mostly popup and popunder). I am ok with being displayed ads by defaults for the sites I consult (especially the ones I like) since it is an acceptable form of micropayment (I should mention that I don't see ads no youtube since I pay for play music). Sadly, such a selective ad blocking takes time to setup and maintain and with the extensions I always end up realizing that I have been blocking ads on one of my favorite sites for months.

kodablah 9y ago
I'm confused. You used an example of not realizing you were blocking ads from a site to support a less transparent blocking approach? Why can't you just take the list from this better-ads program and use it in your extension? (And if you can't, think about why you can't) I can't figure out whether your problem is with the current crop of extensions or the filter lists. Regardless of which it is, I'm not sure your concerns will be alleviated by unnecessarily-built-in, likely non-extensible, likely non-customizable blocker using an opaque set of filters.
- on_and_off 9y ago
  Depends on how these filters are configured. Again, I just want something that blocks mischievous ads and lets everything else in. I don't know whether Google will achieve this but I am willing to give it a try. To be honest, I am disillusioned with the extensions I have tried that seem all lacking because they are only here to support a racket like business model where you pay to get whitelisted.
  - kodablah 9y ago
    > Depends on how these filters are configured. What I'm saying is you probably can't configure them to your liking. Otherwise, they'd just give us a filter list for our existing extensions. Do you support hidden lists over visible ones? > To be honest, I am disillusioned with the extensions I have tried that seem all lacking because they are only here to support a racket like business model where you pay to get whitelisted. The most popular among tech circles, uBlock Origin, does not suffer from this. I am disappointed that you only tried ones that are corruptible and then had those experiences lead you to look forward to a more opaque solution by an ad company. Yet I fear this is why Google will succeed.