3 ms·

> What causes negative prices? > Basically, when the supply of power outstrips demand for it. What does this even mean? Why would demand for being paid to use

by runeks 9y ago

> What causes negative prices? > Basically, when the supply of power outstrips demand for it. What does this even mean? Why would demand for being paid to use power be finite? It doesn’t make sense to view demand as separate from the price of consumption.

rayiner 9y ago
I'll ship you 100 tons of refined uranium, and I'll pay you $50 for it. But you've gotta be able to take delivery in the next 20 minutes.
- runeks 9y ago
  Are you trying to make the point that consuming electricity is as difficult as storing uranium? I’m not making a general statement about negative prices. I’m making a statement about being paid to connect a resistor to the end of a power cord.
  - luispedrocoelho 9y ago
    Not as difficult, but consuming large amounts of energy on short notice is also not trivial. "connect a resistor to the end of a power cord" is supposed to make it sound trivial, but operating the resistors needed for absorbing the extra power on the grid is a large scale operation with non-trivial safety concerns. Also, you need to own and maintain all that equipment, &c &c.
  - marcosdumay 9y ago
    Of course it's much easier. If it was as difficult there would be big companies living just on properly getting rid of electricity. But it being easier does not make it free. The price is negative exactly because it costs the generating company something to put a resistor at their side. If you have a resistor around that is cheaper, you can get some nice payment out of using it.
    - runeks 9y ago
      Why doesn’t the power producer just disconnect the generator from the grid? A turbine spinning isn’t a problem in and of itself. I don’t disagree with you in theory, but in practice I don’t believe that it’s cheaper to send out power over the grid, and pay people to consume it, than it is to just not produce it in the first place.
      - marcosdumay 9y ago
        The spinning energy MUST be consumed. Otherwise the turbine will accelerate until it breaks, what may take a block away from some city. Powering down generators take some time, and powering them back up costs quite a bit (both vary widely from one tech to another). For short durations it is just cheaper to pay somebody to take the energy.
- coding123 9y ago
  Someone needs to make a movie about this. Obviously starring Jason Statham.

by runeks 9y ago

rayiner 9y ago

I'll ship you 100 tons of refined uranium, and I'll pay you $50 for it. But you've gotta be able to take delivery in the next 20 minutes.

runeks 9y ago
Are you trying to make the point that consuming electricity is as difficult as storing uranium? I’m not making a general statement about negative prices. I’m making a statement about being paid to connect a resistor to the end of a power cord.
- luispedrocoelho 9y ago
  Not as difficult, but consuming large amounts of energy on short notice is also not trivial. "connect a resistor to the end of a power cord" is supposed to make it sound trivial, but operating the resistors needed for absorbing the extra power on the grid is a large scale operation with non-trivial safety concerns. Also, you need to own and maintain all that equipment, &c &c.
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  Of course it's much easier. If it was as difficult there would be big companies living just on properly getting rid of electricity. But it being easier does not make it free. The price is negative exactly because it costs the generating company something to put a resistor at their side. If you have a resistor around that is cheaper, you can get some nice payment out of using it.
  - runeks 9y ago
    Why doesn’t the power producer just disconnect the generator from the grid? A turbine spinning isn’t a problem in and of itself. I don’t disagree with you in theory, but in practice I don’t believe that it’s cheaper to send out power over the grid, and pay people to consume it, than it is to just not produce it in the first place.
    - marcosdumay 9y ago
      The spinning energy MUST be consumed. Otherwise the turbine will accelerate until it breaks, what may take a block away from some city. Powering down generators take some time, and powering them back up costs quite a bit (both vary widely from one tech to another). For short durations it is just cheaper to pay somebody to take the energy.
coding123 9y ago
Someone needs to make a movie about this. Obviously starring Jason Statham.